VOGONS


First post, by Tronix

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Hello,

Some days ago i finished build my CMS-compatible replica:

0f2a1c5275fb422c899b15c73ad96d9e.JPG

More details about circuit you can find at vintage-computer.com forum.

So, adopting experience of Innovation SSI-2001 MIDI fun, I tried to do the same thing with CMS. I downloaded source code of Miles Sound System Version 2 (AIL2) from John Miles site and modify Tandy driver (SPKR.INC) to work with Creative Music System card. Only the default IO address (220h) is currently supported. Driver is simple, no special CMS features used (such as noise generator and envelope). But it's work. 😉

Theoretical, right now Creative Music System can support 200+ games. I sucessfully tested MDI driver with Warcraft II and Heroes of Might and Magic II.
Video: Warcraft II game with CMS

Feedback is welcome.

Attachments

  • Filename
    cms_miles_drv.zip
    File size
    7.28 KiB
    Downloads
    173 downloads
    File comment
    Miles CMS .ADV and .MDI drivers
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    adv_source.zip
    File size
    24.14 KiB
    Downloads
    104 downloads
    File comment
    Miles CMS ADV source code
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by Tronix on 2015-05-31, 05:06. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 23, by keropi

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wow nice job!
I need to ask though: are there plans to make a pcb of this? is the replica 100% faithful or it's a WIP?

🎵Link to buy a PCMIDI mpu
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💻WTB Amstrad PC7486SLC-33 system

Reply 2 of 23, by carlostex

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keropi wrote:

wow nice job!
is the replica 100% faithful or it's a WIP?

If one can fully figure out what exactly the CT1302A custom logic chip is doing then i guess it should be possible to create a fully replica card. I guess some GAL's could do the job as well. This would be very nice as CMS cards are getting extremely expensive. 😎

EDIT: Too bad we haven't heard from Yvan and his Covox Sound Master, as the PCB Fagear is copying is still missing some hidden traces. And then James Pearce is working on the IBM Tandy sound adapter. shock__ is cloning an Ultrasound Pnp and he already delivered a compatible DSS design. The future of IBM retro computing is bright. 😁

Reply 4 of 23, by Great Hierophant

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carlostex wrote:
keropi wrote:

wow nice job!
is the replica 100% faithful or it's a WIP?

If one can fully figure out what exactly the CT1302A custom logic chip is doing then i guess it should be possible to create a fully replica card. I guess some GAL's could do the job as well. This would be very nice as CMS cards are getting extremely expensive. 😎

EDIT: Too bad we haven't heard from Yvan and his Covox Sound Master, as the PCB Fagear is copying is still missing some hidden traces. And then James Pearce is working on the IBM Tandy sound adapter. shock__ is cloning an Ultrasound Pnp and he already delivered a compatible DSS design. The future of IBM retro computing is bright. 😁

In discrete logic he did all that was required for all known games and the CMS software to detect the card, no more is necessary.

I did not know that Warcraft II had a Russian translation. I assume it is unofficial due to the stray English in the menu. If the current video gives a sample from the board pictured in the original post, then the signal sounds remarkably cleaner than the earlier recordings on VCF.

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/ - Nerdly Pleasures - My Retro Gaming, Computing & Tech Blog

Reply 6 of 23, by Tronix

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Great Hierophant wrote:

I did not know that Warcraft II had a Russian translation. I assume it is unofficial due to the stray English in the menu.

Yes, it's unofficial.

Great Hierophant wrote:

If the current video gives a sample from the board pictured in the original post, then the signal sounds remarkably cleaner than the earlier recordings on VCF.

Video captured in DosBox with sbtype=gb settings in dosbox.conf file. Yesterday I tried to use operation amplifier (left chip on the PCB), but confused with power (reverse -12V and +12V) - so, this chip is dead and currently nowhere connected. Audio output still going directly from SAA1099 chips with help resistive divider as mixer. I think, using operation amplifier - bad idea and i want to use TEA2025 special amplifier.

Reply 7 of 23, by carlostex

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Great Hierophant wrote:

In discrete logic he did all that was required for all known games and the CMS software to detect the card, no more is necessary.

Great news then, it would be nice to see a cheap replica. Originals go for way too much money these days.

Reply 8 of 23, by kpuchatek

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Wow ! Congratulation ! Waiting for shop with retro PC cards 😀
It seems, it is easier to get new stuff for 8-bit computers than for PC, but I hope it will change - prices are getting crazy.

Reply 9 of 23, by Tronix

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Today i found KA2206N stereo amplifier (TEA2025 analog). I solder this chip to my board. I used reference circuit from KA2206 datasheet.

6e357085091f49a882e821fdb5c3bfac.JPG

Then i solder filter 0,01mF capacitors from Sam Coupe SAA1099 circuit:

f527de375aa74150b0ede8c7e0ac520f.JPG

Sound still not clean, digital noise present. I think it's because of the tangle of wires. Originally under the chips have a large ground polygon. I leave everything as it is. Some new records from board:

Reply 10 of 23, by keropi

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AFAIR there are some games that need a real GameBlaster to work (and won't work with a CT1320+CMS chips for example) , do these games work with the replica?

🎵Link to buy a PCMIDI mpu
🎧Orpheus soundcard project
💻WTB Amstrad PC7486SLC-33 system

Reply 11 of 23, by Tronix

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keropi wrote:

AFAIR there are some games that need a real GameBlaster to work (and won't work with a CT1320+CMS chips for example) , do these games work with the replica?

Which games?
I'm tested: Monkey Island, Loom, Indiana Jones, Night Shift, Miami Vice. And, of course, all games with my AIL driver (Warcraft 2, Hi-Octane, Dune, Heroes II)..

