badmojo wrote on 2024-03-25, 05:21:

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-14, 21:31:

...but the only game I couldn’t make playable was Ultima VII: The Black Gate.

Might help? Ultima VII Frame Limiter Patch

Thanks, I'll take a look at that. I was hoping to see if Ultima VII could be made to work solely with h/w throttling, but that was probably too ambitious. 😅

Couple small updates.

First is related to the RAM slots. I was occasionally having issues where the system would beep as though it was missing RAM. It typically would do this from a cold boot even without any hardware changes. Removing and re-seating the RAM would fix the issue.

I decided to give the RAM slots a cleaning with some Deoxit in case there was some corrosion. In wiping out the slots there was some dark residue, so I'm assuming they were probably a bit dirty.

Hopefully this issue doesn't reoccur.

Also installed the Orpheus II drivers in the Windows 98 installs and Windows Me.

Ran into a weird issue with Windows Me where it wouldn't allow me to change the MIDI device to the external wavetable (MPU-401 Out). Or rather, I could pick a different MIDI device, but it would always revert back to the default option.

I opted to disable the various MIDI devices leaving only the MPU-401 Out option. Playback works fine. I have no idea why this occurred.

Testing thermals in this system, it seems to stay relatively cool. Here's the BIOS temperature monitoring after doing some benchmarking with 3DMark01 and 03:

I've been impressed with how well this system seems to handle temperatures. That Cedar Mill processor barely breaks a sweat.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-26, 23:37:

Testing thermals in this system, it seems to stay relatively cool. Here's the BIOS temperature monitoring after doing some benchmarking with 3DMark01 and 03:

BIOS Temperature Monitoring after 3DMark.jpg

I've been impressed with how well this system seems to handle temperatures. That Cedar Mill processor barely breaks a sweat.

Unless you just press reset button after finishing benchmark and going directly into BIOS afterwards, I wouldn't consider those readings being anywhere close to representative. With proper heatsink and fan it takes few seconds before the temperature has dropped several degrees ..

Yeah, while power saving got much better and aggressive on later CPU's that Cedar Mill 651 still drops from 3.4GHz to around 2GHz almost immediately when idle if I recall correctly, it really doesn't take long to drop to idle temps too.

I think my 651 peaked somewhere around 50-60°C CPU fan set to slowest/quietest mode BIOS allowed.

I've nothing to add, other than I've really been enjoying seeing these updates come through. Keep up the good work Shponglefan!

H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-03-27, 05:03:

Unless you just press reset button after finishing benchmark and going directly into BIOS afterwards, I wouldn't consider those readings being anywhere close to representative. With proper heatsink and fan it takes few seconds before the temperature has dropped several degrees ..

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-27, 05:47:

Yeah, while power saving got much better and aggressive on later CPU's that Cedar Mill 651 still drops from 3.4GHz to around 2GHz almost immediately when idle if I recall correctly, it really doesn't take long to drop to idle temps too.

I think my 651 peaked somewhere around 50-60°C CPU fan set to slowest/quietest mode BIOS allowed.

Yes, I recognize that taking a reading in the BIOS isn't going to be quite accurate when it comes to peak temps. I did immediately reset the system, so the BIOS temps are within 10 seconds of 3DMark finishing.

I installed and ran Speedfan when doing another benchmark. I ran 3DMark03 a couple times to warm up the system followed by just the two CPU tests. Per the chart, it looks like CPU temps peaked at 37-38 degrees C.

I still need to test this system after an extended gaming session or stress testing, so I'm sure the temps may get even higher.

Martli wrote on 2024-03-27, 05:54:

I've nothing to add, other than I've really been enjoying seeing these updates come through. Keep up the good work Shponglefan!

Thank you! It's be a fun system to work on, so I'm glad you're enjoying the ongoing build! 😀

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-27, 14:30:

I installed and ran Speedfan when doing another benchmark. I ran 3DMark03 a couple times to warm up the system followed by just the two CPU tests. Per the chart, it looks like CPU temps peaked at 37-38 degrees C.

I still need to test this system after an extended gaming session or stress testing, so I'm sure the temps may get even higher.

I'm not familiar with Speedfan as a temperature sensor, it's possible it's reading some not-so-accurate diode on the motherboard instead of the one inside the CPU. Also 3DMark barely touches CPU, so it's not great determining max temps even though it might not be that far off from actual temps when playing games.

I personally like to use HWiNFO for reading temps and Prime95 for stress testing CPU and getting a good idea of actual max temps no game will probably ever reach.

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-27, 16:48:

I personally like to use HWiNFO for reading temps and Prime95 for stress testing CPU and getting a good idea of actual max temps no game will probably ever reach.

I just ran a test with Prime95 and used HWinfo to monitor temps.

I ran it for about 30 minutes and it reached a peak of 45C during that time. It mostly hovered around 43-44 degrees C.

Re-ran the CPU benchmarks from 3DMark03 and monitored with both HWinfo and Speedfan.

Speedfan reported a peak of 36.5C versus HWinfo at 37C.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-27, 18:31:

I just ran a test with Prime95 and used HWinfo to monitor temps.

I ran it for about 30 minutes and it reached a peak of 45C during that time. It mostly hovered around 43-44 degrees C.

Pretty sure that's the motherboard CPU socket diode, it doesn't show the values for the Pentium 4 like CPU Package? If not the motherboard doesn't have the doohickey that makes it possible to read the diode inside the CPU.

