Samir wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

Samir wrote:

One idea that I used to use back in the day for converting various signals was a VCR with composite inputs. Then the output could be the regular coax on channel 3 or 4. Using a coax to rgb modulator, you can probably get this to work on modern tvs.

I suspect that if this produced acceptable output, then cheap composite-to-component converters would be commonplace.

There's just not enough demand for it. It's easier to have a coax to rgb converter since there's a ton of electronics that used coax. A compositve adapter would be too niche.

Have you actually seen this in action?

I'm not sure about the quality, but since these are typically used in security camera installations, it can't be terrible.

Security cameras tend to have very different requirements than a console gamer with an HDTV.

If someone is serious about upscaling consoles for use with modern tvs then you really need this: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/framemeister.html
Else just a random eBay upscaler with random results. Since DK wants composite then a cheap eBay one is not such a bad idea IMHO.

I had the X-RGB2 and X-RGB3 units in the past, they had some awesome features for their time but the new mini is way better and gaming oriented.
Although 95% of the tvs sold here have scart I don't really like flat panels nowdays for old stuff... I just use trinitron crts.

Jorpho wrote:

Have you actually seen this in action?

Security cameras tend to have very different requirements than a console gamer with an HDTV.

Yep. There's no HDTV tuners that output vga anymore. Why? Because while an old 1024x768 monitor was being thrown out as a computer and actually made a really nice 720p display, it wasn't mainstream. The product is hard to find now. Same for such a device.

I did some quick searches and luckily the manufacturers got smart and starting making universal converters that convert anything to hdmi. There's a bit pricy though and doesn't exactly give component outputs, although it solves the problem.

Security camera video requirements have much more stringent requirements than video games, hence it should be okay for gaming use as well. I'm sure my Atari 2600 would look just great running through the same RF converter that our security cameras use.

Good point about the interlacing keropi. But doing straight analog conversions from one format to another shouldn't get into that, like you said about the ebay adapter. Trinitrons rule! I still have my 19" Sony from 20 years ago and still love it.

Samir wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

Have you actually seen this in action?

Security cameras tend to have very different requirements than a console gamer with an HDTV.

Yep. There's no HDTV tuners that output vga anymore. Why? Because while an old 1024x768 monitor was being thrown out as a computer and actually made a really nice 720p display, it wasn't mainstream. The product is hard to find now. Same for such a device.

What? Let's try this again: have you actually seen a composite signal (i.e. what comes out of the red, white, and yellow connectors used by a typical older video game console) changed into RF and then changed into RGB component signals on an HD display? (I hope you're not confusing RF with RGB BNC connectors.)

Security camera video requirements have much more stringent requirements than video games, hence it should be okay for gaming use as well.

Maybe some video cameras have stringent requirements.

A very good device is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqW03NvDXmY

This guy reviewed a ton of scalers.

BUT they all need RGB modified consoles to achieve best IQ.

An RGB mega drive for example with the framemeister will look terrific on a flat TV. It does the scanlines as well.

I highly doubt security cameras having strictest reqs than a gaming environment.
First of all noone cares about image processing lag on a security camera. Sure you can grab some nicely detailed shots of the place you are monitoring but you don't expect a 60fps stream with little to none lag so it is usable... That reason alone is enough to ditch the whole idea.

edit:
@mau
I have seen this video long ago, I really hate the parts where he burps etc... I mean c'mon... you are doing a vid to show the world... 😵

Anyone who's into stuff like this should pick up a CRT instead of going for expensive scalers. Nobody wants CRTs nowadays so you can pick them up for free locally, even big ones. Just thinking about the amount of pefectly working CRT TVs/monitors being thrown away in favor of inferior LCDs...

d1stortion wrote:

Nobody wants CRTs nowadays so you can pick them up for free locally, even big ones. Just thinking about the amount of pefectly working CRT TVs/monitors being thrown away in favor of inferior LCDs...

The day you have to move them is the day they cease to have superiority.

^ weight superiority? 🤣 🤣 🤣

That are just the things you have to deal with if you are passionate about a hobby... I don't hear anyone working on vintage cars and complaining about getting dirty.

But, to be fair, a scaler is probably a great investment too... however, most people won't be content with playing on a 24" PC monitor. And good LCD TVs aren't cheap. Those run-of-the-mill "full HD" panels are useless for gaming. I don't want horrendous ghosting and bad colors, let alone on a 32-40" screen...

main problem is cost ... take for example the xrgb mini which is the best choice one can make without spending a hefty amount of money: it still costs 300+ eur and you will also need a d-terminal->component adapter cable and a japanese-scart->EU scart adapter that also has a sync-stripper inside. Getting these stuff is another 80-90eur easily. Then to get the most you would need rgb scart cables for your consoles... and mod the ones you need to mod. :\

Jorpho wrote:

What? Let's try this again: have you actually seen a composite signal (i.e. what comes out of the red, white, and yellow connectors used by a typical older video game console) changed into RF and then changed into RGB component signals on an HD display? (I hope you're not confusing RF with RGB BNC connectors.)

Security camera video requirements have much more stringent requirements than video games, hence it should be okay for gaming use as well.

Maybe some video cameras have stringent requirements.

Yes, you take the red to red (r audio), white to white (l audio), yellow to yellow (video). Then you use the vcr's tuner to select that particular input. The output will be rf on channel 3 or 4. Take that into an rf to RGB component adapter and you should have a fully analog conversion. If the set tries to do anything funny with the interlacing, then it's the tv as the signal you're giving it is the real-deal analog.

An composite to RF converter actually doesn't do anything but modulate the signal to a particular frequency (hence a channel). It's not doing anything to inheritly change the signal, so just a quality converter would be all that's needed.

