If you mean you'll be in a pure DOS environtment (No Windows), then the list of "Do Not Correctly Support" is going to be quite long... Most cards don't come with DOS mode drivers anymore.

ANY sound card should work with VDMSound, though. That doesn't require specific drivers.

Most PCI cards are bad news for running games in pure DOS because DOS games expect to be talking to an ISA Sound Blaster or whatever. This means that you'll either need to use a driver utility or that the sound card will have to have some hardware to deal with the issue.

The only PCI sound cards I've tried in pure DOS are the Creative SB PCI128 and SB Live!, and they both use similar drivers. There were numerous issues that often created headaches for me. I would have to say that using VDMSound and/or DOSbox in Windows XP is actually working better for me in many cases than using combinations of pure DOS and DOS boxes in Win98SE.

Thanks HunterZ!

You know my problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With a PCI-Soundcard you have always a Emulation. Always!!!!!!!! In pure DOS,WIN95/98/SE/ME/XP/2000/NT.
And it is true! WinXP+VDMSOUND is more compatible than the lousy Soundblaster-DOSdriver!
IT is always the old bad Ensonic-Sounddriver 🙁
Or the really bad "LEGACY Emulation" in Win98!!!!!!!

In other boards you can read:
Make a multi-boot System. XP and Win98 and DOS. Do not forget DOS/Win98 can not handle NTFS!
They are so smart!

What shall you do if you bought a new computer?

Blaming the the poor computer-seller?
Like this?

Hey man! I bought this damn 3GHZ Computer. Where is the fucking ISA-SLOT? Are you crazy? I can not plug in my original ISA-Soundblaster16 with Wavetable-Board.
Or tell the dealer that you want a ISA-Soundcard in your new computer 😀 *LOL*

Actually I think it's in the specifications for the newer hardware that ISA slots should not be included on the motherboards. The reason is that it was creating a big mess in hardware and software, so everyone decided to just get rid of ISA. I would suggest trying to build an old computer for playing DOS games, and put a good ISA card in it. Then you can use a fancy all-PCI (and AGP) motherboard for your new XP system and not worry about it. Or, use VDMsound and DOSbox (like I have to do right now on my PIII-550 because I'm too poor).

Also, if you want to multiboot, you can always use FAT32 (or maybe even FAT16) for some of your partitions because WinXP can read them just fine.

Also also, I knew about how Creative used Ensoniq drivers for DOS support in their PCI cards. I think Creative bought out Ensoniq to get their PCI sound card technology, instead of developing it themselves.

First of all! You mentioned the main problem: PCI-Soundcards.

The rest should be understood as a ironic posting. Because in other boards they tell you to make a multiboot-System etc etc etc! But this does not help if you have a PCI-Sondcard.

Last but not least!
I am very satisfied with the XP-DOS-BOX and VDMSound! I have no Multi-Boot-System/DOS-Startdisk etc etc etc.
And I do not use a second/old computer with a ISA-Soundcard!

My way to avoid problems:
I play only well known games: Good Support!
AND:
I use the Amiga-Emulators WinUAE/WinFellow.
The Best Way to play PRE-VGA-AGE Games!

Originally posted by Castaspella I'm looking for a new sound card, the one I have really doesn't support DOS anything.

As has been said there's precious little "true" DOS support left out there... This had been discussed earlier:
showthread.php?threadid=60

AOpen AW540 is about the only modern card that actually advertises full DOS support:
http://www.aopen.com/products/sound/aw540.htm

Note that many cards will claim DOS support, but they frequently leave out that you must actually be running Windows for DOS support to work. If they are like this, the specs will usually contain something like this:

DOS Legacy Mode Support:
Supports DOS compatible modes: DDMA under Windows 95/98

Philips soundcards still seem to have decent DOS-level support (that's Win95 DOS, not DOS 6 or earlier), however it's been removed from it's most recent card releases.

Originally posted by DRECK You are a crack! Yeah, that is true.

Hrmm... Ok. I'm stumped on that one...

My way to avoid problems:
I play only well known games: Good Support!

That will only take you so far. There are plenty of little-known titles that will run in XP, yet some well-known titles just won't behave.

