Yuri_Yslin wrote on 2024-05-19, 10:09:

I want to avoid retro tax as much as possible. There are some Pentium3 rigs available locally but there is usually very little i […]
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I want to avoid retro tax as much as possible. There are some Pentium3 rigs available locally but there is usually very little info on the CPU itself - and windows manager doesn't show the model either.

For example, there's a rig sold for about 80 $ here (Europe) that has a Pentium3 and a Geforce2 MX 440 on board. The seller listed the P3 as "550MHz".

I already have some of the rig pieces (actually, I have the worst one done - that is, a 21" Trinitron CRT) and I also have some of the GPUs (FX 5500 with a 128bit memory lane and MSI 4200Ti, which I purchased for 8$ and 25$, respectively; also a Sound blaster Live! that I found in my drawer). I am missing the rig itself, and probably a good GPU, since FX5500 is weak and the 4200Ti seems to be a lower end model MSI/Medion.

Looking for recommendations. The rig is meant to be a gaming machine for Win95-98 era of games. I already have a 486DX rig so DOS compatibility is not an issue.

I think most Pentium IIIs you're likely to encounter will be of the Coppermine variety, which is honestly perfectly fine. Only the very earliest stuff (450-500 MHz) were Katmai. Unless you want the highest tier P3 (1 GHz or above), you should have no trouble finding an inexpensive setup. i44oBX-based motherboards have the best performance with SD-RAM, but you'll have to pick the video card carefully if your processor uses a 133 MHz FSB (which results in overclocking the AGP-bus).

Some manufacturers from the time have weird out-of-spec cases, motherboards, and power supplies, so avoid those if you can.

The Ti4200 is a mid-tier GF4, and is way, way faster than a 440MX, for example - so has more than enough oomph for all late 90's/early 00's games and will pair nicely with an under-appreciated 650-733 MHz P3.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

The one I noticed has a ASUSa P2B-AE board, and 128 gigs of RAM. Looking good?

Katmai went all the way to 600 MHz, so up to 600, it may be either Katmai or Coppermine, with the latter being preferred in my opinion. Also Coppermine goes all the way down to 500, so the only ones to be certain of, are the 450 -> Katmai and 650+ -> Coppermine

Yuri_Yslin wrote on 2024-05-19, 10:39:

Thank you, that's very helpful.

The one I noticed has a ASUSa P2B-AE board, and 128 gigs of RAM. Looking good?

Must be 128 megs 😉

The Medion Geforce 4200Ti is my personal favorite: The cooler is robust and silent and they are relatively cheap.
As for the ASUSa P2B-AE you mention: I don't like it at all. It is from a Sony Viao, the documentation is not available and there are no BIOS updates. Without the original case you would have to guess the front panel IO.

Katmai core is essentially just a Pentium II.

Dorunkāku wrote on 2024-05-19, 11:18:

As for the ASUSa P2B-AE you mention: I don't like it at all. It is from a Sony Viao, the documentation is not available and there are no BIOS updates. Without the original case you would have to guess the front panel IO.

And no ISA...

(Isn't ISA a main reason to go 440BX/Slot 1 rather than, say, i815/Socket 370?)

Dorunkāku wrote on 2024-05-19, 11:18:

Without the original case you would have to guess the front panel IO.

There you go: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-p2b-ae-1.02#docs, page 64.

Yuri_Yslin wrote on 2024-05-19, 10:09:

I also have some of the GPUs (FX 5500 with a 128bit memory lane and MSI 4200Ti, which I purchased for 8$ and 25$, respectively; also a Sound blaster Live! that I found in my drawer). I am missing the rig itself, and probably a good GPU, since FX5500 is weak and the 4200Ti seems to be a lower end model MSI/Medion.

That GeForce4 Ti 4200 is fine for Windows 98 games, much better than any GeForce2 MX or 4 MX cards in terms of performance and features.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-05-19, 11:26:

Katmai core is essentially just a Pentium II.

A Deschutes core with SSE instructions, albeit not being good as Coppermine or later CPUs due to constrains during the design.

Thank you guys. The motherboard issues you mention feel a tad discouraging, which is a bit of a shame, since the case is in really good shape and not yellowed at all.

For 100$ (or 20$ more) I could get this one instead:

https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/pentium-iii-800mh … 99-IDYW21y.html

However, the seller does insist on picking it up in person, which is rather lame, since he's from another city and I'm not sure if I'll convince him.

Also the case is fugly. Not the most important thing, but...

Yuri_Yslin wrote on 2024-05-19, 16:14:

Thank you guys. The motherboard issues you mention feel a tad discouraging, which is a bit of a shame, since the case is in real […]
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Thank you guys. The motherboard issues you mention feel a tad discouraging, which is a bit of a shame, since the case is in really good shape and not yellowed at all.

For 100$ (or 20$ more) I could get this one instead:

https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/pentium-iii-800mh … 99-IDYW21y.html

However, the seller does insist on picking it up in person, which is rather lame, since he's from another city and I'm not sure if I'll convince him.

