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Reply 1760 of 1866, by Roland User

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Hi Zoltan )
As I now known in DOSBOX-x will be integrated Enhanced ESFM synthesis ) https://dosbox-x.com/release-2024.03.01.html , and here https://github.com/Kagamiin/ESFMu , If you not hard , please add this in your OPL3VSTi plugin ) I for a long want return ESS1868 and sound Enhanced ESFM )

Reply 1761 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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Roland User wrote on 2024-05-26, 12:50:

Hi Zoltan )
As I now known in DOSBOX-x will be integrated Enhanced ESFM synthesis ) https://dosbox-x.com/release-2024.03.01.html , and here https://github.com/Kagamiin/ESFMu , If you not hard , please add this in your OPL3VSTi plugin ) I for a long want return ESS1868 and sound Enhanced ESFM )

Hi,
In the current form I could only add ESFM in OPL3 compatibility mode since the Midi frontend of the plugin can only handle the registers in this mode (that is it would sound the same as OPL3 in the best case).
The ESFM native mode would require a new plugin with a new Midi frontend. But this would further require the original or reverse engineered source of the Windows ESFM Midi driver. OPL3 VSTi currently uses the released source of the generic OPL3 driver from MS for the Midi frontend that knows nothing about ESFM native mode.
In DosBox-x this is not a problem since under DOS the ESFMu is enough for Games/OPL trackers and under Win3.1 and Win 9x (running in DosBox-x) the Windows ESS drivers can be installed.

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Reply 1762 of 1866, by Roland User

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Just this largest problem ) because need create GM ESFM in synth , I'll have it soon DOSBOX VM with Win9x and drivers for ESFM , I want you studied MIDI driver , and if be accuracy , you need extract settings patchsets from GM ESFM and next import this result to your OPL3VSTi ) I think what this will be enough for majority users )
I not want emulator ESFM in all its manifestations and absoluty accuracy I want recive only GM patchsets from ESFM )
If you will be need my DOSBOX-X VM with system , I can send this to you )
I ask you to do this , because GM ESFM 1868 this so , what me not lacks ) in childhood I have ESS688 , but next I have ESS1868 and this was be , unique sound something in between ESS688 and AWE64

Last edited by Roland User on 2024-05-26, 17:58. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1763 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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Roland User wrote on 2024-05-26, 17:49:

Just this largest problem ) because need create GM ESFM in synth , I'll have it soon DOSBOX VM with Win9x and drivers for ESFM , I want you studied MIDI driver , and if be accuracy , you need extract settings patchsets from GM ESFM and next import this result to your OPL3VSTi ) I think what this will be enough for majority users )
I not want emulator ESFM in all its manifestations and absoluty accuracy I want recive only GM patchsets from ESFM )
If you will be need my DOSBOX-X VM with system , I can send this to you )

I do not think you fully undertand the situation. The patches of the ESS Windows driver are already extracted. But there is no code (that I have found) that shows how the ESS Windows drivers programmed the registers to sound the way the ESFM ports sounded on Windows.
The extracted patches cannot be used in OPL3 compatibility mode so it does not make any sense to include them in OPL3 GM VSTi since they cannot be used standard OPL3 compatible way.
As I said the native mode would require a new plugin.

Last edited by Falcosoft on 2024-05-26, 18:03. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 1764 of 1866, by Roland User

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What if do easier ?
You can easy read each patch from ESFM in DOSBOX-X as sample , and create simple GM synth with ESFM soundbank , maybe as SF bank ) for me this be enough )
I bad work with loops , and I can not do this sound fonts

Last edited by Roland User on 2024-05-26, 18:05. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1765 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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Roland User wrote on 2024-05-26, 18:02:

What if do easier ?
You can easy read each patch from ESFM in DOSBOX-X as sample , and create simple GM synth with ESFM soundbank , maybe as SF bank ) for me this be enough )
I bad work with loops , because I can not do this sound fonts

For this task please ask someone else who already created OPL3 compatible SF2 soundfonts.