I use the Amiga-Emulators WinUAE/WinFellow.
The Best Way to play PRE-VGA-AGE Games!

Well there were plenty of DOS titles that were never ported to the Amiga but, on the flip-side, there were plenty of early VGA titles that were as good on the Amiga (or better). Frequently this had to do with many early titles being Amiga ports (the downside for those being a 32-color display and they weren't always coded too well...).

Sorry my Pidgin English is the problem!
The board is great! You, Vogon... have much knowledge and knowhow. Thanks for this.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

Hrmm... Ok. I'm stumped on that one...

Sorry! Has the word "crack" a bad meaning? I thought it is more like first-class, super.

I wrote the postings because HunterZ described my problem!
Thats all!

It was an emotional posting: HunterZ remembered me on my problems to start/install/run good old games that I've never played until the end on my new XP(onlyNTFS)installed-Computer.
And he remembered me that computerdealers are very surprised if you ask them like this:
Can I play my old Games with the new computer? VESA3.0 Support in the Dos-BOX? Sound-Support?? Can I play LucasArtsAdventures,Discworld1+2, Bards Tale, Pirates! in the Dos BOX?

They looked at me like "Are you mad?"!

Some retailers still sell the SB16Wave ISA card. CompUSA did until 8 months ago. It was going for $20-$30.

My roommate found both PnP and non-PnP ISA SB16's (brand new) on the Internet a year ago for around $15 each. I got a non-PnP one from him for extra jumper goodness. Now I have a large spare sound card collection:

SoundBlaster 2.0 (ISA 8-bit)
SoundBlaster 16 MCD (ISA 16-bit, lots of weird CD controller connectors)
SoundBlaster 16 non-PnP (ISA 16-bit, one standard IDE controller connector)
SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold (ISA 16 bit, almost wish I had an AWE32 instead so I could use normal RAM chips because I can only use small soundfonts on it)
SoundBlaster PCI128 (PCI, probably barely changed from Ensoniq designs, although it has basic EAX and 4 speaker support)
SoundBlaster Live! Value (PCI, the most common card on the market)

My computer currently has a SoundBlaster Live! X-Gamer in it, which I think only differs from the Value in that it has a digital output that I don't have speakers to use with.

I think it's funny when people who have only had a Live! or an Audigy ask me what I think of Creative because having all these cards over the years has allowed me to see their decline in quality and attidute towards their customers. Needless to say, I'll be shopping around for other brands when I get the opportunity to build my next system.

Originally posted by DRECK Sorry my Pidgin English is the problem!

Not a problem. Certainly better than my German. Your effort is appreciated.

Sorry! Has the word "crack" a bad meaning? I thought it is more like first-class, super.

It can mean either of those things. It all depends on how it is used.

Originally posted by psz Some retailers still sell the SB16Wave ISA card. CompUSA did until 8 months ago.

I think you can consider that "remaining inventory". I haven't seen a Creative ISA soundcards for a looong time. They certainly haven't been advertising them for quite a while...

Actually, that was a new shipment of them :-> I was working at CompUSA at the time ;->

I moved back to Louisiana right after, though, so dunno what's up now.

Originally posted by psz Actually, that was a new shipment of them

Then you must've been the recipients of the last shipments. Seriously, I haven't seen a new ISA SoundBlaster for years...

i was trying to get a AWE64 pci, as my mate had one and he said he got good dos sound out of it, but gave up, too hard to track one down

atm i've got a AW840 and my mate has a AW744 any opinions on these?

the AW840 is fickle about a number of games in win98 mind you, had no luck in dos with it...

w2k with vmd is great, just tried betrayal at krondor then, works a treat, damn those moredhel chests though...

got a pentium next to me thats got a SB16 of some kind in it, going to use it to play games that obstinately refuse to work in w2k(i'm looking at you ultima 8...)

having some midi problems with vmd, but i'll rummage thru the baord first, see if i can't find anything

Originally posted by KHORG i was trying to get a AWE64 pci, as my mate had one and he said he got good dos sound out of it, but […]
Show full quote

Originally posted by KHORG i was trying to get a AWE64 pci, as my mate had one and he said he got good dos sound out of it, but gave up, too hard to track one down

atm i've got a AW840 and my mate has a AW744 any opinions on these?

the AW840 is fickle about a number of games in win98 mind you, had no luck in dos with it...