Samir wrote:

Yes, you take the red to red (r audio), white to white (l audio), yellow to yellow (video). Then you use the vcr's tuner to select that particular input. The output will be rf on channel 3 or 4. Take that into an rf to RGB component adapter and you should have a fully analog conversion.

😒 I understand that. I am asking if this is something you seen in action yourself or if this is merely something you think "should" work.

If the set tries to do anything funny with the interlacing, then it's the tv as the signal you're giving it is the real-deal analog.

Uh, if the set tries to do something funny with it, then what good is it?

An composite to RF converter actually doesn't do anything but modulate the signal to a particular frequency (hence a channel).

You're going from three separate inputs to one, and you're saying it doesn't do anything?

d1stortion wrote:

Anyone who's into stuff like this should pick up a CRT instead of going for expensive scalers. Nobody wants CRTs nowadays so you can pick them up for free locally, even big ones. Just thinking about the amount of pefectly working CRT TVs/monitors being thrown away in favor of inferior LCDs...

It's always bothered me when perfectly good electronics are literally thrown away for 'new'. I mean, there's millions of people in the third world that would love to have a 36" Trinitron. Too bad there's no way to solve the issue of logistics. 😒

Jorpho wrote:

:blah: I understand that. I am asking if this is something you seen in action yourself or if this is merely something you think […]
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Samir wrote:

Yes, you take the red to red (r audio), white to white (l audio), yellow to yellow (video). Then you use the vcr's tuner to select that particular input. The output will be rf on channel 3 or 4. Take that into an rf to RGB component adapter and you should have a fully analog conversion.

😒 I understand that. I am asking if this is something you seen in action yourself or if this is merely something you think "should" work.

If the set tries to do anything funny with the interlacing, then it's the tv as the signal you're giving it is the real-deal analog.

Uh, if the set tries to do something funny with it, then what good is it?

An composite to RF converter actually doesn't do anything but modulate the signal to a particular frequency (hence a channel).

You're going from three separate inputs to one, and you're saying it doesn't do anything?

I've done every part of this except the RF to component since I haven't needed to. But since I've recommended this type of conversion to others in a professional capacity (I was one of the leads in digital connections for LG's us support center), it shouldn't be an issue or I would have had a callback.

True that if the tv does something with it, then it's useless. But not all televions are the same. If a particular set doesn't work right, does that nullify the idea for everyone?

You've combining audio and video that was split otherwise. You'll always get better quality with completely separated signals--hell, you can even divide rgb down to 5 signals when you separate out the horizontal and vertical syncs. But in the days of video that either came out composite or rf, there wasn't much of a difference. And with modern composite to rf adapters having more applications (like security cameras), quality has become better. Could you pick it apart with a digital probe? Probably. Will you notice it? Possibly. Will it impair you from enjoying the game? Absolutely not.

keropi wrote:

I highly doubt security cameras having strictest reqs than a gaming environment. First of all noone cares about image processin […]
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I highly doubt security cameras having strictest reqs than a gaming environment.
First of all noone cares about image processing lag on a security camera. Sure you can grab some nicely detailed shots of the place you are monitoring but you don't expect a 60fps stream with little to none lag so it is usable... That reason alone is enough to ditch the whole idea.

edit:
@mau
I have seen this video long ago, I really hate the parts where he burps etc... I mean c'mon... you are doing a vid to show the world... 😵

True that when frame rates are low like on 7-14 frame/sec systems, you don't need those requirements--except that the converter doesn't care about that. Its job is to convert an analog signal to another one, so frame rates, resolution, etc (all part of digital conversions) don't really matter here. In the analog world, good converters have proper sheilding and enginnering, etc. I'm confused on the 60fps? What system had a composite connector with a 60fps output?

Samir wrote:

But in the days of video that either came out composite or rf, there wasn't much of a difference. And with modern composite to rf adapters having more applications (like security cameras), quality has become better. Could you pick it apart with a digital probe? Probably. Will you notice it? Possibly. Will it impair you from enjoying the game? Absolutely not.

Tell that to some of the enthusiasts in the modding community and I'm sure they will have a very interesting opinion of your "professional capacity".

Jorpho wrote:

Samir wrote:

But in the days of video that either came out composite or rf, there wasn't much of a difference. And with modern composite to rf adapters having more applications (like security cameras), quality has become better. Could you pick it apart with a digital probe? Probably. Will you notice it? Possibly. Will it impair you from enjoying the game? Absolutely not.

Tell that to some of the enthusiasts in the modding community and I'm sure they will have a very interesting opinion of your "professional capacity".

Like yours? I could care less for your opinion. You've been attacking me and impolite from your very first post. Obviously you didn't find any help in my suggestions. Maybe someone more enlightened will.

Samir wrote:

Like yours? I could care less for your opinion. You've been attacking me and impolite from your very first post. Obviously you didn't find any help in my suggestions.

You have admitted that you are making suggestions on the basis of something you have not personally experienced. Unless you know that routing a composite signal through a VCR and subsequently through an RF-to-RGB component adapter somehow produces a superior picture than the original composite, you should qualify your suggestion accordingly.

I'll shut up now.

Jorpho wrote:

Samir wrote:

Like yours? I could care less for your opinion. You've been attacking me and impolite from your very first post. Obviously you didn't find any help in my suggestions.

You have admitted that you are making suggestions on the basis of something you have not personally experienced. Unless you know that routing a composite signal through a VCR and subsequently through an RF-to-RGB component adapter somehow produces a superior picture than the original composite, you should qualify your suggestion accordingly.

I'll shut up now.

And just because I haven't done it 'myself with my own two bare hands' doesn't mean the idea doesn't work for those that I've recommended it to. You negate that, which brings information to the topic at hand, and instead you act like like a forum troll. Good job.