Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Files, FAQs, and other things to help you get your games running before you start asking questions.

Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby DarkTemplar » 2013-12-23 @ 13:30

Is anyone willed to share an "ready to use" package of this? I don't have the knowledge to do this on my own, even though I have various WIndows 95 versions laying around here. And I am eager to test this :)
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jorpho » 2013-12-23 @ 16:19

DarkTemplar wrote:Is anyone willed to share an "ready to use" package of this?
That would be illegal.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 01:38

truth5678 wrote:Had success in installing a minimal 95b with D-tools and required updates. Modified Jarvik7's excellent setup files so that 95b works with D-tools and its required updates (for example, the spooler is required by DX6.1; also, IE4 was missing required components for installation).


Just took a quick look at this set of diffs. Some of the changes seem to be due to the difference between B and C Windows, and are not changes I made. I don't know if that will cause any problems though.

I just tried to install dtools 3.47 on my win95c with my original edits, and the installer doesn't even open. No error or anything, just nothing happens (though it stays running in task manager). Did you use daemon347.exe? Might be due to not having MSI, but it should at least throw an error.

-Update-
This may help working around IE4 requirements:
http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/116260- ... t-sh95upd/

-Update2-
I got directx6.1 installed without the spooler. All you have to do is directly open the directx installer instead of the launch exe. It's the launcher that needs spooler, not setup. dxdiag's 3d acceleration test passes.

By the way, the modified S3 driver is not correct. It does not offer 1024x768 16bit, although that works with the default windows driver. It does fix the dos box though.

The modified SB16 driver is also not correct. In dxdiag, DirectMusic and most of the directsound tests are garbled.
Dosbox force quit after exiting dxdiag too. We're going to need more work on drivers.

-Update3-
DTools wants the usb supplement even on Win95C (its not installed by default after all, it's just on the CD). The usb supplement install insists on running scandisk, which I've stripped from setup, so I just temporarily renamed notepad.exe scandskw.exe and it continued fine. Also, MSI doesn't need to be installed it seems. I'm now going to try working around IE4.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 03:57

You've made good progress, thank you for finding additional solutions! I'll download the 95 shell update tool and test it against d-tools.

Also, in your case, I am somewhat sure that d-tools is missing "riched32.dll" in the /windows/system/ directory. It can be found in the #5 CAB file, at least it is true for 95b.

Great work on the dxsetup workaround, too. I'll revert back to no spooler, saving time during setup and many files and settings.

For the custom S3 driver, I purposely disabled all resolutions above 800x600. It would not be that necessary for 9x gaming and, in my thinking, the scalers are better suited for stretching the window size (of course the use of the shell and apps are a different matter).

The modified SB16 driver is 95b specific; it may not work in 95c. It does pass all dxdiag tests in B, too.

As you must have noted, I did enable back the scandisk for that exact reason (USB supp. update). However, your solution is a good workaround for that requirement. We could probably slipstream a 0 byte file for scandisk, I suppose. Scandisk doesn't appear that friendly to the disk image in 16-bit compatibility mode anyways. However, MSI (Installer 2.0?) is not actually required? Very promising results.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 04:11

Using an old version of filemon, it tries to access a bunch of files like setupapi.dll, cabinet.dll, winspool.drv, cfgmgr32.dll, riched32.dll, but I just threw them in the same directory as the daemon347.exe file and it succeeds accessing them.
I'm still trying to work around the IE4 requirement, so I don't know if that is sufficient.

re: scandisk, a 0 byte file may or may not work. I think it's waiting for a return value from the application saying it ran successfully (installation never continued until I exited notepad), so it might need a valid executable.

re: 1024x768, yeah, it's useful for the shell and I don't think having it in the driver would detract from anything.

re: IE4, there are no access failures in filemon, so it doesn't want additional files, just different ones...

Hopefully someone will make good progress towards atapi emulation and get it into daum svn, then we won't need to deal with daemon tools and potential blacklists against it.
Last edited by Jarvik7 on 2013-12-24 @ 04:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 04:23

I don't have any recent practice with filemon, but your use of it is promising. I also didn't consider testing d-tools with the library files and drivers in its directory. :) That is a great idea; also, it sounds like missing registry entries may not necessarily cause a problem with d-tools.

Perhaps scandisk could be replaced by a file that closes automatically?

The ATAPI emulation is working well for single CD games. I believe it is fully working for this case. Also, the swap disk should work for CD audio. The only missing component, although I didn't test fully, is for multiple CD games and their installation especially. However, I would think this problem will present itself infrequently, and in these cases d-tools is a backup. It is also good for long file name CDs, unless the 32-bit mode access proves reliable as noted in a post above. Additionally, the recent CD audio code is not in the Daum build yet.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 04:37

Success!

Extract the ie4 setup exe to a temp dir.
Extract all the cabs from that into the same dir
Extract all the cabs from THAT into the same dir
Extract the msi2 install exe to that dir
Copy riched32.dll and winspool.drv to that dir
Copy Daemon tools' installer to that dir
Run daemon347.exe
Reboot
Delete the temp dir
Enjoy, nothing needed to be installed and nothing that was removed from my trimmed infs were needed (aside from riched32.dll and winspool.drv for a few seconds) - meaning scsi isn't needed either.

-Update-
Dtools wants msi.dll even after installation, copy it to \windows\system

You may want to make a vogons wiki page about the install procedure..

-Update-
sadface :( Weezer's video isn't on the win95c disk.

