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SBVGM (DOS) VGM Player

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Reply 440 of 507, by SuperDeadite

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2022-08-06, 04:06:

Hi OPLx, I must have forgot that the SAAYM soundcard allow to play Genesis/Megadrive VGM, and most of them sound perfect ! But I realized that one of the very best soundtrack for the console was not plaing properly, it's the Dune music from Cryo. The music by Stephane Picq and Philippe Ulrich is something unique and very good. There are many version and I would suggest you take a look at it if you do not know it already. The game is turn based strategy, I think the best version must have been on PC.

Unfortunately the music is only playing some random sound. The files of that game are very big and if I render them as ROM on the Genesis it take three cartridge to hold it. But the player can play other big music, so the size must not be an issue. I read your note about the YM2612 support in SBVGM.TXT and I see some limitations : I dont think there is sample playback on those VGZ, the frequency range do not seem like a problem. So my guess would be the SSG-EG envelope thing or the LFO that must be missing on the YM2151. The VGM are huge and the musics is not particularly complex, so that's why I think maybe the problem could be a controller like the LFO or the SSG-EG ?

Using VGMTool 2 R5 I could not find anything particular but I think there is another VGM tool analyzer that could help see what's the problem with that soundtrack. Right now vgmrips.net is down and I do not have it. Maybe are you aware of the problem already ? In any case I'll leave the smallest .vgz here: 06 chani's eyes.zip (I'm aware it's useless to zip a vgz but the forum dont let me upload it otherwise)

Hi, I just took a look at your file, and it absolutely contains custom ym2612 DAC samples. There are actually very few MegaDrive games that don't use samples. And while I don't have a SAAYM or have ever used SBVGM (I'm an MSX user myself), the ym2151 is a pure FM device, it has no ability to stream samples. (On MSX we use a combination of ym2151, and MSX Turbo-R's internal PCM chip to support the ym2612.)

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 441 of 507, by OPLx

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2022-08-06, 04:06:

Hi OPLx, I must have forgot that the SAAYM soundcard allow to play Genesis/Megadrive VGM, and most of them sound perfect ! But I realized that one of the very best soundtrack for the console was not plaing properly, it's the Dune music from Cryo. The music by Stephane Picq and Philippe Ulrich is something unique and very good. There are many version and I would suggest you take a look at it if you do not know it already. The game is turn based strategy, I think the best version must have been on PC.

Unfortunately the music is only playing some random sound. The files of that game are very big and if I render them as ROM on the Genesis it take three cartridge to hold it. But the player can play other big music, so the size must not be an issue. I read your note about the YM2612 support in SBVGM.TXT and I see some limitations : I dont think there is sample playback on those VGZ, the frequency range do not seem like a problem. So my guess would be the SSG-EG envelope thing or the LFO that must be missing on the YM2151. The VGM are huge and the musics is not particularly complex, so that's why I think maybe the problem could be a controller like the LFO or the SSG-EG ?

Using VGMTool 2 R5 I could not find anything particular but I think there is another VGM tool analyzer that could help see what's the problem with that soundtrack. Right now vgmrips.net is down and I do not have it. Maybe are you aware of the problem already ? In any case I'll leave the smallest .vgz here: 06 chani's eyes.zip (I'm aware it's useless to zip a vgz but the forum dont let me upload it otherwise)

ElBrunzy, somehow you have this amazing ability to find VGMs that expose bugs in SBVGM! 😀 I tried it and what it sounds like is that the note delays that ought to play don't until after a while. I will have to analyze and track down where the problem is and fix it as soon as I have a chance. Thank you as always! 👍

[Edit]
So I took a look at the VGM data and I think the problem may be that for a good part of the beginning of the data, there are no VGM wait commands, but Timer B commands. If I recall many Genesis/MegaDrive games tied the music update to the VSYNC interrupt and it seems that this particular game may have polled on Timer B the updates. I can't say for certain if this is the problem, but I do know that SBVGM doesn't translate YM2612 Timer A and Timer B values. I'm very curious what this VGM would sound like on.

Reply 442 of 507, by ElBrunzy

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Hi SuperDeadite and OPLx, thank you for quickly analyzing the problem. Now vgmrips.net being back on track I can see that Dune on the genesis was a SEGA CD game and so it use the RF5C164 for sample playback. I checked another game from the SEGA CD (Silpheed) and it play correctly the FM part, simply ignoring the PCM call to the RF5C164. So while SuperDeadite might be right about having samples I believe it might not be the problem. OPLx comment on timer is interesting too, listening to those music feel like they are simply playing too fast...

