VOGONS


Reply 1320 of 1390, by penguin42

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hey there! Very cool software.

There's one thing I can't figure out ... When loading a .mid into the playlist, it will auto-load a .sf2 with the same name. But is there a way to override this, and assign any .sf2 to any midi in the playlist? I have some collections of classic video game music that use the same SF2 to playback, and it would be weird to have to make a copy of the SF2 for each one...

Reply 1321 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
penguin42 wrote on 2022-05-05, 09:04:

Hey there! Very cool software.

There's one thing I can't figure out ... When loading a .mid into the playlist, it will auto-load a .sf2 with the same name. But is there a way to override this, and assign any .sf2 to any midi in the playlist? I have some collections of classic video game music that use the same SF2 to playback, and it would be weird to have to make a copy of the SF2 for each one...

Hi,
Yes, you should collect the .mid files that use the same soundfont into a common folder and put the SF2 file with the name of 'Folder.SF2' into the same folder. If the mid+sf2 pairs use the 'more modern' approach and expect the SF2 to be loaded into Bank 0 (Creative's mid+sf2 demos always use Bank 1 and expect a hardware ROM or full GM/GS SF2 at Bank 0) then you can force this behavior by naming your folder SF2 to 'Folder_000.SF2'.
You can also modify the default bank loading strategy (Bank 0 or 1) at Device Settings dialog ->Bassmidi section->Real Time Loaded SF2 -> Default Bank.
BTW I think 'folder.sf2' is mentioned in Readme.html.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1323 of 1390, by nmonte

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hi, Zoltán! I'd like to request some sort of indication of what soundfont or VSTi is being currently used, it would prove useful f. e. while testing a bunch of soundfonts and switching between them with Ctrl+[0-9]. It may be a string on the LCD (or how do you call this screen?) or somewhere under the piano.
And of course thanks a ton for creating my favourite MIDI player!

Reply 1324 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
nmonte wrote on 2022-05-05, 21:07:

Hi, Zoltán! I'd like to request some sort of indication of what soundfont or VSTi is being currently used, it would prove useful f. e. while testing a bunch of soundfonts and switching between them with Ctrl+[0-9]. It may be a string on the LCD (or how do you call this screen?) or somewhere under the piano.
And of course thanks a ton for creating my favourite MIDI player!

Hi,
1. Unfortunately it's much more difficult than you think. Even If 'Use Bank LSB' is selected it's still possible that more than 1 soundfont is used at once (in case of missing presets). If 'Use Bank LSB' is not selected (default) it's almost guaranteed that more than 1 soundfont is used at once (either at different banks or at the same bank at different presets). So the full display would require a tree structure/graph. I do not want to do this. You can see what preset is actually used by a channel by looking at the 'Program' combo box. If a soundfont is selected into any of the currently available 10 slots and it's checked to be active you can suppose it is used 'somewhere' even if the currently played file actually does not use its presets (depending on sent bank select and program change messages).
So even defining 'what is being used' is not so simple as it seems.
2. If you open Main menu->Bass VST(i) Plugins you can see all VST(i) plugins that are being used.
Also the Visualization dialog (Channel & Spectrum) indicates indirectly what output engine the player currently uses (WinMM, Bassmidi, VSTi) . In case of WinMM there is no 'Format' and 'Samples' block. In case of Bassmidi you can see the the format and the amount of samples loaded. In case of VSTi you can see format and 'VSTi'.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1325 of 1390, by nmonte

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2022-05-05, 23:52:

Hi,
1. Unfortunately it's much more difficult than you think. Even If 'Use Bank LSB' is selected it's still possible that more than 1 soundfont is used at once (in case of missing presets). If 'Use Bank LSB' is not selected (default) it's almost guaranteed that more than 1 soundfont is used at once (either at different banks or at the same bank at different presets). So the full display would require a tree structure/graph. I do not want to do this. You can see what preset is actually used by a channel by looking at the 'Program' combo box. If a soundfont is selected into any of the currently available 10 slots and it's checked to be active you can suppose it is used 'somewhere' even if the currently played file actually does not use its presets (depending on sent bank select and program change messages).
So even defining 'what is being used' is not so simple as it seems.

So if I press CTRL+1, not necessarily ONLY the bank #1 will be used? Oh, I thought something was bugged, that I'm hearing the same instruments under different soundfont number sometimes. Sorry, still not quite grabbing this whole LSB/MSB thing. It's time for me to RTFM, i guess 😀

Reply 1326 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
nmonte wrote on 2022-05-06, 11:58:

So if I press CTRL+1, not necessarily ONLY the bank #1 will be used? Oh, I thought something was bugged, that I'm hearing the same instruments under different soundfont number sometimes. Sorry, still not quite grabbing this whole LSB/MSB thing. It's time for me to RTFM, i guess 😀

