A good start would be to make an index of the music tracks in the PSX version and take a descriptive note of their 'appearance' in the game (where and when are they played, which event triggers which music, etc). It would certainly lighten Paul's task 😀
wrote:A good start would be to make an index of the music tracks in the PSX version and take a descriptive note of their 'appearance' in the game (where and when are they played, which event triggers which music, etc). It would certainly lighten Paul's task 😀
That's what I was thinking of. I've already ripped them to my computer just for listening purposes, and I've been trying to name them something descriptive.
Of course, it would also be important to play through the PC version finding out where it reads from the disc and where it doesn't, because some of the sounds that the PSX gets from those tracks, the PC gets from somewhere else. For example, there's a track on the PSX that plays when Lara finds a secret. There's no such track on the PC disc, but that sound still happens when she finds a secret. Also, there are several tracks on the PSX for the instructions at her home, but they aren't listed on the PC disc. But they are there in the game.
Most of the ambient sound seems to be there, so it seems to just be about 15 or so musical tracks that are missing, and they happen at pretty clear places. What seems to trigger them is just coming to a place for the first time.
Again, I'll be happy to give it a try, if this is something that Paul wants to put time into, and if it will be helpful to him.
Not sure you should put any effort into this yet. I'm not sure that I'll find time to do this.
On the other hand, if you do want to go ahead on the off chance, then creating save games just before each sound is triggered would be very useful.
Okay, I'll give that a try. I assume what you mean is to play the game on the ePSXe, note where the sounds are, then go into the PC version and save the game where those would be. I'll also work on making a correlation of what tracks are on both cd's, and which correspond to which (because some of the numbers are different).
It might take some time for me to go through the whole game, so if you do find time to work on this, let me know, and I can send you the savegames I have thus far. You can email me at slube@itsa.ucsf.edu, or just post here. I'll also try to indicate which track number starts with which game.
Yeh that would be great. It would need to be save games just before the trigger point, so that I can load the savegame, and wlak through the trigger. I'm hoping that there is a texture that first gets used at each of those points.
Well, the effort is underway. I have about 18 saved games, and I think I'm somewhere around the third level. But I'm beginning to appreciate the difficulty of making this work properly, with regard to how the sounds would be triggered. Paul, you said:
Glidos can recognise game textures and perform some action as a particular textures is renderd (such as play a sound track)
And also
I'm hoping that there is a texture that first gets used at each of those points.
But I'm wondering when the action gets triggered: when the texture appears on the screen, when Lara steps over it, or when it is equal with her position, to the left or right? The thing is, would the music play every time that texture was used? Would it be possible to make Glidos trigger the track when a particular combination of textures is rendered? It seems like that would be more likely to be in only once place in the game, so that the music would only be associated with once spot.
Also, just out of curiosity, did you get glidos to make the original program play the tunes, or did you have it directly address the cd to play the tracks at certain textures?
The sooner, most probably.
Just a thought, though I guess Paul must have considered it already... The TR5 Level Editor uses spatial coordinates to know exactly where Lara stands inside a set of rooms (that is, a complete level). Does such a feature exist in TR1? Glidos could play a given track according to Lara's absolute position inside the level, and would assign a variable to each track in order to prevent it from being played more than once after the event has been triggered.
Another thing that will make this a bit more complicated is the fact that the PC Tombraider program calls tracks already. At the beginning of the game, it calls track 3, which is track 5 on the PSX.
More importantly, it uses tracks for some, but not all, of the dramatic scenes, such as the showdown with Larson after getting the scion. The PSX cd has this track too, but it's a different track number. Therefore, either the program on the PC has to be made to stop calling those tracks, or the track numbers it calls has to be changed.
The other possibilty would be to make a custom cd of PSX tracks, with the ones that the PC calls at the correct locations. This may seem a bit extreme, but it also takes care of another issue: there are three tracks on the PC (4,5, and 6) which are not on the PSX. They are ambient tracks. I haven't gotten to the point where the PC program calls them, but I imagine it will, sooner or later.
A hybrid audio cd could include those tracks as well, for the full-on Tombraider sound experience. There wouldn't be any problem of having too many tracks, because you could just put them where the instructional tracks are on the PSX disc (something like tracks 30-50), because the PC gets those sounds internally; that is, not as audio tracks from the cd.
Track 4: The Cistern
Track 5: most of St Francis' Folly
Track 6: Atlantis
Indeed I don't recall hearing them in the PSX version.
Originally posted by Kaminari Indeed I don't recall hearing them in the PSX version.
At the risk of stirring things up (and the possibility that this question has been asked a million times...despite my not having found an answer)...
Why not use the editor included with "Tomb Raider Chronicles" to re-create the original "Tomb Raider"? I see that someone has already used it to re-create her home
I actually went searching for this and found a "tomb raider recreation" project, they had the first 2 levels already done. I tried looking for the authors and information but i had no luck.