Also the case is fugly. Not the most important thing, but...

VIA chipset, too, which is... interesting. Not sure how people feel about that chipset on a retro system...

VivienM wrote on 2024-05-19, 16:39:

Yuri_Yslin wrote on 2024-05-19, 16:14:

Thank you guys. The motherboard issues you mention feel a tad discouraging, which is a bit of a shame, since the case is in real […]
Show full quote

Thank you guys. The motherboard issues you mention feel a tad discouraging, which is a bit of a shame, since the case is in really good shape and not yellowed at all.

For 100$ (or 20$ more) I could get this one instead:

https://www.olx.pl/d/oferta/pentium-iii-800mh … 99-IDYW21y.html

However, the seller does insist on picking it up in person, which is rather lame, since he's from another city and I'm not sure if I'll convince him.

Also the case is fugly. Not the most important thing, but...

VIA chipset, too, which is... interesting. Not sure how people feel about that chipset on a retro system...

And specifically the Apollo Pro 133...oof. That being said though, OP shouldn't dismiss VIA chips imo. I've read good things about the Apollo Pro133A (yet to try it myself) and I personally run an ASUS CUV266 with the Apollo Pro 266 for Win98, which has been rock solid for me. Going with right VIA chip might even save OP a few bucks (euro).

For that kind of money, there is an Abit BX133-RAID listed on the "biggest auction site". The seller is from Poland, so maybe you could work out some sort of a deal.
It has a broken plastic tab on the socket that could possibly be worked around with a cooler that has all three hooks on that side, though I'm not 100% sure.

Otherwise, it's looking pretty grim, because all of the 440BX classics (such as the Asus P2B, P2B-F, P3B-F, CUBX, Abit BE6, BH6, Gigabyte GA-6BXC, GA-BX2000...) seem to be listed for $100+.
I would either go for one of those or a VIA 694T board with an ISA slot if you want official (and effortless) Tualatin support. Some examples are the QDI Advance 10T, Abit VH6T, or DFI CA64, but these are even more expensive.

All in all, the ASUS P2B-AE might not be that bad, but if it has a proprietary/custom BIOS, CPU support is questionable.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2024-05-19, 13:32:

A Deschutes core with SSE instructions, albeit not being good as Coppermine or later CPUs due to constrains during the design.

Coppermine was a major improvement in many directions, including SSE support.

watson wrote on 2024-05-19, 17:31:

For that kind of money, there is an Abit BX133-RAID listed on the "biggest auction site". The seller is from Poland, so maybe yo […]
Show full quote

For that kind of money, there is an Abit BX133-RAID listed on the "biggest auction site". The seller is from Poland, so maybe you could work out some sort of a deal.
It has a broken plastic tab on the socket that could possibly be worked around with a cooler that has all three hooks on that side, though I'm not 100% sure.

Otherwise, it's looking pretty grim, because all of the 440BX classics (such as the Asus P2B, P2B-F, P3B-F, CUBX, Abit BE6, BH6, Gigabyte GA-6BXC, GA-BX2000...) seem to be listed for $100+.
I would either go for one of those or a VIA 694T board with an ISA slot if you want official (and effortless) Tualatin support. Some examples are the QDI Advance 10T, Abit VH6T, or DFI CA64, but these are even more expensive.

All in all, the ASUS P2B-AE might not be that bad, but if it has a proprietary/custom BIOS, CPU support is questionable.

Truth be told, every board is gonna go upwards of $100+. People caught on that their dusty mid-late 90s PC may be worth $$$ and it's only gonna get worse.

PcBytes wrote on 2024-05-19, 18:40:

Truth be told, every board is gonna go upwards of $100+. People caught on that their dusty mid-late 90s PC may be worth $$$ and it's only gonna get worse.

US$100 is way too much for a Slot 1 or Socket 370 motherboard. Even the ones I pass on are listed for the equivalent of US$25 where I live.

GemCookie wrote on 2024-05-19, 19:27:

US$100 is way too much for a Slot 1 or Socket 370 motherboard.

While that may be true, it's not unusual anymore. I consider the Abit VH6T one of the best retro motherboards out there, good luck getting one for 100$. That's already very cheap, especially here in Europe.

Limited supply and an increasing demand have driven prices up.

Some specific models are sought after, but average 440BX mobos, which are not praised by overclockers, aren't that pricy. There's no hype about Acorp and Chaintech motherboards, for example.

PcBytes wrote on 2024-05-19, 18:40:

Truth be told, every board is gonna go upwards of $100+. People caught on that their dusty mid-late 90s PC may be worth $$$ and it's only gonna get worse.

Retrocomputing seems to be everywhere now... e.g. Linus Tech Tips on YouTube, which normally talks about new stuff, just did a video today about a 2001 vintage P4 build.

At least the angle they took was 'let's build some magazine's super-duper-high-end system from 2001' rather than 'let's build the greatest Win98 SE system ever'...