If you press press CTRL+1 then it's necessary that Bank 1 is used on all channels (depending on 'Use Bank LSB' is checked or not this can mean Bank LSB 1 or Bank MSB 1 respectively) . But what this means is dependent on the used soundfonts and their configuration. It's rather complex to calculate that the used Bank 1 belongs to what soundfont if some loaded soundfonts have missing presets etc.
Also actually it's not necessary to use the same Bank on all channels. You can use different Banks on any channels what further complicates to define and display 'what soundfont is used'. I dare to say that such thing has no meaning globally when multiple soundfonts are used. It has more meaning in the context of channels but actually it can only be defined exactly at preset/program level.
I have already written about the possible complexities of soundfont stacking here:
Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi
Some relevant quotes:

It seems soundfont management logic + different midi systems is not an easy subject and implementing the 'Use Bank LSB' option h […]
Show full quote

It seems soundfont management logic + different midi systems is not an easy subject and implementing the 'Use Bank LSB' option have not made it easier.
...
Usually simple playback with only a default soundfont (placed at bank 0) is not a problem.
By default bassmidi similarly to most GS devices and SB hardware simply does not use/ignores the Bank LSB value. And if it meets a Bank MSB + program combination that does not exist it uses its Capital Tone Fallback (CTF) mechanism and simply use the given instrument at Program + Bank 0.
(If you want to see the result of CTF and so want to see the used program +bank combination instead of the real bank values the file sends, you can enable ‘Main menu -> Intruments -> Use Patch Info for Capital Tone Fallback’ in Midiplayer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrKfDTjvKDs)
...
But let’s see how soundfont management works in Midiplayer (up to 4.7). It works the exact same way as SB series soundfont manager (sfman32). Let me repeat it: Bank LSB does not play. Bank is equivalent to Bank MSB value. (according to this in Midiplayer up to 4.7 and in Midiplayer 4.8 if ‘Use bank LSB’ is not selected Ctrl + x always sets Bank MSB value never bank LSB.)
Bank 0 is supposed to be the main GM compatible bank, and other additional soundfonts to be the variations. In case of SB hardware it was never meant to place full GM/GS implementations on different banks. It is possible, but later banks overwrite overlapping presets. An example:

1. You load a default full GS soundfont at bank 0. Therefore at bank 0 program 127 you have the Gun Shot instrument, and at Bank 1 program 127 you have the Machine Gun instrument.
2. If you load another full GM/GS soundfont at Bank 1 you will have the 1st soundfont’s macine Gun instrument at Bank 0 program 127, but at Bank 1 program 127 you will have the 2nd soundfont’s Gun Shot instrument. 1st soundfont’s Machine Gun has been overwritten. Notice: bank number behaves as an offset. The 2nd soundfont’s bank 0 will be available at bank 1, bank 1 at bank 2 and so on.

To overcome this preset overlapping problem I have added the ‘Use Bank LSB’ option to MidiPlayer 4.8. If it is selected Ctrl + x always sets the Bank LSB value. This method is unique and is not available in any hardware soundfont implementation. Instead of imitating the SB hardware’s soundfont management this method is more similar to later GS implementation’s Map changing method (SC-8820/8850). Each additional full GM/GS soundfont can be considered as a complete GS map (like SC-55, SC-88 Maps in SC-8820).
And these maps can be selected by Bank LSB. And this way the variation banks in each Soundfonts can be selected by Bank MSB since they do not overlap each other.
But there was a little problem with Bassmidi’s default CTF behavior that required some workarounds. Namely by default Bassmidi always falls back to Bank MSB/LSB 0 if it does not find an exact match at the given Bank LSB + Bank MSB + Program combination. Thus it leaves the Domain of the selected Map/Soundfont by Bank LSB. This behavior is not good when you want to test a soundfont and the midi file tries to use a bank MSB + Program combination that does not exist in the soundfont selected by the Bank LSB value. So if such a situation occurs MidiPlayer resets the Bank MSB value to 0 and thus falls back to the Capital Tone Bank of the selected soundfont. So in case of ‘Use Bank LSB’ this effect result in a different program name and bank MSB value display than in 'Bank MSB mode' in case of non-existent Bank MSB + program combinations.

I hope this makes it more clear but Midi itself, different Midi systems and soundfont management are not easy subjects. And you have to gather much information from different places to get a clear picture.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1328 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Just for fun: 32 channel KIKAN.MID from KONAMI MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT played with WinMM Multiport VSTi (2 instances of SC-VA in SC-88Pro mode).
Notice: It's a 4 channel ogg file so it should be played at least on a 4/5.1 speaker setup. Channels 1-16 are assigned to front speakers and channels 17-32 to rear speakers.
https://falcosoft.hu/kikan_4ch.ogg

Original Midi file:

Filename
KIKAN.zip
File size
56.28 KiB
Downloads
23 downloads
File license
Public domain

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1330 of 1390, by nmonte

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2022-05-09, 08:58:
Just for fun: 32 channel KIKAN.MID from KONAMI MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT played with WinMM Multiport VSTi (2 instances of SC-VA in SC- […]
Show full quote

Just for fun: 32 channel KIKAN.MID from KONAMI MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT played with WinMM Multiport VSTi (2 instances of SC-VA in SC-88Pro mode).
Notice: It's a 4 channel ogg file so it should be played at least on a 4/5.1 speaker setup. Channels 1-16 are assigned to front speakers and channels 17-32 to rear speakers.
https://falcosoft.hu/kikan_4ch.ogg

Original Midi file:
KIKAN.zip

Holy Mary mother of Gawd!
It sounds so glorious!

