Just had to read what is meant by "skeuomorphic design"...and yes it is some kind of disturbing, also can remember programs from the nineties for Windows.

But iOS7 is not just leaving this "skeuomorphic design", it is much more usable and user friendly in contrast to iOS6 and prior. I still own an iPhone4 with iOS 7.1.2, set it back to iOS6 with a tool some years ago and was shocked how unusable iOS6 was, it was kind of stale while iOS7 still looks relatively fresh.

kind regards
soggi

65C02 wrote on 2021-10-13, 07:15:

For those of you who've already promised family, friends, coworkers, etc that you'd install it on their unsupported PCs, check this out:
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rufus-creat … ows-11-installs

If it works as advertised, this will be a real time saver.

Great news, what remains to be seen is the implications of windows installed on such unsupported systems. If anything breaks in windows, becomes disabled, stuff like that.

The biggest problem will be the Windows Updates on unsupported systems.

Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-13, 06:15:

Skeuomorphism wasn't a new thing, it actually existed in 1990's PC software for Windows, I remember one note book app that used something similar to a binder (we say "Fichário" in brazilian portuguese) but I can't recall the name.

Lotus Organizer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Lotus_Organizer

Dominus wrote on 2021-10-13, 12:47:

Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-13, 06:15:

Skeuomorphism wasn't a new thing, it actually existed in 1990's PC software for Windows, I remember one note book app that used something similar to a binder (we say "Fichário" in brazilian portuguese) but I can't recall the name.

Lotus Organizer? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Lotus_Organizer

Yes!! Thank you, it was driving me crazy, that I couldn’t remember it

I loved that one 😉
My mother was big into a real world filofax and a virtual one was great to have 😉

Dominus wrote on 2021-10-13, 14:42:

I loved that one 😉
My mother was big into a real world filofax and a virtual one was great to have 😉

Digita Organiser also comes to mind.
(looks pretty much the same as the lotus one)

The biggest problem will be the Windows Updates on unsupported systems.

Wait for major update => Reinstall OS with integrated update. Eat, sleep, rave, repeat. Already tried and tested with Windows 10 Ameliorated, which just straight out axed Windows Update due to privacy concerns.

My father has a copy of Lotus Organizer, too! ^^

While it looked childishly to my younger self at the time (“computer programs must not look like lame real world stuff!"),
it looked really nice and unique in some ways.

Anyway, the idea/concept wasn't so wrong I think now.
Our brains are wired to recognize physical objects.
That minimalistic design with basic shapes that iOS 7+ and Win 8+ use, doesn't trigger our neurons in the same way.

Rather, these designs must actively be interpreted by the our minds.
Without concentration, they look no different than modern art.

Which in turn brings the whole concept of minimalistic icons like pictograms (exit sign etc) ad absurdum.

Because, it requires the ability of abstraction.
Which, say, in a panic situation is hard to maintain.
Now add some problems with eye sight (near sight, teary eyes) into the mix, and these pictograms turn into a blurry, bi-colored mess. 😔

Edit : Picture added.

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-13, 15:51:

Anyway, the idea/concept wasn't so wrong I think now.
Our brains are wired to recognize physical objects.
That minimalistic design with basic shapes that iOS 7+ and Win 8+ use, doesn't trigger our neurons in the same way.

This is because like I said before, it served its own purpose for the first 4, 5 years since it's inception for iOS (2007). It teached people how to use the operating system. By 2012, everyone was used to it, understood the system and its apps, how to use the touch screen, gestures, pinch and zoom... so no point in keeping it. Even new users coming from other operating systems understood it after its removal; mobile devices were already popular and I think they are still more popular than PCs.

Microsoft gave another attempt at a mobile Windows OS for their Surface Duo, labelling it Windows 10X, but it was a flop (as I expected). Some experts believe that they recycled some concepts and baked them into Windows 11, like the new taskbar that is under fire and critics for the missing customization options such as moving it to another screen corner and resizing it (small, medium, big). I don't want to use pinned apps or recommended stuff, I find myself always clicking on "All Apps" to find the one I want. Therefore I am missing an option not to show them and go straight to the all apps list. Man, I miss the old start menu groups. Alphabetical order is a $#*%$*%$( to deal with. Why? iOS and macOS still have groups for apps, pretty much like it was since I started on Windows 3.x.

^I agree, thank you for the explanation. ^^
Also, I wasn't thinking of you when I complained about UX/UI designers.
I merely meant those many others that follow the current fad, without question it.

Speaking of iOS and mobile devices, I'm currently a bit stranded with them here, also..
For the last years, I'm using a Raspberry Pi 4 (formerly Pi 3) here, because I couldn't find a new digital "home" after Win 7 went EOL.
Windows 8.0 was the last PC OS that I dared to use (on my sister's old notebook).

That's why I often can't write answers on Vogons (and other forums) the way I want to.
It's really cumbersome to do that on an on-screen keyboard with a tiny view-port.
(Maybe I should rather use a big Android tablet with a keyboard instead. Hm. I'll think about it.)

And on top of that, the auto correction often replaces words which I write, as well.
Last time, it replaced "modulator" by emulator and I didn't notice. *sigh*
Anyway, that's another story. 😅

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:57:

Speaking of iOS and mobile devices, I'm currently a bit stranded with them here, also..
For the last years, I'm using a Raspberry Pi 4 (formerly Pi 3) here, because I couldn't find a new digital "home" after Win 7 went EOL.
Windows 8.0 was the last PC OS that I dared to use (on my sister's old notebook).

I also think about buying a Raspberry Pi 400 for doing all the web stuff...

