Ack, before I get chewed for posting guidelines...😀

Windows XP Pro
2.4GHz
1GB RAM
Onboard Sound (RealTek AC'97)

Microsoft Mouse Driver is dated 7/1/2000.

Cush

OK, well good news and bad news.

Good news is digging through the registry, I found 3 Logitech drivers in my system32/drivers directory. I deleted them.

Bad news is doing so wiped out the use of the keyboard and mouse. I put in the XP disc to "Repair a Windows installation" and not only did it ask for those drivers, it asked for them in the wrong place and I couldn't use the keyboard or mouse to change that location. So I ended up having to format my core Windows XP partition.

If anyone cares, loading Logitech's "MouseWare" drivers is a BAD idea if you're trying to run old DOS games; any game that tries to initialize the mouse freezes as soon as it tries to do so.

Cush

Originally posted by Unregistered Ack, before I get chewed for posting guidelines...

While it's good that you posted specs as requested in the posting guidelines, it's bad that you posted in a forum for VDMSound...about a problem that has nothing to do with VDMSound.

Not sure what to tell you about your Logitech problem as I've been using an MS-mouse since I got XP. Sympathies.

Well I figured the forum had a significant amount of people who've struggled with hardware issues to get DOS games to run. I figured someone would know how to fully remove those drivers or at least have a suggestion. Indeed, having searched the forum first, I found references to a couple pieces of mouse software that address similar problems.

Nothing wrong with the mouse; it'll run on standard XP drivers. Just good luck trying to get rid of Logitech's drivers completely. Won't be a problem since they won't be installed again.

If you want an issue related to VDMSound, how about Inherit The Earth? I have the 3.5" disk version of the game and it will only run with background music. If you set it up to use sound effects, it won't run.

Cush

Won't run.. gives an error?
Won't run.. sits there with a blank screen?
Won't run.. NTVDM dies?

Tried it in DOSBox?

Well I'd love to answer that question, but apparently reinstalling my entire Windows partition didn't fix the problem. I have a bad feeling that a recent Windows Critical Update is causing the lock-up I'm having.

I formatted and reinstalled Windows, loaded nothing but software drivers (not mouse drivers), DirectX 9.0a, and all the critical updates and I'm still hanging programs that try to detect or initialize the mouse. Wolfenstein 3D, Police Quest 1 VGA, etc., all just freeze when I try to initialize the mouse and I have no idea why now. No game will crash with an error, just freeze. Maybe I need to try this DOSBox, but it worked before. Anyone else running into this? And yeah, I know, it's not VDMSound, but surely another Windows XP/DOS user has to routinely updates his/her system.

Cush

Originally posted by Unregistered Inherit The Earth?

People always give me the hard ones...*heh*

I have the 3.5" disk version of the game

And, of course, mine's the CD version... One thing I will say, it's a pig to get running.

Much like "Age of Rifles", it was coded without considering that people would ever have more than one CD-ROM device. Unlike AOR, disabling my 2nd drive (and Daemon Tools emulating a 3rd) didn't help. Even telling the BIOS it didn't exist didn't help. I had to physically pull the IDE cable from the second drive before it would stop with that insanely annoying:
Error Reading CD Media - Probably none loaded!

In any case, there are apparently other issues as I was unable to get past the first few seconds of the intro. Unable to compare it to the floppy version, as the only one I found was apparently "broken".

Originally posted by Snover Tried it in DOSBox?

It's DOS4GW, so the public release of DosBox is DOA. Looks promising in RC2 of DosBox0.58, but uses a ton of resources in the process (slow). Besides, I didn't do any real bug-testing and they're almost certainly there...

Originally posted by Unregistered loaded nothing but software drivers (not mouse drivers), DirectX 9.0a,

Hrmm...DX9 again...*taps fingers on tabletop*

Maybe I need to try this DOSBox, but it worked before.

For older, non-protected-mode games, it's the way to go.

Anyone else running into this?

Not here, but like I said, I'm on a MS-Mouse. Hrmmm...

Well the disk version of Inherit The Earth runs (er, RAN) fine on my system as long as I chose "No Sound" for the digitized effects. I sat through the whole intro and got to play for a bit. I've just been playing games long enough to ensure they work; I have a LOT of 3.5" disks lying around. With the CD issue, can't you just put it in the drive it expects? Or does it bug out as soon as it figures out you have more than one? If you want, I can post my working 3.5" version up somewhere. I didn't see a yay or nay in posting guidelines, so if that's frowned upon, forget I said it.

I would wonder about DirectX 9.0a too, but when I first built the system, it was one of the first things I installed and everything ran fine then, so I'm reduced to uninstalling critical updates and hot fixes one-by-one. No luck as of last night.

I don't have a Microsoft mouse, but again, this worked previously and I haven't loaded any third party software. Just plugged the thing in and it's detected as a "PS/2 compatible mouse" with the Microsoft driver that comes with Windows XP. The mouse is actually a USB mouse that came with a PS/2 adapter. I've always been using it as a PS/2 mouse without problems. Last night I tried using it as a USB mouse and enabling USB Legacy Support in the BIOS, but same issue.

I'm still extremely shocked that reformatting the entire Windows partition and loading the basic set of software didn't alleviate the problem. I find it hard to believe my system suddenly stopped refusing to run anything DOS-like. Oh well, I'll continue to uninstall the hotfixes and see what happens.

Cush

Any time I've seen DOS game freezes in XP it's been because of 2 things:

1: Hardware Monitoring I/O progs.
2. Sound misconfiguration.
3. VESA

I count 3 things listed 😜

Well sound or VESA's not an issue. Even the SCI Sierra setup/install program (INSTALL.EXE) hangs because it tries to put a mouse cursor on the screen. I don't run any particular hardware I/O monitoring program; in fact my system's as clean-booting as I can get it. The service that's installed with nVidia's drivers runs at startup and so does the Adobe Gamma Loader which just loads a color profile for your monitor and terminates. Both were loaded when I had this working before.