Writing this post while listening to it I realized the garbage chunk at the start of the music sound the same on all music of the soundtrack. If you dont skip it (press ESC) after a while it eventually start to play correctly to my surprise 😮 ! Reading the history of the Dune rip on vgmrip, we learn that Kaminari did many version of it's rip. The obvious solution would be to simply remove the chunk on my personal copy, but I think the most sensible thing to do would be contact Kaminari on vgmrip, which I will do and get back to you here. I guess if all else fails I can post a fixed rip on this forum too.

OPLx, since you told me you would be curious to know what it sound like I understand you did not know that soundtrack, I like it very much as it's quite ambient so not distracting, but melodic enough to bring good energy to keep you motivated, so I listen to it often when I'm doing stuff that require concentration. The PC version is very similar and it play well on SBVGM using YM3812, it is also available on dune ibm pc at vgmrips.net. I would believe they did the PC version first and they ported it on SEGA CD as faithfully as possible, and it's where SBVGM shine as it allow you to appreciate the small differences, some are good and some are worst, that's why it's best to have both.

Reply 443 of 507, by ElBrunzy

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ooh the hat of shame is an heavy one to wear 😳, before contacting Kaminari I made sure I had latest version of his rip and apparently I did not and it play perfectly now... I made you waste your time because of this and I feel terribly sorry about that 😔

Reply 444 of 507, by OPLx

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2022-08-07, 21:50:

ooh the hat of shame is an heavy one to wear 😳, before contacting Kaminari I made sure I had latest version of his rip and apparently I did not and it play perfectly now... I made you waste your time because of this and I feel terribly sorry about that 😔

No worries at all! That's one of the difficulties about the VGM format in that there are so many different variations out there. At least we now know what the actual source of the problem was. 👍

Reply 445 of 507, by sofakng

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How accurate is sound when played on a different chip than recorded with?

For example, how accurate is a VGM from a YM2151 played back on a YMF262 ("OPL3") ?

The YM2151 is an "FM Operator Type-M" and the YMF262 is "FM Operator Type-L"... I'm not sure what they means, but can these different FM chips be "converted" between each other for near-perfect/accurate playback?

Reply 446 of 507, by SuperDeadite

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sofakng wrote on 2022-10-17, 03:03:

How accurate is sound when played on a different chip than recorded with?

For example, how accurate is a VGM from a YM2151 played back on a YMF262 ("OPL3") ?

The YM2151 is an "FM Operator Type-M" and the YMF262 is "FM Operator Type-L"... I'm not sure what they means, but can these different FM chips be "converted" between each other for near-perfect/accurate playback?

OPM and OPL3 are very different chips and can't cover each other. OPL3 can cover OPL2 and OPL. OPM is pure FM device. So it can cover OPN, OPNA, OPNB FM channels, but not their SSG and ADPCM parts.

Modules: CM-64, CM-500, SC-55MkII, SC-88 Pro, SY22, TG100, MU2000EX, PLG100-SG, PLG150-DR, PLG150-AN, SG01k, NS5R, GZ-50M, SN-U110-07, SN-U110-10, Pocket Studio 5, DreamBlaster S2, X2, McFly, E-Wave, QWave, CrystalBlaster C2, Yucatan FX, BeepBlaster

Reply 448 of 507, by madaxe

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autoexecdotbat wrote on 2016-03-02, 16:10:

hello, I have a few sugestions for new features:
1. ay8910 support (there's a pretty good dos ay emulator by marsel de cogel that some old emulators use)
2. for sn77489: add tandy 3 voice support, it's the same sound chip.

Hello! Where can I download that ay emulator from marsel de cogel?

Reply 449 of 507, by OPLx

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madaxe wrote on 2022-11-18, 19:14:

Hello! Where can I download that ay emulator from marsel de cogel?

SBVGM doesn't use any internal emulation, but you might be able to find something at Marcel de Kogel's Homepage.

Reply 450 of 507, by madaxe

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OPLx wrote on 2022-11-19, 01:39:
madaxe wrote on 2022-11-18, 19:14:

Hello! Where can I download that ay emulator from marsel de cogel?

SBVGM doesn't use any internal emulation, but you might be able to find something at Marcel de Kogel's Homepage.

Thank you!
I'm coding an AY music player for DOS and like you I'm using a Game Blaster Card to output the sound but isn't quite perfect and the DOSBox GB emulation is not 100% perfect.

Reply 451 of 507, by OPLx

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madaxe wrote on 2022-11-19, 10:31:

Thank you!
I'm coding an AY music player for DOS and like you I'm using a Game Blaster Card to output the sound but isn't quite perfect and the DOSBox GB emulation is not 100% perfect.

No problem, have fun making the player! You're right about DOSBox's GB emulation. I haven't (yet) found a DOS emulator that has good GB emulation.

