Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-18 @ 08:24

The further I understand FSMP the better I love it. :blush:

Falcosoft wrote:
I said that the slider has 200% (and not 100%) as maximum since it is a gain control and not the volume slider that can be found on MT-32 hardware.


Yes, this is exactly what I understood.
0.0db gain is 100% volume, which is in the middle of the slider.

Although, at a closer look FSMP Volume is indeed a volume slider and not a gain control.
It only attenuates, so in the middle it cuts 6db, where at 100% it is bypassed.


Sorry James, I must have completely misunderstood you from the beginning. I thought you spoke about the Output Gain slider of MUNTVsti, and not FSMP's volume control!
(And I thought you referred Roland Users's post about why 200% was set as maximum). The reason behind my confusion is that I do not remember I claimed such a thing about FSMP's volume (since it's not true):
I remember you explained the the Volume slider is Gain and 0.0 is in the middle;

Of course FSMP's volume slider is not a gain control,and it is 100% at maximum. It's a post-mix control. So it cannot prevent clipping if it occurs in the audio pipeline and does not influence the level meter at all! (please, test it again). But if you select use SysEx for Volume/Balance in Device settings 'Volume' becomes the Synth's internal volume (if it supports it). In this mode the Volume has a different characteristics and can prevent clipping and does influence the level meter since it affects a much earlier stage in the pipeline.

Edit: We had an earlier conversation about clipping with soundfonts. What was said is also applicable to VSTi output mode since it is also based on Bass.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=48207&p=503650&hilit=clipping#p503650

No. In bassmidi soundfont's volume can only be adjusted individually. To prevent clipping/distortion globally you can do 2 things.
1. You can use the 'Use sysex for Volume/Balance' mode since contrary to normal Bass volume setting it influences the pre-mixing/internal synth state.
2. You should enable the use '32 bit sample data' option. With floating point data clipping is not a problem since data outside the normal -1..+1 range can also be used and can be normalized during playback.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby James-F » 2017-5-18 @ 15:21

Yes, I understand that the meters are PRE volume control and it's a good thing they are for indication, so the gain balance should be done with Munt internal Gain and Soundfonts volume.

Also, with the hardware SC-55 or MT-32 hard clipping occurs with high velocity midis at the inputs of an Op-amp that is after the DACs.
That's why I prefer using 16bit mode which clips the signal just like the hardware would.

I have tested the SC-VA vs hardware SC-55 and found that they have identical signal to clipping ration (headroom).

For example:
If I match the volume of the SC-55 and SC-VA with a test midi I've created ("Sine mono.mod" attached), the SC-55 will clip its Op-amp at -0.5db while the SC-VA will clip the digital headroom -0.1dbFS at exactly the same volume.
Roland did an excellent job with SC-VA matching the analog headroom of its hardware counterpart, that's why I consider SC-VA as midi synth reference volume.
Again, that's why I like clipping the signal when using SC-VA, just like the hardware.

Thanks Falco, now everything is clear.

I attached two midis that I used to test and compare the balance of SC-VA vs SC-55.
SC-55 clips its op-amps with Headroom.MID while "Sine Mono.MID" indicates the reference volume, this way I have pretty clear signal-to-headroom ratio of the real hardware.
Mind you, "Sine Mono.MID" uses a sinewave variation (patch 80, MSB '8), so it will only work on a GS device.
Attachments
GS Test Tones.7z
(461 Bytes) Downloaded 40 times
Last edited by James-F on 2017-5-19 @ 09:19, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-19 @ 06:09

FSMP + DOSBox hot swapping virtual Midi devices using SysEx messages:
https://youtu.be/6CdJ7sEt8UM

More details In SC-VA topic:
viewtopic.php?f=62&t=46111&start=380#p585289
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby lukeman3000 » 2017-5-19 @ 06:46

Hi Falcosoft - wanted to ask here so as to not get too off-topic in the other thread.

Forgive me if this has already been covered; what advantages does FSMP offer over SAVIHost? Any reasons I might use one over the other?
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-19 @ 06:59

E.g. you cannot hot swap virtual Midi devices using SysEx messages in SAVIHost... :)
Seriously. SAVIHost is a very good VSTI host. FSMP first and foremost is a midi player that can among others host VSTi plugins. But you can use other VST effect plugins, Soundfonts, standard Midi out devices as well. As a DosBox user Capital Tone Fallback can be a handy feature for you. Please, study the Faq/Howto/Readme for further information.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby James-F » 2017-5-19 @ 07:05

Falcosoft wrote:FSMP + DOSBox hot swapping

Very Cool! I somehow missed that.
I can also see MuntVsti 2.1 in the youtube video, anything new?

@lukeman3000
Since SC-VA takes a few seconds to load, you might want to use it in SAVIHost and use FSMP SYX Presets to send to it through LoopMIDI.
Last edited by James-F on 2017-5-19 @ 07:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-19 @ 07:16

Thanks James. Yeah, I missed you for a while you were very quiet for months :)
Not much, only some fixes. E.g. Pure DAC mode was broken in floating point mode. And I have added some explanations to DAC modes (1x volume, 2x volume), you know...
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby James-F » 2017-5-19 @ 07:22

Falcosoft wrote: very quiet for months :)

First semester exams...
Not much, only some fixes. E.g. Pure DAC mode was broken in floating point mode. And I have added some explanations to DAC modes (1x volume, 2x volume), you know...