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Reply 1766 of 1866, by Roland User

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Good ) I understanded ) befor I thinked , what be easy convert DOSBOX and ESFMu to OPL with integrate Patch sets )
As it turned out , all more hard than I thought before , after test ESFM , I understood , what sound not like that as I remember ) , maybe cause in drivers , but this not so what I wanted and what remember )
I remember , what before I compare sound ESS1868 me and my friend, and that cards we had different sounds , diffirence was be very large , diffirence was be in bass level and ESFM implementation. Myself card was be verry bass and very very bass , my friend card was be more flat on sound , and ESFM diffirenced )
Unfortunately , I not have those drivers , because all was be lossed after win95cih

Last edited by Roland User on 2024-05-26, 20:50. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1767 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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Roland User wrote on 2024-05-26, 18:08:

Good ) I understanded ) befor I thinked , what be easy convert DOSBOX and ESFMu to OPL with integrate Patch sets )
As it turned out , all more hard than I thought before , after test ESFM , I understood , what sound not like that as I remember ) , maybe cause in drivers , but this not so what I wanted and what remember )
I remember , what before I compare sound ESS1868 me and my friend, and that cards we had different sounds , diffirence was be very large , diffirence was be in bass level and ESFM implementation

Here is how ESFM sounds (ESS 1868) with the less buggy vxd driver on Win98 (contrary to buggy WDM drivers):
Re: Possible to use ES1887 'Midi for Internal ESFM Synthesis' for DOS Games?

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Reply 1768 of 1866, by Roland User

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But I compare on another melody ) I compare with attach file )
If possible , please , write this file from start to end use real ESS1868 sound card with VXD drivers
By the way , I not gammed in games series Doom all parts , and I not gammed in games series GTA all parts )

Attachments

  • Filename
    G.zip
    File size
    8.85 KiB
    Downloads
    13 downloads
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 1769 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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Roland User wrote on 2024-05-26, 21:01:

But I compare on another melody ) I compare with attach file )
If possible , please , write this file from start to end use real ESS1868 sound card with VXD drivers
By the way , I not gammed in games series Doom all parts , and I not gammed in games series GTA all parts )

Hi,
Your attached Midi file is not a good choice for testing any FM synths because it relies on a feature that only Roland/Yamaha synths support by default.
The Fretless Bass instrument at channel 7 relies on the ' only kill last note in case of a Note Off event' feature that is not supported on FM synths, SB HW SF2 synths, Microsot GS Soft Synth etc. Bassmidi supports it with an optional flag.
Without this feature the Bass sounds very bad.

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Reply 1771 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:30:

I love how 75% of the conversation here is between Falcosoft and Roland User 😀

I do not 'love' this situation in all cases but I accept the fact that life is not a bed of roses 😀

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Reply 1772 of 1866, by appiah4

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:50:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:30:

I love how 75% of the conversation here is between Falcosoft and Roland User 😀

I do not 'love' this situation in all cases but I accept the fact that life is not a bed of roses 😀

I kind of don't envy your position but I am quite thankful for having you active here.. So if that means something, thank you.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 1773 of 1866, by pachuco

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-26, 17:56:

But there is no code (that I have found) that shows how the ESS Windows drivers programmed the registers to sound the way the ESFM ports sounded on Windows.

This? https://github.com/leecher1337/esfmbank (sources of both midi driver and a new bank/patch editor)

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-26, 17:56:

The extracted patches cannot be used in OPL3 compatibility mode so it does not make any sense to include them in OPL3 GM VSTi since they cannot be used standard OPL3 compatible way.
As I said the native mode would require a new plugin.

Yes, the ESSFM has features that go above and beyond OPL3.
So, new plugin required.

On the other hand, you can use ESS in OPL3 compat mode. What that gets you is different feedback algo, developed by ESS to skirt Yamaha patents.
It's cleaner sounding(less noisy), and more expensive to emulate.