So you should add around 10°C or so to that value to get more or less the real temperature. Still perfectly fine at 55°C for a Pentium 4 using Prime95, games don't punish the CPU as hard.

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-27, 18:41:

Pretty sure that's the motherboard CPU socket diode, it doesn't show the values for the Pentium 4 like CPU Package? If not the motherboard doesn't have the doohickey that makes it possible to read the diode inside the CPU.

So you should add around 10°C or so to that value to get more or less the real temperature. Still perfectly fine at 55°C for a Pentium 4 using Prime95, games don't punish the CPU as hard.

It doesn't show package vs core temps or anything like that. Just basic CPU temp. This motherboard does lack some features found in consumer motherboards like fan control, etc., so I'm not surprised it may not have whatever is needed to monitor core CPU temps directly.

Since it does lack fan speed controls, I've manually throttled all the fans using Noctua low-noise adapters. I'm hoping I can get enough airflow to keep temps reasonable while at the same time keeping noise to a minimum.

Sounds like I shouldn't have anything to worry about so far. 😀

Wonder if openhardwaremonitor would run on a P4 class system ....

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-27, 18:57:

It doesn't show package vs core temps or anything like that. Just basic CPU temp. This motherboard does lack some features found in consumer motherboards like fan control, etc., so I'm not surprised it may not have whatever is needed to monitor core CPU temps directly.

I just sanity checked my P35 / E8600 system and it doesn't show CPU Package either, I thought it had that value but evidently not! Probably was a later thing than I realized. Maybe I had it on my previous P45 board? Who knows.

According to Intel datasheet the temperature limit for P4 651 with D0 stepping is 64.1°C, going over makes it throttle. So if the software monitors are reporting the socket diode temp I think as long the reported temperature stays under ~50°C while playing games and other shenanigans it's all good.

Here's an update on current build progress.

I've installed all of the intended operating systems and have moved the system to my main retro setup with proper CRT and sound setup. DOS, both Windows 98 SE installs, Windows Me, 2000, and XP are all installed and configured for general usage.

I still need to install drivers and/or configure things for a few more of the operating systems:

Windows 3.11

I installed the modified SVGA driver from the Vogons driver library. While it works, the refresh rate is locked at 60 Hz. I'll need to investigate options to try to boost the refresh rate.

Windows 95 & NT 4.0

While these OS are installed, I haven't done any driver installations yet.

For NT 4.0, I'm hoping to just get basic video and sound support via the Orpheus II. While there is no official Orpheus II driver for NT, I'm hoping to use a generic Crystal audio driver.

For 95, I'm planning to set it up with a focus on Voodoo 2 and A3D support. I just need to work out all the driver versions and installation steps to make sure everything installs properly.

I've been trying out some games under Windows 98 and ran into an annoying issue with the Pioneer DVD drive. It tends to spin up to maximum speed even for things like CD audio. Naturally this produces a lot of noise. It also turns out it can't be throttled with Nero DriveSpeed.

After testing a few different drives, I switched to a 48x Lite-On CD-ROM drive.

It can be throttled down to 8x which makes it much quieter for use with games. Unfortunately, Nero DriveSpeed can't seem to save these settings as default. But it still works by manually setting it to 8x. At least this way I can throttle it for any troublesome games.

I still need to test it under DOS and see if it can be throttled there as well.

This does mean I lose DVD-ROM support on this system, although I don't think that should affect too many games as most of the games I want to play are on CD-ROM anyway.

I'm going to continue to test different DVD drives and see if I can find one that can be throttled to something approximating an 8x CD-ROM.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-03-29, 15:43:

I've been trying out some games under Windows 98 and ran into an annoying issue with the Pioneer DVD drive. It tends to spin up to maximum speed even for things like CD audio. Naturally this produces a lot of noise. It also turns out it can't be throttled with Nero DriveSpeed.

After testing a few different drives, I switched to a 48x Lite-On CD-ROM drive.

If it helps, I have a couple of Lite-On DVD drives, and they work fine with Nero DriveSpeed.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-29, 15:52:

If it helps, I have a couple of Lite-On DVD drives, and they work fine with Nero DriveSpeed.

That's good to know.

I was digging through my collection and discovered I do have a Lite-On DVD drive. It does have a white faceplate, so won't match the case. But I'll test it to see if it will work.

Did some more testing with Windows 3.11.

I was able to boost the refresh rate by using VBEHZ (from here https://www.uwe-sieber.de/util.html ).

Didn't even need to configure anything; just added it to my AUTOEXEC.BAT before launching Windows 3.11 and it just works. I'm not sure exactly what refresh rate it's running at, but it has to be at least 85 Hz if not higher judging from the complete lack of flicker.

On the downside, I ran into audio problems. I'd installed and tested some more games including SimAnt and Microsoft Arcade. Unfortunately audio playback in games causes the system to lag. It seems like every time a sound sample plays, the game pauses momentarily.

The especially noticeable in the MS Arcade with games like Battlezone or Asteroids; games become laggy and unplayable. The only game this doesn't seem noticeable in is Civilization 2.

I'm currently using the Orpheus Windows 3.11 drivers, which are modified Crystal drivers. If I can't figure things out with these drivers, I might try the GUS PnP Windows 3.1 drivers instead.