Reply 1331 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Kahenraz wrote on 2022-05-09, 11:56:

That's interesting. I suppose you could use this for surround sound General MIDI?

Yes, sort of 😀

nmonte wrote on 2022-05-09, 12:24:

Holy Mary mother of Gawd!
It sounds so glorious!

Yeah, If you align front/rear balance properly it can sound quite 'theatrical'.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1332 of 1390, by RetroGamer4Ever

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Many people don't know it, but surround sound, multi-channel MP3s are a thing, even though they aren't used. At least two of the MP3 patents, which expired in 2015, are for multi-channel use, but I don't think they were ever implemented in any products. Multi-channel MIDI recordings would probably be quite interesting to listen to on vehicle audio systems, which typically sport enough speakers to give the experience of spatial breadth and high-impact audio.

Reply 1333 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hi,
FSMP 6.1 has been finally released. The zip packages also include the latest versions of Munt VSTi, OPL3 GM VSTi and the new WinMM MultiPort VSTi. The 6.1 test version is no longer available.
https://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer
for more details about new features and changes read this post:
Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1334 of 1390, by appiah4

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Falcosoft wrote on 2022-05-16, 19:00:
Hi, FSMP 6.1 has been finally released. The zip packages also include the latest versions of Munt VSTi, OPL3 GM VSTi and the new […]
Show full quote

Hi,
FSMP 6.1 has been finally released. The zip packages also include the latest versions of Munt VSTi, OPL3 GM VSTi and the new WinMM MultiPort VSTi. The 6.1 test version is no longer available.
https://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer
for more details about new features and changes read this post:
Re: Falcosoft Soundfont Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi

Thanks a lot for continuing development on this, so much appreciated.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 1335 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
appiah4 wrote on 2022-05-18, 14:55:

Thanks a lot for continuing development on this, so much appreciated.

You're welcome!

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1336 of 1390, by realnc

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Thank you for the update! I just updated to 6.1 on Linux (running it in Wine.) Works just as well as the previous versions. I wanted to try out the included SimpleGain VST, but I get an error dialog saying I can't load 32-bit VSTs. So it seems the 64-bit download ships with a 32-bit VST.

Edit: Apparently none of the bundled VSTs can be loaded 😜 Munt and OPL VSTs give the same error.

Reply 1337 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
realnc wrote on 2022-05-19, 16:38:

Thank you for the update! I just updated to 6.1 on Linux (running it in Wine.) Works just as well as the previous versions. I wanted to try out the included SimpleGain VST, but I get an error dialog saying I can't load 32-bit VSTs. So it seems the 64-bit download ships with a 32-bit VST.

Edit: Apparently none of the bundled VSTs can be loaded 😜 Munt and OPL VSTs give the same error.

Thanks,
The 64-bit zip package really contained the 32-bit version of SimplegainVST. I have corrected this so please re-download it. But the other VSTi plugins are the right ones. I had no problem using them on 64-bit Linux Mint:

Screenshot at 2022-05-19 19-39-13.png
Filename
Screenshot at 2022-05-19 19-39-13.png
File size
455.11 KiB
Views
172 views
File license
Public domain

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic

Reply 1338 of 1390, by realnc

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Falcosoft wrote on 2022-05-19, 17:47:

Thanks,
The 64-bit zip package really contained the 32-bit version of SimplegainVST. I have corrected this so please re-download it.

Yes, it loads fine now. Thank you.

But the other VSTi plugins are the right ones.

I was trying to load them using the effects VST loader, just to test if they load. The error message confused me since it mentions 32-bit vs 64-bit 😜

Btw, does SimpleGain use a soft limiter, or does it clip the samples?

Reply 1339 of 1390, by Falcosoft

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Btw, does SimpleGain use a soft limiter, or does it clip the samples?

Since in VST world everything is floating point it cannot 'clip' in the strict sense. Although normalized floating point samples are in -1 to +1 range values outside of this range are also valid and no information is lost.
In such cases most audio engine can limit/compress the output according to the highest peaks. But back to the point SimpleGain (as its name suggest) does not do -1 to +1 normalization.

Other:
I have noticed that on my screenshot the song title is missing.
Apparently it's not a screenshot glitch but my Wine version cannot handle properly GetCharacterPlacement/GetTextExtentPoint32 Win32 functions that the new version is using.
So I have disabled using these function if Wine is detected. Haven't you noticed this problem with your Wine version?
BTW, I have uploaded the fixed packages with these last minute changes. The fixed version of Midiplayer.exe is 6.1.0.8.

Last edited by Falcosoft on 2022-05-19, 18:55. Edited 1 time in total.

Website, Facebook, Youtube
Falcosoft Midi Player + Munt VSTi + BassMidi VSTi topic