In any case it is a great option, but with it's kinks, the new movements could ruin some parts of the game, and i don't know if eidos would be that happy after all a version of the original Tomb Raider is coming out for the n-gage (another possible alternative).
Originally posted by DragonSoull but with it's kinks, the new movements could ruin some parts of the game
From what I understand, the engine allows you to disable certain moves for particular areas of the game.
and i don't know if eidos would be that happy after all a version of the original Tomb Raider is coming out for the n-gage (another possible alternative).
That would be a foolish move on their part. Telling people they can't re-create the levels in an attempt to ramrod NGage sales would likely result in people swearing to never buy a Ngage system.
wrote:The sooner, most probably.
Just a thought, though I guess Paul must have considered it already... The TR5 Level Editor uses spatial coordinates to know exactly where Lara stands inside a set of rooms (that is, a complete level). Does such a feature exist in TR1? Glidos could play a given track according to Lara's absolute position inside the level, and would assign a variable to each track in order to prevent it from being played more than once after the event has been triggered.
All Glidos gets to see is trianlges being plotted, and with which texture. A texture being present on the screen with a certain magnification might do it.
wrote:Why not use the editor included with "Tomb Raider Chronicles" to re-create the original "Tomb Raider"? I see that someone has already used it to re-create her home
That's an interesting possibilty, though there's a couple of potential issues. I haven't actually looked too much at the editor, though I do have it, but I do wonder:
1. Can you make it trigger any audio track at any time?
2. Can you do those funky pseudo-movies (like the one where she fights Larson)?
3. Is there any way to incorporate actual movies, like mpeg or avi's?
I'll have a look at some of these projects.
That would be a foolish move on their part. Telling people they can't re-create the levels in an attempt to ramrod NGage sales would likely result in people swearing to never buy a N-gage system.
Actually was thinking more on the lines of copyright infringements (we would have to duplicate or rip tomb raider textures).
if they would do it or not i don't know i just remembered what happened to scummvm when lucasarts found out (luckily nothing bad happened, that time).
Originally posted by DragonSoull Actually was thinking more on the lines of copyright infringements (we would have to duplicate or rip tomb raider textures).
Well, I would consider that there should be a "confirmation of ownership" method much like the Ultima remakes are using. It's possible that "pseudo-textures" could be used with instructions on how to port the original's textures placed in the package...although the ideal method would be for someone to go back and "re-texture" everything with greater detail.
Originally posted by Unregistered 1. Can you make it trigger any audio track at any time?
2. Can you do those funky pseudo-movies (like the one where she fights Larson)?
3. Is there any way to incorporate actual movies, like mpeg or avi's?
I don't know, but I would think so...since the editor is supposedly the same one the programmers used to make the game(s).
although the ideal method would be for someone to go back and "re-texture" everything with greater detail.
Well if some one did that then hell why not go all the way, pick a nice little OSS next-gen engine and re-build the game from there.
We would probably end up with Tomb Raider game with the looks of Angel of Darkness with none of the bugs 😀
All of this lets face it is very unlikely, but if it was done it could even make it like counter-strike.
Originally posted by DragonSoull Well if some one did that then hell why not go all the way, pick a nice little OSS next-gen engine and re-build the game from there.
That's an easy one. Even if it's more advanced, the game mechanics would be different, and that would be a never-ending pain in the butt.
I'm reminded of the guys who made add-on maps/stories for Blood trying to make the transition to the LithTech engine of Blood2...only to find there were things it's simply couldn't do.
The Qblood/Transfusion people could probably testify to this as well (going from the original BLOOD based on BUILD to the Quake engine).
If you use the original Windows editor, the vast majority of that kind of thing is not an issue.
Your probably right, it is in these times that i fell the entire industry should do what id does and release the source of their old games 😀, It's just like that drink ad says...
"It just makes sense" (or is it "you know it makes sence"? i forget
wrote:1. Can you make it trigger any audio track at any time?
2. Can you do those funky pseudo-movies (like the one where she fights Larson)?
3. Is there any way to incorporate actual movies, like mpeg or avi's?
1. Yup.
2. Yes, but ingame cutscenes are very hard to build with the current tools.
3. No (the feature is present but doesn't work).
Actually many people have tried to recreate the original levels. TR4's engine (used in TR5 and TRLE) allows a faithful recreation, along with shiny new effects like dynamic lighting and volumetric fog. Indeed, specific moves can be enabled or disabled. The only problem is the awful amount of work needed to rebuild each level. Every level builder who tried to remake TR1 has given up at one point or another. The most advanced project was the TR Conversion Project, and it halted at the tomb of Qualopec. Too bad, because it was very promising.
That's the main reason why I got interested in Glidos in the first place 😉