Reply 12 of 23, by keropi

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^ there is a list here by GH: http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.gr/2012/10/al … know-about.html , he states that for example Altered Destiny , Arkanoid II, Bubble Bobble and some more need a real gameblaster

🎵Link to buy a PCMIDI mpu
🎧Orpheus soundcard project
💻WTB Amstrad PC7486SLC-33 system

Reply 13 of 23, by Great Hierophant

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keropi wrote:

^ there is a list here by GH: http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.gr/2012/10/al … know-about.html , he states that for example Altered Destiny , Arkanoid II, Bubble Bobble and some more need a real gameblaster

He said he replicated DOSBox's Game Blaster detection method with discrete logic in this thread : www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum/showth ... post368925, so all those games should work correctly in his replica. If he can get the noise floor under control, then this would be a fabulous addition.

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/ - Nerdly Pleasures - My Retro Gaming, Computing & Tech Blog

Reply 14 of 23, by Fagear

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Hello, everyone.
carlostex brought me to this topic. He thought that probably it is a good idea to made a board with CMS and SID on one PCB.
But... When I was working on SSI-2001 replica I had a thought that probably it is a great idea to build an "all-in-one" board. PCM output probably can be dropped. But could be not: put some ESS/Vibra ICs and you are good to go. WaveTable is not an option: too many variants. So it can be left for wavetable header.
But if we can get all FM-type synthesis together on one board!... CMS, SID, OPL-3, AY8930, etc. Just think about it. One ISA board with all-FM-synthesis, standard ports, jumper-configurable, SMD components for compactness.
Probably include MIDI-port from Music Quest PC MIDI board.
What do you think? 😕

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
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My audio/video collection.

Reply 15 of 23, by carlostex

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In my opinion there are 2 top quality options for Sound Blaster Pro 2 + OPL3 compatibility:

1- Crystal CS4232 + OPL3 + YAC512;

2- Yamaha YMF-71x series;

3- Vibra;

4- ESS;

The first option is probably the one everyone pushing for while the second one is probably by far the easiest one to implement. The Vibra option is somewhat lackluster and the ESS one is decent although not authentic and PCM won't be as good as the Crystal or YMF options.

A board that would combine CMS, Innovation and SB2/SB Pro 2 would be excellent. Specially for compact retro builds who don't have a lot of ISA slots to spare. The inclusion of MIDI Quest compatibility would be great but i'm wondering how much such card would cost. Remember that Innovation alone wasn't bank breaking but also not cheap.

I thought that for starters Innovation SSI-2001 + CMS all in one would be a great start. It would allow you to use 2 standards in one and still use Sound Blaster Pro cards which can run in XT's and the like. Sound Blasters are easy to find, and the main idea would be making something like CMS affordable while adding SID as bonus and saving an ISA slot.

If by any chance James can finish the Tandy sound adapter this one would be a great addition too. A single, multi PSG board that would support more than a hundred games.

Reply 16 of 23, by hard1k

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Hi guys,
Great idea IMHO. What about implementing such an all-in-one FM card on a daughterboard for the ARGUS project (if it ever happens to be completed)?

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 17 of 23, by carlostex

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hard1k wrote:

Hi guys,
Great idea IMHO. What about implementing such an all-in-one FM card on a daughterboard for the ARGUS project (if it ever happens to be completed)?

An all in one card in form of a daughterboard for the ARGUS would be just too much. It would just over complicate the design of the ARGUS to make all the hardware on the daughterboard to function properly.

I think the ARGUS is fine as it is. The idea here is to make to simple cards, which are mostly based around glue logic, to work as one to save ISA slots. The ARGUS is way more complex IMO.

Reply 18 of 23, by hard1k

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Just can't agree with you - there are many people interested in giving ARGUS some sort of additional integration, suggesting Vibra/OPL3/other ICs, but the approach towards the whole project resulted in that a special ISA header has been implemented. And this header (with additional headers for Line-In/Line-Out) provides for such daughterboards. A special daughterboard carrying several ICs for different non-Wavetable synthesis that do not require additional IRQs/DMAs/whatsoever shouldn't give any problems. And it will be a highly integrated solution - a one slot device covering GUS and different FM standards.

New sound card project: AWE64 Legacy
Please have a look at my wishlist (hosted at Amibay)

Reply 19 of 23, by carlostex

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It's up to shock__ if he wants to add a header for a daughtercard with FM synthesis. If he agrees on doing it absolutely fine.

But for this i would rather have an 8bit multi PSG style standard ISA card. James Pearce told me the Tandy Sound Adapter design is finished, so we could combine several PSG in a single card. Fagear suggested AY-8930 but i don't know how easy is to make the board compatible with Covox Sound Master since the replica is not finalized.

But image a board compatible with:

Innovation (MOS SID)
Game Blaster (Phillips SAA1099p PSG)
Tandy (SN76489 PSG) no DAC
Sound Master (AY 8930 PSG) if possible...

This would be a board that would support hundreds of games, mostly with Game Blaster and Tandy support.

I don't know if its feasible to have Covox SM and Innovation in the same board since the default port on both cards was 280h.

In my opinion the best option to add Sound Blaster 2.0 and Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 + OPL3 would be using the YMF-71x chipset, which includes excellent codec and MPU-401 UART capabilities. Also YMF-71x cards are easy to source and have rather simple layouts which should be pretty easy to replicate.

Hypothetically the YMF-71x chipset could be used to emulate the Tandy DAC which would give additional functionality to the board.

Or we could make the board just AdLib compatible by adding a single OPL2.

Here's the schematic for the Tandy sound adapter btw:

800px-Tandy-Sound-Adapter-r01.png