-Update-
Some IE-esque folders are created (like favorites), but IE4 itself is not installed, so can delete.
Windows folder is about 50mb: Windows+DX6+sb16/voodoo/s3 drivers+dtools. No hand deleting.

I haven't tested CDDA yet, since I don't have an iso with audio available at work.

re: scandisk, yup, a simple exe that does nothing but return is enough.

-Update-
Found a bug.
If you mount a disc, reboot, then try to access my computer (etc), then windows will freeze up. You must unmount the iso before you do anything after booting. Until the cause is found, I have made a shortcut in the startup folder that runs the daemon tools exe with "-unmount 0" as a parameter, unmounting the disc on boot. Simply disabling automount causes windows to freeze at shutdown.
Does this happen to your "properly installed" dtools?

After a reboot I'm down to 48mb c:\windows, with mplayer, av codecs, volume control, sample sounds, cd player options installed. Still no hand-deletions.

Last challenge left for me is finding/hacking better drivers I guess. I readded 1024*768*16, but S3's 32bit mode is totally broken in every resolution (corrupted colors) and I still have the corrupt sound in some dxdiag tests.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 05:57

Brilliant! That's great news. I was about to try the shell update tool, too, but you solved the problem without much trial and error. :) That's really interesting as a SCSI driver isn't required -- I would never have thought that and believed that this was all possible.

I'll verify the automount/shutdown bug. And the d-tools is really only necessary for multiple CDs and long file names -- mostly the former. If a single disk must be mounted, one could revert back to the atapi/mscdex emulation. Interesting result on the scandisk, too.

The drivers do not seem to offer consistent compatibility across the A, B, and C versions. I can only suppose that the newer OS' are searching for additional features, the multimedia ones especially. Do the built-in C drivers work? Could you try the unmodified version of the drivers I posted (from the 9x guide)? Does 16-bit color work? I always run in this mode since it's faster and the 3dfx mode is always that anyways. Have you tried manual configuration of the sb16 resources? Have you booted into safe mode and verified the devices shown?

I have a web page (link below; thanks to gulikoza). There are guides there and I could post a Guide here and there.
Last edited by truth_deleted on 2013-12-24 @ 06:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 06:12

If you have automount disabled and shutting down with a disc mounted doesn't freeze windows, then the bug is unique to my setup.

It might be timing out looking for some IE4/MSI file. Unfortunately windows freezes before filemon/regmon update...
I suppose I could throw the giant IE4/MSI temp directory into my path and see what happens.

re: sb16 & s3 drivers, what exactly did you modify?
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby ih8registrations » 2013-12-24 @ 06:15

Instead of a wiki with an elaborate install procedure to follow, could make a batch file that does the cab extractions, copies, etc.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 06:19

I just modified the inf files in both and removed any drivers not used by the detected device. It definitely would be prudent to try the unmodified versions from the 9x guide by dosfreak (it's in the Guide subforum, but I can help along with that, if you think it's worthwhile).

Also, your previous post was clear on the automount issue, I edited my reply as you posted. I'm testing that, too.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 06:21

@ih8registrations
Extracting cabs is only needed for dtools so far, and is pretty simple.
The most technical bit is dealing with drivers, and we've not quite got that stable yet.

Once the setup has stabilized, a wiki with links and nice pictures would be the easiest thing to follow I think.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 06:34

Edit: I now have a more certain result on the automount issue. With a Nero image, I can have automount off and reboot with a CD mounted. On reboot, the CD is not mounted, so no error, too.
Last edited by truth_deleted on 2013-12-24 @ 06:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 06:39

Good, I guess :P
I can successfully shutdown with an iso mounted and automount enabled, but on the next reboot it'll freeze if I do anything before unmounting the iso.
In any case, this bug is easily worked around (with a startup item) so I'm not going to look into it for now.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 06:44

I could reproduce the bug and then couldn't. :( It could even be image specific (like the cue/bin audio bug). As you said, the startup item is perfectly fine, especially given this all is a great result both for image size and also for OS stability.

Edit: are you using 4mb video ram for S3?
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 06:53

Was running 2mb, but changing it to 4mb doesn't fix it (tested 800x600x32)
Err, wait, changing conf doesn't change what it says in display properties. Gotta reinstall the driver I guess.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 06:56

My best guess is I removed a driver necessary for 32bit color (perhaps the unmodified driver should be tested). I haven't found a game which requires 32bit color yet and it can cause slowdowns (for example, Baldurs Gate). The glide games are 16bit color, too.

Edit: I just remembered that your S3 is probably locked at 4mb, at least it's possible; in any case, I was only wondering if you have 1/2 meg allocated for some reasons, if that's possible and relevant to the color depth.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 07:18

Switched to default win95c driver. Works fine up to 1024*768*32, 1280*1024*16 (as in it switches without corruption) with a 4mb card, but I'm not sure if it's actually displaying in 32bit. I'll need a test pattern.
DOS box results in screen corruption or freezing though.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 07:24

I verified I have the same result in 95b as you have in C. :) I never had enabled 32bit color, but now that I tried, I have that same corruption in B. Also, the default driver on the CABs produces that DOS box problem.
Last edited by truth_deleted on 2013-12-24 @ 07:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 07:26

Using the S3 driver included in directx works the best.
32bit works, as does dos prompt 90%.
Initially, text in the dos box is black-on-black, but typing dir a few times gets it working. CLS doesn't function right (resets cursor position but doesn't blank the screen). I think this might be caused by incomplete S3 emulation. I had the same problem in your modified driver too..
Last edited by Jarvik7 on 2013-12-24 @ 07:30, edited 1 time in total.
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