Nice, much needed explanation.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-19 @ 16:13

Hi,
version 4.7 of FSMP and version 2.1 of MuntVSTi are released. The test zip is no longer available.
http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer

version 4.7
1. Some UI changes. Added dedicated Main Menu and Minimize button.
2. Added ability to automatically send SysEx (*.syx) files with the same name as the played midi file similarly to auto loading custom soundfont files. Make sure AutoLoad Soundfont/SysEx option is enabled in the Instruments submenu.
3. SysEx (*.syx) files can be drag&dropped into main window and also into Select/Send SysEx dialog and are sent immediately.
4. Added a simple gain VST effect plugin to help handling the wide variation of output levels between VSTi instruments.
5. Added code page selection to the Midi text/Lyrics dialog in the 64 bit/unicode version of the player.
6. Fixed time column of the playlist. It dispalyed playlist time as a normal time format and overflowed at 12/24 hours.
7. Fixed Bassmidi/Vsti mode failed to use default sound output device when it is changed during playback.
8. Fixed notes from Midi input does not use channel map settings when key offset is used and 'Apply controls to Midi in' is selected.

MuntVSTi 2.1
1. Added implementation of Pure DAC input mode in case of floating point rendering.
2. Added some explantion to DAC input mode selection about how different modes influence volume level.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby retrue » 2017-5-19 @ 19:03

Falcosoft wrote:version 4.7 of FSMP and version 2.1 of MuntVSTi are released. The test zip is no longer available.
http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer


The available version is still 4.6.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-19 @ 19:14

I have just checked and I have successfully downloaded midiplayer_47.zip. Which version have you tried to download (x86,x64,bse)? Also try refreshing your browser. Maybe it's just a caching issue.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby retrue » 2017-5-19 @ 19:34

Yup, it was a cache problem.
Downloaded now. Thanks.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-20 @ 20:39

Hi,
Somehow yesterday I missed the Preset folder from the 4.7 package. Also there was a little preset saving/loading related bug so please re-download.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Panicsonic » 2017-5-20 @ 23:46

Hi all. Brand new here, great program, thanks for making it. I've just installed, and have setup the default Bass and dogos2 soundfont. I've tried the included dogos2.mid and strangle.xm, and they play fine.

So, I next tried old reliable canyon.mid, and it's horrible. The whole 'tv news show' stuff right at the beginning is gone. I see notes flashing on the displayed keyboard, but no sound comes out for the first 5 seconds and then the other instruments kick in (I'm not a music guy, so terminology will likely be wrong).

But if I load up the included Munt or OPL vst, canyon plays just fine.

What am I missing? Why wouldn't the default at least play something during this part?
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-20 @ 23:55

Hi,
If you visited my page you should have noticed that there is a special edition that includes a default soundfont :
on my page:
I have made a preconfigured edition that uses a tiny 10MB ogg compressed version of Reality GMGS falcomod soundfont:
Soundfont Midi Player 4.7 Bassmidi + Soundfont Edition


The normal x86/x64 downloads do not include one since it would make the download size tenfold and more professional users have their own so do not require it.
The included dogos2_full.sf2 is not a GM soundfont (look at its size! it's only 400kb) it's only for dogos2_full.mid to demonstrate real time loading of custom soundfonts associated with midi files.
But if you missed it, there is also a separate download link lower on the page where you can download the non compressed soundfont from:
on my page:
If you need a good versatile GM/GS soundfont, try this: Reality_GMGS_falcomod.sf2 (version 1.2)


So just try it once more :) :
http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Panicsonic » 2017-5-21 @ 04:27

Oh hey, what do you know, it actually plays music when you load a real soundfont. :) Thank you for the quick reply, canyon works now of course.

I did read the page, if you care this is how the 'user interface' process went:

- I see the regular version, think 'that's probably for normal folks, that will likely be what I'll be wanting'
- I see the experimental 64 bit version, think 'that's for tinkerers, may be some bugs, probably not for me yet'.
- I see the "preconfigured" and "tiny" version, and that makes me think it it's a stripped down version, it's for timid folks who don't want to mess with options etc. Tiny makes me think it's a smaller download than the regular version above it. I want the full thing, so I skip this one.

So, download and install. Check the faq, it says you must select a soundfont file in the Device settings. It doesn't say I need to provide one, so when I do that, and one candidate file shows in the dialog box looking like it's been conveniently provided for me already. It had the name DOGOS2_full.sf2. The word 'full' makes me not even think to check the file size, it's clearly a full soundfont. That also reinforces my previous thought in that if I had gone with the tiny download, I'd be seeing DOGOS2_tiny.sf2 here.