My original guess was the Logitech drivers not playing well with DOS but now that the partition is utterly wiped, the problem persists. I've really got no idea what else to try, save all the critical updates. If I want to take the time, I suppose I could wipe the partition, only load the original XP boot disc, try a game, load an update/service pack/driver, repeat. I would've done that this past time, but I was sure it was Logitech's drivers.

I know DOSBox exists and I guess other mouse emulators do as well, but I'm pretty interested to know what caused the failure in the first place for a pretty standard environment. Really driving me up the wall. When I had DOS games and VDMSound both running fairly well all was so good....*sigh*

Cush

Unregistered wrote:

Well the disk version of Inherit The Earth runs (er, RAN) fine on my system as long as I chose "No Sound" for the digitized effects. I sat through the whole intro and got to play for a bit.
(...)
I'm still extremely shocked that reformatting the entire Windows partition and loading the basic set of software didn't alleviate the problem. I find it hard to believe my system suddenly stopped refusing to run anything DOS-like. Oh well, I'll continue to uninstall the hotfixes and see what happens.

Forgive me if I'm asking some obvious questions, but when you try to run the game with no sound, are you still running it under VMDSound or just using the plain NTVDM? Does the game works without VDMSound? Maybe we should work on this one step at a time.

Regards,

Nah, it's a good question to cover. I've tried to run games with and without VDMSound. Configuration applications I never ran with VDMSound (again, Sierra games with the 80x25 install programs). Since the configuration applications that try to detect hardware (including a mouse) freeze, I can't configure application to use or not use sound. Police Quest 1 VGA will hang on the install program. If I try to run the game, it says "Can't detect audio hardware". Since I can't get into the install program to choose a soundcard, I can't turn sound off. For another example, Wolfenstein 3D Shareware's first screen tries to detect EMS, XMS, Conventional memory, along with sound cards and mouse...it hangs there.

Is there a good game with command-line parameters I should be using as a default to try and run with various options turned off? I've just been going back to ones that ran before.

As near as I can tell, they will work until they try to detect/initialize a mouse. DarkSun II will run through the opening intro screens and won't freeze until the main menu pops up to Create/Load a character and sure enough as soon as the mouse cursor shows up, it hangs.

Cush

Is this a PS/2 or USB mouse?

Originally posted by Unregistered Well the disk version of Inherit The Earth runs (er, RAN) fine on my system as long as I chose "No Sound" for the digitized effects.

It turns out that my problem was the hacked installer crashing on my XP. Works ok so as long as I choose IGNORE after the first "16-bit subsystem error". Once I got past that it ran fine: SB16 digital audio withnOPL2 or MIDI. Not sure why yours is crashing.

I have a LOT of 3.5" disks lying around.

Start backing them up, either by ZIPping the files or imaging the disks. The life expectancy of floppies isn't very long.

With the CD issue, can't you just put it in the drive it expects? Or does it bug out as soon as it figures out you have more than one?

Bugs out. Where the CD is located is irrelevant. The code simply can't handle the presence of more than one CD drive...even when I've hidden it.

If you want, I can post my working 3.5" version up somewhere.

We try to avoid that. Tends to attract "warez leechers" and people from the ISDA who have a little too much free time on their hands.

I don't have a Microsoft mouse, but again, this worked previously and I haven't loaded any third party software. Just plugged the thing in and it's detected as a "PS/2 compatible mouse" with the Microsoft driver that comes with Windows XP.

This is optical I presume? I remember I had all kinds of erratic problems with my first MS optical mouse (although I had no idea it was the mouse at the time). Problems came and went, seemingly at random. Turn out the mouse was dying...it was just doing it over a long period of time. Problems went away the moment I hooked up a generic mouse I had lying around.

Last night I tried using it as a USB mouse and enabling USB Legacy Support in the BIOS, but same issue.

Well you shouldn't need "legacy support" unless you're trying to run it in "real" DOS.

Originally posted by HunterZ I count 3 things listed

Yes, but in the Metric system, that's 2 things.

Originally posted by Unregistered Since the configuration applications that try to detect hardware (including a mouse) freeze, I can't configure application to use or not use sound.

Do you have another mouse, any other mouse, that you can try with your PC?

Is there a good game with command-line parameters I should be using as a default to try and run with various options turned off?

Hrmm...Ms.PacEm has no mouse support, but it does autodetect... will look around...

Originally posted by Snover Is this a PS/2 or USB mouse?

USB with a PS2 adapter...he already covered that.

Yes, it's a USB mouse with a PS/2 adapter. Windows detects it as a PS/2 currently since I use it that way. Also, yes, it's an optical mouse. If anyone cares, it's this one:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=produc … 19&languageid=1

I don't know my exact problem with Inherit The Earth. I just tried to run it and it froze as soon as it displayed the sword going through the Earth. I imagine that's where the mouse cursor's supposed to show up...😀

And yes, archiving all my 3.5" disks and trying to get the games to run was what I was in the middle of when I hit this particular problem. I can still archive them, but I was hoping to make a CD or something with all the games configured to work.

I guess the next thing I will do is try another mouse; I can get ahold of one, one way or the other.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Cush

HunterZ wrote:

I count 3 things listed 😜

Well someone here doesn't know how to count... 😉

Maybe he was counting in, uh, hexidecimal. Yes.

Looks like someone's still doing math with a first-generation Pentium...😀

Tried a different mouse. Windows didn't even detect new hardware, but the mouse worked fine. The DOS programs still fails on mouse detection/initialization.

Really running out of ideas as the critical updates and hot fixes drop away...

Cush