SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-9-28 @ 18:43

yes, it is constant number. also appear in safe mode dos.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-9-29 @ 14:02

i also run SetMul on core i7 3770 (34x100). result:
1) latest cwsdpmi is NOT WORK. but i found good old version:
Causeway v0.90+ (r5) 2000 from 28.03.2001 size 20125 bytes.
also this version work on P3 also. attached, if interesting :)
2) cpu freq detected properly - 3415 mhz. mult detected as 5.0 :D
Attachments
CWSDPMI.EXE
very old, but work cwsdpmi...
(19.65 KiB) Downloaded 38 times
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-10-01 @ 20:46

That is interesting.
Good to see it detecting the Core i7 speed. With such CPUs the TSC readout can get thrown off by multiple cores and speedstep switching.
Multiplier detection in SetMul will have to be disabled for anything past a P3 Tualatin, in a future version.

I found a Pentium III 800 6,0x133 SL4MB, so I can try that to try and replicate your first report.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby Falcosoft » 2017-10-01 @ 23:56

Good to see it detecting the Core i7 speed. With such CPUs the TSC readout can get thrown off by multiple cores and speedstep switching.

Under DOS/Win9x only the bootstrap CPU core is active the OS does not activate/use the other cores so proper TSC reading is not affected. Also from the Core2 Intel CPUs use Invariant TSC so TSC reading is not affected by speedstep either.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-10-02 @ 13:40

yes, in dos (and 9x) work only one core (except AMIDIag and IBM PC Doctor, this programs CAN enable other cores for own tests, but often hangs after). i am not sure, that this cpu can do boost in dos. all programs, that i try, show 3400 mhz, and also in 9x. also cpu temperature match this freq, not idle nor 4300.
but in bios i set boost up to 4300/4100 for 2 and 4 cores, and under xp/7/linux i see, that cpus work at freq 1600-4300.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby telecommand » 2017-10-19 @ 20:57

clueless1 wrote:I moved my POD200MMX into a SS7 motherboard which let me overclock it to 83x3=250Mhz. Here is a new speed profile. One thing I noticed in this retest is that Ultima 7: The Black Gate, which is well-known to be immune to disabling L1 cache, is NOT immune to the test registers BPD (branch prediction), CCD (L1 code cache), DCD (L1 data cache), and VPD (V Pipeline). So if your CPU supports the test registers, you can disable combinations of these to get Ultima 7 to a playable speed! I wrongly assumed previously that CCD+DCD is equivalent to L1D, which proved out wrong when I ran the game with "setmul L1D" and watched it run at full speed. On my system, U7 played perfectly with the setmul switches CCD+DCD (which I give a "Performs Like" rating of 486DX-25).

I also threw in results for my real 486DX2-66 for reference. Lastly, I ranked the results by the sum of the real game benchmarks of Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, and Quake, then rated each speed zone as a ratio of the real DX2-66 game sums.

Notably, many of the synthetic benchmark results vary wildly with different combinations of these test registers.

The slowest result on the chart plays Wing Commander I too fast with few enemies on screen, and with a screenful of enemies it *almost* plays at perfect speed, still a bit too fast. So that seems to jive with the "Performs Like" rating of 486SX-20.

P250MMX_SETMUL.jpg

Thank you for your efforts! I have the same CPU currently so this helps me out a lot.

Have you managed to find a *sweet* spot for Wing Commander yet? Is it possible to get a consistent speed in this game or are you always going to get fluctuating framerates?
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 and AMD K6 Mobile

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-11-01 @ 17:25

gerwin wrote:Pentium P54C test register "TR12" options. Parameters:
BPD - Disable Branch Prediction
VPD - Disable V Pipeline
L1DX - Disable L1 cache exclusively
CCD - Disable L1 code cache
DCD - Disable L1 data cache
PFE - Pentium Features Enable; Resets the above TR12 options to default.
The status of register TR12 cannnot be read by design.
i read all posts above, but anyway cant undrestand - on Pentium MMX aka P55C these options applicable?
=====
and more... its possible make self-boot diskette (non-dos, only very small boot sector code with SetMul core and nothing more) for donwclocking and disable L1/L2 before immediate boot to second diskette with any other self-bootable game? i think, it is cool idea...
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby gerwin » 2017-11-01 @ 23:43

Yes these TR12 options are tested to work on all types of P55C too. (Although at first I had the idea that it did not work with these, but that is not true)

Why use boot diskettes? You can have SetMul on your harddrive and toggle the setting you want from there, then run the game you want, then afterwards toggle things back to default with SetMul. etc. The CPU registers which are changed with SetMul remain that way until you change them back, or until you do a reboot.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-11-02 @ 10:29

gerwin wrote:The CPU registers which are changed with SetMul remain that way until you change them back, or until you do a reboot.