I did miss the link to the soundfont, I would guess because it's located at the bottom below the version changes. Since the 4.7 changes aren't relevant to a user who's never used the program before, that section gets scanned briefly, or skipped entirely.

Anyway, that's how the brain of a new user works. :) Thanks again for the program and the assistance.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Kaminari » 2017-5-21 @ 06:51

I like the GM/GS/XG icon in the player's main window, but is it possible to precise the "level" of the GS format (in case of a SC-55/88/Pro/ED tonemap)?

This is a very informative feature which I've rarely seen implemented in MIDI players. I think VanBasco is able to display some 88/Pro instruments, but it's not always consistent. One of my favourite players is TMIDI by Japanese developer Fummy (not to be confused with Tom's TMIDI Player). This program made for Windows 95 is 17 years old! Yet it still works great and has a truckload of options, including the capability to accurately detect the type of GS synth required by a given GS file.

Image

Mind you, I'm not really asking for such a detailed piano list :lol: But the replacement of the GS icon in FSMP by more specific device icons (like 88/ED/whatever) would certainly be a nice bonus.
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-21 @ 08:19

@Panicsonic:
Thank you, your case study is hugely helpful! I have modified the structure of download area according to your feedback.
The sole purpose of making the 'bse' edition was to avoid this problem. But making it and naming it verbosely 'Bassmidi + Soundfont Edition' was clearly not enough. I also thought 'preconfigured' is an attracting word. :)
Please, check it and tell me if it is more intuitive for you now.

@Kaminari:
SC-88 reset SysEx is already detected but it's simply displayed as GS similarly to SC-VA. Since I have more space problems than Tmidi with my current interface (essentially only 2/3 characters fit) I do not know if a pure '88' would be more informative than 'GS'. I have not met yet the Pro and ED SysEx reset versions. If you have some example midi files, please send me them.

Edit: One of my 88 specific midi files also screws up TMIDI player and it displays all instruments as '-------' (file attached). That's the reason I have not even tried to be too smart so I simply let the user pick up the appropriate instrument file (I hope you have already found it: Main menu->Instruments->Custom patch definitions and select SC-VA 55/88/Pro/8820).
U.N. Owen was Her.zip
(10.31 KiB) Downloaded 11 times

Edit2: I think I have found the reason while TMIDI fails. The above midi is really for 8820/8850 and uses bank LSB for 88 Pro variation.
Also TMIDI is rather GS oriented. In case of XG files I cannot get proper Instruments and other system values (reverb/chorus type, etc) even if I turn on Yamaha emulation. Though I have made the changes half blind since I do not understand the Japanese interface.
Guitar_XG.zip
(5.64 KiB) Downloaded 8 times


Ps: The 'first' version of FSMP is also more than 10 years old. :) It was created primarily to handle/load SB Live soundfonts through sfman32.dll.
And if so anniversaries, FSMP (and me) is one year old on Vogons. Thanks for the community (especially James-F) for helping to improve it!
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby lukeman3000 » 2017-5-24 @ 15:17

Built-in Dual Synth setup allows you to get full 16 channel GM mode as well a special 16 channel MT-32 mode.

Is this better than vanilla Munt in some way? Do any games actually use this special dual-synth mode, or more channels than vanilla Munt offers? How would you know on a per-game basis?

It also says it has a special GM mode -- what does a GM mode mean in the context of an MT-32 emulator? That if a game supports general midi, but not mt-32, it will work? Why would someone want to send GM to an mt-32 emulator? I'm sure I am simply not understanding this correctly.

In general (and in layman's terms, preferably), why should I consider using the Munt VSTi over vanilla Munt?
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Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-5-24 @ 16:14

Do any games actually use this special dual-synth mode, or more channels than vanilla Munt offers?

No.
That if a game supports general midi, but not mt-32, it will work?

Yes.
Why would someone want to send GM to an mt-32 emulator? I'm sure I am simply not understanding this correctly.

Good question (Where's Roland User when he's needed? ) :)
There are people who desperately wanted this. Look at the SC-VA thread where you come from:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=46111&start=340#p558236
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=46111&start=360#p568815
Anyway the special sound/mood of Munt/MT-32 makes it truly interesting to listen some GM midis on it. Strictly not for purists!
Try e.g. some Warcraft 2 midis. I really like how they sound.
Roland itself released an official pack in 1993 that made the MT-32 somewhat GM compatible ( but of course only 9 channels out of 16 could be used).

But obviously there are more legitimate scenarios where it can be useful/interesting.
Since it's a VSTi plugin its use is not restricted to retro gaming.
In general (and in layman's terms, preferably), why should I consider using the Munt VSTi over vanilla Munt?

Any advantages that a VSTi plugin offers... (used together with effects, in a DAW, etc.)
For retro gamers like you:
1. It's portable, so no installation is required (works just like SYXG-50) .
2. If you use a VSTHost anyway you do not have to change DOSBox's output to switch between e.g. SYXG-50, SC-VA and Munt.
3. Recording the output and changing some settings may be more straight forward than on standard Munt.
+ It works on Win9x :)
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