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Doom 'MBF' for DOS, Maintenance release 2.04

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Reply 240 of 248, by Gmlb256

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crvs wrote on 2022-06-21, 22:54:
halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-21, 18:46:
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-08-05, 16:31:

Has anyone noticed that MAP02 music on Final DOOM TNT: Evilution sound slightly different in comparison to the original DOS executable that was shipped with the game?

There is one note that doesn't seem to play on MBF.

I encountered something similar with Doom1 using MBF - the score/intermission screen (after you finish a level) music seems to not play some notes or something during the beginning of the track - first 2 seconds or so with the drums. Using MIDI - not sure about FM. Tried with both the most recent build posted by crvs as well as the version from 1998 and the issue seems present in both. Tested using DOS 7.1 on a Pentium 3 with a Yamaha Audician ISA sound card using external MIDI. Using the same setup with the original Doom exe works perfectly.

Can you try this .EXE?

Still has the issue with MAP02 music of TNT: Evilution. 🙁

Reply 241 of 248, by crvs

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halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-21, 23:59:

I just tried and it seems like the issue is still the same. Are you able to replicate the issue using MIDI/MPU-401 music? I'm not sure if it's a missing note or it's hitching but it happens a few times in those first couple of seconds. It's less obvious when listening to a Sound Canvas but all my other MIDI synths really make the issue obvious.

Then this issue is probably device-specific. In DosBox, all versions sound the same to me. I did a lot of changes since last release and this is the latest build that I could make, just hoped it worked. All my 'real' hardware is lost in the war, as well as the latest sources, hence there will be no more updates from me in near future, if I ever return to the project.

Reply 242 of 248, by halfmoon

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crvs wrote on 2022-06-22, 01:06:
halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-21, 23:59:

I just tried and it seems like the issue is still the same. Are you able to replicate the issue using MIDI/MPU-401 music? I'm not sure if it's a missing note or it's hitching but it happens a few times in those first couple of seconds. It's less obvious when listening to a Sound Canvas but all my other MIDI synths really make the issue obvious.

Then this issue is probably device-specific. In DosBox, all versions sound the same to me. I did a lot of changes since last release and this is the latest build that I could make, just hoped it worked. All my 'real' hardware is lost in the war, as well as the latest sources, hence there will be no more updates from me in near future, if I ever return to the project.

I tried in DosBox 0.74 using the default Windows Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth and it seems to have this issue in MBF as well. I also tried SoundBlaster in DosBox and it seems like it might have the issue as well but the general music fidelity is so low in comparison, I doubt anyone would notice the difference at the beginning of the track unless you're looking for it.

Reply 243 of 248, by crvs

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halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-22, 03:02:

I doubt anyone would notice the difference at the beginning of the track unless you're looking for it.

You could probably want to point it out, maybe record the right fragments ..

Reply 244 of 248, by halfmoon

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crvs wrote on 2022-06-22, 05:43:
halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-22, 03:02:

I doubt anyone would notice the difference at the beginning of the track unless you're looking for it.

You could probably want to point it out, maybe record the right fragments ..

I recorded using a Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth and DosBox-X. It's even more pronounced on my real hardware but that will require some more effort to capture.
Hopefully you can notice a difference here. It's in the first ~2 seconds. In the vanilla exe, it's a consistent drum beat, but with MBF it sounds like it's struggling to play for the first couple of seconds.

Attachments

  • Filename
    inter_mbf.flac
    File size
    1.46 MiB
    Downloads
    No downloads
    File comment
    MBF (May 15, 2022)
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    inter_doom.flac
    File size
    1.46 MiB
    Downloads
    No downloads
    File comment
    Ultimate Doom v1.9
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 245 of 248, by gerwin

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crvs wrote on 2022-06-22, 01:06:

I did a lot of changes since last release and this is the latest build that I could make, just hoped it worked. All my 'real' hardware is lost in the war, as well as the latest sources, hence there will be no more updates from me in near future, if I ever return to the project.

That sure is a dramatic and valid excuse for losing things.
Sorry to hear about that, also considering all the bigger real-life troubles that surely came with it.

halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-22, 06:33:

I recorded using a Yamaha S-YXG50 softsynth and DosBox-X. It's even more pronounced on my real hardware but that will require some more effort to capture.
Hopefully you can notice a difference here. It's in the first ~2 seconds. In the vanilla exe, it's a consistent drum beat, but with MBF it sounds like it's struggling to play for the first couple of seconds.

I can hear it. It sounds like an issue with slow feeding of midi data from the game with midi driver. It always becomes obvious with fast drums. Dune 2 has some tracks that are a good test for such.
If someone can capture the raw midi data with DosBox and compare it, it will probably be the exact same data, just the timing in which each byte was send being different.
One other idea is to build Allegro Setup.exe with such a Dune 2 fast drum track, as the Music driver testing track, and see if the problem is there too. Which would prove it is caused by the Allegro midi driver.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 246 of 248, by crvs

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gerwin wrote on 2022-06-22, 21:09:

That sure is a dramatic and valid excuse for losing things.
Sorry to hear about that, also considering all the bigger real-life troubles that surely came with it.
I can hear it. It sounds like an issue with slow feeding of midi data from the game with midi driver.

These are just things and I'm way more lucky than many others. That's all that I want to say.

On the root cause you are right, quick'n'dirty fix is pretty straightforward - to increase x2 (from 40 to 80 BPS) frequency of the interrupt in "midi.c". A smaller speed raise can be sufficient but I can't test it reliably in the emulator. Of course it could be better to try optimizing midi interrupt code, and (maybe) even to fix the Allegro timers (impossible task), I have played with them a bit but couldn't finish the job.

Here I attached another build, this one seems to sound better on level completion, if anyone wants to try it you're welcome (again, it's untested and not guaranteed to work).

Attachments

  • Filename
    MBF.7Z
    File size
    733.62 KiB
    Downloads
    5 downloads
    File comment
    Untested - use on your own risk
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 247 of 248, by halfmoon

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crvs wrote on 2022-06-22, 23:17:
These are just things and I'm way more lucky than many others. That's all that I want to say. […]
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gerwin wrote on 2022-06-22, 21:09:

That sure is a dramatic and valid excuse for losing things.
Sorry to hear about that, also considering all the bigger real-life troubles that surely came with it.
I can hear it. It sounds like an issue with slow feeding of midi data from the game with midi driver.

These are just things and I'm way more lucky than many others. That's all that I want to say.

On the root cause you are right, quick'n'dirty fix is pretty straightforward - to increase x2 (from 40 to 80 BPS) frequency of the interrupt in "midi.c". A smaller speed raise can be sufficient but I can't test it reliably in the emulator. Of course it could be better to try optimizing midi interrupt code, and (maybe) even to fix the Allegro timers (impossible task), I have played with them a bit but couldn't finish the job.

Here I attached another build, this one seems to sound better on level completion, if anyone wants to try it you're welcome (again, it's untested and not guaranteed to work).

I tried for a brief while using DosBox-X and the Yamaha softsynth and it definitely sounds better on the intermission screen. Thanks! Maybe I'll do some more testing using real hardware a bit later today and see if there's any issues.

Reply 248 of 248, by crvs

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halfmoon wrote on 2022-06-23, 00:38:

I tried for a brief while using DosBox-X and the Yamaha softsynth and it definitely sounds better on the intermission screen. Thanks! Maybe I'll do some more testing using real hardware a bit later today and see if there's any issues.

Great! It will be interesting to learn about the result.