That's because, technically, it doesn't support DOS. "Legacy support" is relegated to "DDMA under Windows". That's fine if the DOS titles works properly on Windows, but there are plenty of DOS titles that won't... Even with a card like the AW540, some just aren't going to work properly because they expect an ISA sound card. For those titles, an old PC with an ISA sound card (or a PC emulator with ISA sound emulation) is/are the only way to go.

got a pentium next to me thats got a SB16 of some kind in it, going to use it to play games that obstinately refuse to work in w2k(i'm looking at you ultima 8...)

It's always handy to keep an old PC around if you can. As for Ultima 8, does "Dragon Baroque"s patchnot work for you?

HunterZ wrote:

Now I have a large spare sound card collection: […]
Show full quote

Now I have a large spare sound card collection:

SoundBlaster 2.0 (ISA 8-bit)
SoundBlaster 16 MCD (ISA 16-bit, lots of weird CD controller connectors)
SoundBlaster 16 non-PnP (ISA 16-bit, one standard IDE controller connector)
SoundBlaster AWE64 Gold (ISA 16 bit, almost wish I had an AWE32 instead so I could use normal RAM chips because I can only use small soundfonts on it)
SoundBlaster PCI128 (PCI, probably barely changed from Ensoniq designs, although it has basic EAX and 4 speaker support)
SoundBlaster Live! Value (PCI, the most common card on the market)

...

I think it's funny when people who have only had a Live! or an Audigy ask me what I think of Creative because having all these cards over the years has allowed me to see their decline in quality and attidute towards their customers. Needless to say, I'll be shopping around for other brands when I get the opportunity to build my next system.

Since you mentioned all these cards I got a question for you (and everyone around with a SoundBlaster). My list of old cards is not as big as yours, but since I've owned three SB cards (SB 16 MCD, SB AWE64 and SB Live! Value) and I'm currently stuck with an on-board C-Media 8738 chip, I wonder if I should go back to Creative and get a SB Live! 5.1 or look around for something else. My only requirement so far is to have 5.1 speakers support, so I can enjoy my DVD drive and surround speakers.

Thanks,

I actually spent some time researching the current cards on the market, and I found that (sadly) the Audigy2 is king.

The next-closest cards were some of TerraTec's cards and the M-Audio Revolution 7.1. They seem to fall down on the job when it comes to good hardware-accelerated DirectSound support though, so if you play games then they will eat more CPU cycles than the Audigy2, which may matter if you have a slower CPU and want that processing power to be used for other things like graphics. Some of TerraTec's cards don't have analog outputs for every channel too, so you'll need digital speakers to get the most out of them. TerraTec's cards also seem overpriced - probably because they're a small European company (from the looks of it).

If you just care about watching DVDs with a 5.1 setup though, just about anything that supports 5.1 DVD playback will do the trick.

HunterZ wrote:

I actually spent some time researching the current cards on the market, and I found that (sadly) the Audigy2 is king.

*sigh* I also fear this is true.

The next-closest cards were some of TerraTec's cards and the M-Audio Revolution 7.1. They seem to fall down on the job when it comes to good hardware-accelerated DirectSound support though, so if you play games then they will eat more CPU cycles than the Audigy2, which may matter if you have a slower CPU and want that processing power to be used for other things like graphics. Some of TerraTec's cards don't have analog outputs for every channel too, so you'll need digital speakers to get the most out of them. TerraTec's cards also seem overpriced - probably because they're a small European company (from the looks of it).

Sadly, I have no idea how to get such cards here in Brazil. If I buy them over the net I will have to pay a lot of import taxes, so I'll probably end up with some "mainstream" card.

If you just care about watching DVDs with a 5.1 setup though, just about anything that supports 5.1 DVD playback will do the trick.

Well, 5.1 DVD playback is one of my goals, but I also want decent 3D sound in games and stable drivers, if I'm not asking too much.

Thanks,