yes, sure. but there is some things, which made as self-bootable diskette w/o any DOS core. for sample - Castle Wolfenstein. Or any NON-DOS Operating System...
what i want do:
insert floppy with tiny SetMul core only boot code,
reboot comp, then machine load this core code, does tweaks (drop multiplier, disable L1/L2, etc), say Press any key, and wait,
i change floppy, or just remove it, press key, and machine continue boot from next floppy or hdd... BUT NOW WITH LOW SPEED!
ie, we can slowdown almost any program, include self botable game or NT/OS2...
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-11-03 @ 17:12

i check now, as L1D and L2D can work on my i7.
L1D pass OK w/o errors. L2D pass, but with CWSDPMI crash.
after this, all work good, and my i7 really begin work slow.
NU sysinfo say that it is Pentium 73 :D instead 3400.
its will very cool if u make real-mode version w/o cwsdpmi.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby clueless1 » 2017-11-20 @ 11:17

telecommand wrote:Have you managed to find a *sweet* spot for Wing Commander yet? Is it possible to get a consistent speed in this game or are you always going to get fluctuating framerates?

Sorry man, I just saw this. I don't think WC is capable of running at a consistent speed. Philscomputerlab has some videos of WC running on various speed 386s and you can see even there that this applies. I can't remember which he preferred, but I remember him saying that too slow was better than too fast.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby MERCURY127 » 2017-11-22 @ 08:51

Yes, Wing Com work very good on P3 after executing setmul l1d l2d.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby telecommand » 2017-11-28 @ 07:26

I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong... I have a Pentium OD 200 MMX and I don't seem to see much of a difference in Wing Commander when I run setmul. Is there a way to check the current speed after running it to confirm it actually did something?

I have setmul saved in c: and after booting to DOS I type 'setmul l1d bpd vpd' and hit enter. It looks like it did it but when I run WC it still runs fast as hell it's barely playable... According to that table my CPU should run like a 386DX-25. Am I doing it wrong?
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby clueless1 » 2017-11-28 @ 10:46

telecommand wrote:I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong... I have a Pentium OD 200 MMX and I don't seem to see much of a difference in Wing Commander when I run setmul. Is there a way to check the current speed after running it to confirm it actually did something?

I have setmul saved in c: and after booting to DOS I type 'setmul l1d bpd vpd' and hit enter. It looks like it did it but when I run WC it still runs fast as hell it's barely playable... According to that table my CPU should run like a 386DX-25. Am I doing it wrong?

Here's some benchmarks for you to test with:
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-be ... -pack.html
Use Speedsys 4.78. It's quick and gives you a number that's on my Cachebench chart that you can use to compare with.
The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.
Let's benchmark our systems with cache disabled
DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby telecommand » 2017-11-28 @ 23:12

Great. Thanks. I'll see if I can get some time to look into this tonight.
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby telecommand » 2017-11-29 @ 07:57

Hmm OK, so Speedsys gives me a score of 25.7 with L1D+BPD+VPD. Maybe I was just expecting WC to run slower than it is? Guess I just have to get faster with the joystick :blush:
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby clueless1 » 2017-11-29 @ 11:21

telecommand wrote:Hmm OK, so Speedsys gives me a score of 25.7 with L1D+BPD+VPD. Maybe I was just expecting WC to run slower than it is? Guess I just have to get faster with the joystick :blush:

That score puts it in 486 territory. Are you disabling L2 cache? You will have to do it through your BIOS as Setmul only supports disabling L2 for K6 Mobile and VIA C3.
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DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby telecommand » 2017-11-30 @ 06:43

clueless1 wrote:
telecommand wrote:Hmm OK, so Speedsys gives me a score of 25.7 with L1D+BPD+VPD. Maybe I was just expecting WC to run slower than it is? Guess I just have to get faster with the joystick :blush:

That score puts it in 486 territory. Are you disabling L2 cache? You will have to do it through your BIOS as Setmul only supports disabling L2 for K6 Mobile and VIA C3.

Ah that's probably it! I will give this a go. Thanks :blush:
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby telecommand » 2017-11-30 @ 22:54

That did it! Got a score of around 12.5 after disabling L2 cache in BIOS. WC runs perfectly now. Thanks for your help with this!
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Re: SetMul - Multiplier control for VIA C3 / AMD K6 Mobile / Cyrix 5x86

Postby clueless1 » 2017-12-01 @ 00:13

telecommand wrote:That did it! Got a score of around 12.5 after disabling L2 cache in BIOS. WC runs perfectly now. Thanks for your help with this!

That's great! Have fun :)
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DOS PCI Graphics Card Benchmarks
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