Reply 1774 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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pachuco wrote on 2024-05-27, 15:27:

This? https://github.com/leecher1337/esfmbank (sources of both midi driver and a new bank/patch editor)

Thanks,
starting from your link I found this:
https://www.codingchords.com/junk/webmidi/esfm-web
This shows how the driver from your link sounds with ESFM emulator. Based on the result I do not think it's worth the effort to make a new plugin around this driver code currently. It seems some more work is still needed to reach the quality of ESS Windows drivers.

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Reply 1775 of 1866, by pachuco

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-27, 16:14:
Thanks, starting from your link I found this: https://www.codingchords.com/junk/webmidi/esfm-web This shows how the driver from […]
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pachuco wrote on 2024-05-27, 15:27:

This? https://github.com/leecher1337/esfmbank (sources of both midi driver and a new bank/patch editor)

Thanks,
starting from your link I found this:
https://www.codingchords.com/junk/webmidi/esfm-web
This shows how the driver from your link sounds with ESFM emulator. Based on the result I do not think it's worth the effort to make a new plugin around this driver code currently. It seems some more work is still needed to reach the quality of ESS Windows drivers.

From my test listening compared to PCI ESS card, the midi driver behaves nicely when compiled as x86 usermode.
No guarantees for other archs!

>the quality of ESS Windows drivers.
Or lack of it in win2k+ drivers, during transition from C to C++ WDF. Borked tone portamento.

Coincidentally, I've also dipped my toes in subjects of "vee essss tee" and esfm midi thing(so I might be open to collab here, but still need to iron out the former).

Reply 1776 of 1866, by Roland User

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:30:

I love how 75% of the conversation here is between Falcosoft and Roland User 😀

I simply idealist and nostalgy about my hardware which I haved was be before , I want recive some pieces from Windows 9x ) I want recovery ESFM ESS1868 , Voyotra Super Sappi FM Synth , also Creative Wave Synth/WG MIDI and SeerSystems Reality ) but I not knowned where this can ask ) that why I asking people whitch do something similar )

And sometimes I have crazy idea do PC world bettter ) return to new PC all what be lost and be forgotten 😀

Reply 1777 of 1866, by BEEN_Nath_58

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:50:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:30:

I love how 75% of the conversation here is between Falcosoft and Roland User 😀

I do not 'love' this situation in all cases but I accept the fact that life is not a bed of roses 😀

Roland User wrote on 2024-05-27, 17:58:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2024-05-27, 08:30:

I love how 75% of the conversation here is between Falcosoft and Roland User 😀

I simply idealist and nostalgy about my hardware which I haved was be before , I want recive some pieces from Windows 9x ) I want recovery ESFM ESS1868 , Voyotra Super Sappi FM Synth , also Creative Wave Synth/WG MIDI and SeerSystems Reality ) but I not knowned where this can ask ) that why I asking people whitch do something similar )

And sometimes I have crazy idea do PC world bettter ) return to new PC all what be lost and be forgotten 😀

Right, two user cooperating and respecting each other's work and support is what all that was needed 😀

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 1778 of 1866, by dancing.sphinx

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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-26, 20:50:

Here is how ESFM sounds (ESS 1868) with the less buggy vxd driver on Win98 (contrary to buggy WDM drivers):
Re: Possible to use ES1887 'Midi for Internal ESFM Synthesis' for DOS Games?

Hi! Could you provide the exact midi file (or better - a full set for Doom, if exists) you have used in that particular recording? Thank you!

Reply 1779 of 1866, by Falcosoft

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dancing.sphinx wrote on 2024-05-27, 23:22:
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-05-26, 20:50:

Here is how ESFM sounds (ESS 1868) with the less buggy vxd driver on Win98 (contrary to buggy WDM drivers):
Re: Possible to use ES1887 'Midi for Internal ESFM Synthesis' for DOS Games?

Hi! Could you provide the exact midi file (or better - a full set for Doom, if exists) you have used in that particular recording? Thank you!

For this specific recording I used this mus rip:

Filename
D_E1M1.zip
File size
6.5 KiB
Downloads
17 downloads
File license
Public domain

The 'more original' versions of the tracks are available that pre-date the Midi to Mus conversion for the game engine:
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/135110- … rce-midi-files/

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