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:57:

That's why I often can't write answers on Vogons (and other forums) the way I want to.
It's really cumbersome to do that on an on-screen keyboard with a tiny view-port.
(Maybe I should rather use a big Android tablet with a keyboard instead. Hm. I'll think about it.)

A BT keyboard should do the task!?

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:57:

And on top of that, the auto correction often replaces words which I write, as well.
Last time, it replaced "modulator" by emulator and I didn't notice. *sigh*
Anyway, that's another story. 😅

Oh yes...also have to take care that the auto correction doesn't throw in some German words nonsensing the context...annoying!

kind regards
soggi

soggi wrote on 2021-10-15, 08:52:

I also think about buying a Raspberry Pi 400 for doing all the web stuff... […]
Show full quote

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:57:

Speaking of iOS and mobile devices, I'm currently a bit stranded with them here, also..
For the last years, I'm using a Raspberry Pi 4 (formerly Pi 3) here, because I couldn't find a new digital "home" after Win 7 went EOL.
Windows 8.0 was the last PC OS that I dared to use (on my sister's old notebook).

I also think about buying a Raspberry Pi 400 for doing all the web stuff...

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:57:

That's why I often can't write answers on Vogons (and other forums) the way I want to.
It's really cumbersome to do that on an on-screen keyboard with a tiny view-port.
(Maybe I should rather use a big Android tablet with a keyboard instead. Hm. I'll think about it.)

A BT keyboard should do the task!?

Jo22 wrote on 2021-10-14, 07:57:

And on top of that, the auto correction often replaces words which I write, as well.
Last time, it replaced "modulator" by emulator and I didn't notice. *sigh*
Anyway, that's another story. :sweatdrop:

Oh yes...also have to take care that the auto correction doesn't throw in some German words nonsensing the context...annoying!

kind regards
soggi

Hi Soggi! You read my mind - this is one of my worst fears too! 😂 (😰)
While Vogons is a really friendly and forgiving place, other forums might be not so.
I always fear that using my native language could be misinterpreted as arrogant or looking down or something like that, which isn't the case (love that Englisch language).
In reality, in most cases me or auto-correction just typed such wrong words by accident. 😅
The exception to this are a few special words that haven't really well translated to English yet.
Say, Zeitgeist, Gedankenexperiment, Kaput(t) or Murks.
In reverse, there are English words that haven't been translated appropriately the other way round.
Like "sophisticated". There are words that describe it, but are less, um, powerful.

Raspberry Pi 4.. I'm on the Pi platform for at least 4-5 years now.
What I can tell you so far from my experience:

- The older Pi 3 has hardware decoding for classic video formats still. MPEG 1 to 4, I think.
It has the old GPU that VLC and early Pi ports like emulators are compatible with (like that C64 emu).
On Pi 4, Kaffeine can be used to play back all sorts of videos.

- The Pi 3B (3B+) is well supported by many self-booting projects and older Raspbian releases.
But these already in the process of getting updated for Pi 4.

- The "explorer" of Raspbian/Raspberry Pi OS is not fullly mature yet. It will crash occasionally. Or won't show newly created files and folders sometimes. A reboot fixes that.
Connecting smartphones can be a bit cumbersome, too.
The OS has issues with the mounting points.
A workaround is unmount the smartphone, re-mount it and press F5 (refresh).
Or reboot the whole thing with the smartphone connected and its USB configured for generic file access.

- The Pi 3 seems to have a slightly "better" CPU core, but the Pi 4 runs a higher clock rate.

- Performance wise, the Pi 4 is now close to a real PC.
Browsing the web is not worse than from using a retro PC, say a Pentium III or IV.

- The Pi 4 can boot from USB 3.0. I have an old SSD with an USB 3 converter hooked up to it.

- The more memory, the better. Get the 8GB version. :)
- Make sure the power supply has some reserves (several amps). Also because of USB 3 and its peripherals.

Best wishes,
Jo22

Edit: Small edit.
Edit: I'm sorry. I guess I was too chatty again, I'm afraid. 😅

Meanwhile Windows 11 is off to a good start... just like Windows Vista or Windows 8.

With micro controllers like the pie I'd do a server client setup with the server having the hardware running things in vms casted to the clients, the clients only needing to be strong & quick enough to handle video streamed from the server and sending input quick enough to keep lag down, thus skipping trying to make a microcontroller fast enough to do beafy things itself. You can keep the server with that pricy hardware and invaluable data safely tucked away with just cheap microcontroller stuff laying about.

Can someone please tell me what exciting new innovative features Windows 11 will provide?

Other than a new start up tune, rounded window boarders and a launcher/menu thingy at the bottom of the screen of course.

Working our way back to 98 again 🤣

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-10-19, 19:51:

Can someone please tell me what exciting new innovative features Windows 11 will provide?

Other than a new start up tune, rounded window boarders and a launcher/menu thingy at the bottom of the screen of course.

The in-place upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 is even smoother than 7/8/8.1 to 10 is.

The right-click menu is better once you get used to common functions being icons at the top instead of having to mouse down through the list.

Control Panel may be a bit better once you get used to it... a whole bunch of the admin tools have been moved to a different area. Makes sense but the first few times it is annoying to remember/find where they put them.

It seems quicker than Windows 10 on officially supported hardware. Not sure about not officially supported hardware. Haven't tested gaming out on my main system as I still have Windows 10 on that one because it isn't officially supported, but it works just fine on my kids' system.

Hyper-V is still super sucky... for running older OSes like XP. Also Hyper-V slows down the whole system even when not running a VM.

What new innovative features do you want/need?

It will never be that good 🤣

I tried to install Windows 11 on my Rasberry pi (i7, RAM 8GB), and it works well when there is no heavy tasks.
But so slow even when I am going to use Chrome 😀