Reply 452 of 507, by spaztron64

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Hello OPLx,

I've been testing some Atari ST tunes on my PC-98, and came across the issue where samples (a.k.a. digidrums) don't play properly with SBVGM. No such issue occurs on regular VGMPlay, so I'm gonna assume that this is just a timing issue.
Example recordings: https://www.mediafire.com/file/7jc0ngfq5ymsv4 … t_pc98.zip/file

Reply 453 of 507, by OPLx

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spaztron64 wrote on 2022-12-28, 23:31:

Hello OPLx,

I've been testing some Atari ST tunes on my PC-98, and came across the issue where samples (a.k.a. digidrums) don't play properly with SBVGM. No such issue occurs on regular VGMPlay, so I'm gonna assume that this is just a timing issue.
Example recordings: https://www.mediafire.com/file/7jc0ngfq5ymsv4 … t_pc98.zip/file

Hello!

This is a known issue with SBVGM; there's currently no support for sample playback because the amount of CPU used will be too high on top of the amount of time already taken to handle the VGM playback. I have been thinking on and off how to address this without having to resort to processing the VGM data, but I have not had much time lately to try any experiments.

Putting the things together by Scali has a nice summary of the issue.

When SBVGM was originally written, it had a very narrow scope: Try to get NES VGMs to playback on the SAA1099 and there are still foundational aspects that are tied to that. Knowing what I know now, I would likely re-write the whole program in assembly language (for speed) if I had the time.

Reply 454 of 507, by OPLx

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SBVGM v1.42 is available from: http://www.oplx.com/code/

This update includes:

  • Added preliminary OPL4 support.

Notes

  • For OPL4-based sound cards, it will be necessary to have used a utility (such as OPTi82c929_Driver ) that properly initializes the sound card to use the OPL4; SBVGM won't do this.
  • It won't work on OPL4-based sound cards that don't allow direct hardware access (such as some OPL4-based daughter boards).
  • Currently only ROM-based OPL4 VGMs will playback correctly since most OPL4-based PC sound cards don't have any additional RAM (and I don't have access to the ones that do to adequately test).

Examples of VGMs that playback are:

For the the MoonDriver Demo, encounter the unknown environment plays back, but there are some slight discrepancies likely because there seems to be a RAM sample that is used. TIME'S UP! won't sound correct as it uses sample data stored in RAM.

Hopefully one day there will be a 4MB RAM-based OPL4 device for PCs in similar vein to what exists in the MSX scene.

Reply 455 of 507, by Mowmow

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Hello, is there any news on supporting the retrowave opl3 express? it uses the Yamaha YMF262-M chip. I tried using all command options while running SBVGM in DosBox-X (that supports the retrowave olp3) and none work :c

Reply 456 of 507, by OPLx

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Mowmow wrote on 2023-04-03, 12:15:

Hello, is there any news on supporting the retrowave opl3 express? it uses the Yamaha YMF262-M chip. I tried using all command options while running SBVGM in DosBox-X (that supports the retrowave olp3) and none work :c

If you've setup the RetroWave OPL3 Express to work properly under DosBox-X and it works with other programs (games, music programs), SBVGM should work as well. Perhaps trying

SBVGM -opl3 filename.vgm

might work?

Reply 457 of 507, by RetroGC

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Hi,
first of all thank you. Marvelous software. I've downloaded it after setting up a windows 98 system with OPL3 LPT. (Now I'm trying to understand how OPL3LPT sound and so i decided to set up an old notebook T0shiba 430CDS (It has an ESS88 which is seen as a soundblaster and this one to me seems sounding great...).

I've seen that with SBVGM32 under windows 95 (as it's a poor Intel Pentium 133, sometime... I've slowdown). According to you. under real dos on a pentium 133mhz do I'll have a fine playback with OPL3 VGM/VGZ everytime or this could be not enough hardware?

Thank you.

Aldo

My Videogames Music Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RetroGamesClub

Reply 458 of 507, by ElBrunzy

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Hi RetroGC, I'm a big fan of SBVGM.EXE and I enjoy it on similar computer as yours. While I prefer to run it in msdos environment, it work well under windows 9x. I remember OPLx told me that you have to make command.com run full-screen though (alt-enter) otherwise it will suffer from random slowdown. So I assume you run it in a windowed command box and those slowdown are normal. OPLx sustain efforts to have the player run on a cpu as slow as a 8088, so you are safe with a pentium-133 and should you disable caches to emulate an 386, you'd still have margin.

What are your favorite VGM ?

Cheers 😀

Reply 459 of 507, by RetroGC

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ElBrunzy wrote on 2023-05-19, 22:17:

What are your favorite VGM ?

Cheers 😀

If we are talkin about chipset, i bought my first original soundblaster in 1992, so OPL2/3... then i would really like to have han hardware for YM2151 and YM2608.

My Videogames Music Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/RetroGamesClub