"Outrigger" OR840 build

Showcase your Retro PC / Build logs.

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby slivercr » 2017-10-18 @ 19:34

Adrian_ wrote:Thanks a lot, I'll see what I can work out with the shipping. (I'm in Europe but the shipping still costs 50% more then the items).

I'm thinking maybe at purchasing 4 of these since I actually have a second AP550 mobo at home (but sadly lacking the VRM for the second CPU, which means more $ particularly for shipping).

I have already modded one Tualatin for an Asus cubx (did the mod on the CPU) viewtopic.php?f=46&t=56151 so working on the slotkeys should be much easier.


Btw, did you tried Win7 and 2Gb RDRAM on your machine?

Well, it should still be around €20 for 2 new in box MSI slotkets. Not a bad deal, in my book.

I have not tried W7 on this machine, I am quite happy with a Win 2000 and Win ME dual-boot at the time. I think the machine is perfect for a Win 2000 or Win XP rig.

About your mod: Vtt_PWRGD should not be connected to PWRGOOD. I know its all over the internet and it "works", but according to the datasheet;
"The PWRGOOD signal input is a 1.8 V signal level and must be pulled up to VCC_CMOS1.8 . The VTT_PWRGD is not 1.8 V tolerant and must be connected to VTT ( 1.25 V) . Other CMOS inputs (A20M#, IGNNE#, INIT#, LINT0/INTR, LINT1/NMI, PREQ#, SMI, SLP#, and STPCLK#) are only 1.5 V tolerant and must be pulled up to VCC_CMOS1.5 . The CMOS, APIC, and TAP outputs are open drain and must be pulled to the appropriate level to meet the input specifications of the interfacing device."

pag 22; Intel ® Pentium ® III Processor Based on 0.13 Micron Process Up to 1.33 GHz Datasheet, Document Number: 249765-002

Unless you modify the supply going into the CPUs, your VTT will already be above spec at 1.5 V, there's no need to stress the CPU even further.
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / Radeon 8500 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win98SE - WinXPPro
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby Adrian_ » 2017-10-18 @ 20:53

Yes, I know what you mean, but I never read any report of a Tualatin being killed/damaged by this mod. Pretty much the same thing like all those nVidia AGP cards running for years in overclocked Bx boards without a glitch.

I suppose I could move the wire to the correct pin but honestly there's a very good soldering done there (wire twisted all te way around the pin then soldered) so I'm a bit lazy about re-doing it.
Adrian_
Newbie
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 2017-9-25 @ 15:30

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby slivercr » 2017-10-20 @ 10:00

A recap after all…

I recently started a new project and one of the first things to do was recap the whole motherboard. Since I needed to add some extra dollars to the order to get free shipping from mouser (recommended, btw, super-fast shipping and delivery), I figured I'd order new caps for this board. Behold,
The old Sanyo OS-CON caps. They were still in good shape so I'll save them.
oldOSCONs.JPG

The OR840, mid-surgery.
readyForSurgery.JPG

The new bling: Nichicon organic polymer capacitors with even LOWER ESR than the OS-CONs
aftermath.JPG


I'll test it out and report back.

(EDIT: this was my 100th post! A big thanks to the community for the support and ideas while building/modding this system.)
Last edited by slivercr on 2017-10-20 @ 22:07, edited 2 times in total.
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / Radeon 8500 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win98SE - WinXPPro
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby luckybob » 2017-10-20 @ 18:01

wow, not many caps...
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
User avatar
luckybob
l33t
 
Posts: 2932
Joined: 2009-4-30 @ 04:43

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby slivercr » 2017-10-20 @ 18:09

luckybob wrote:wow, not many caps...


Thankfully, makes for easy maintenance (the board of my other project has 54 capacitors to exchange… it made up for this one).

The system boots up properly, btw. Since I am currently recapping another board I haven't had time to test more than that, but at least I didn't outright fry it ;)
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / Radeon 8500 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win98SE - WinXPPro
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby slivercr » 2017-12-06 @ 17:22

ACPI Woes

In a previous post I had mentioned some trouble when trying to install the ACPI HAL under Windows XP: a normal installation would recognize the computer as an MPS Multiprocessor PC, and trying to force the ACPI HAL during installation by pressing F5 before the F6 extra drivers prompt at the beginning would result in an unbootable system. This frustrated me so I installed Windows 2000 Pro and have been happily running it for quite a while now, but the other day I got curious as to why Windows 2000, Linux, and Windows 98/ME recognize the machine as ACPI capable, but Windows XP refuses to do so.

With Windows XP Microsoft put its foot down and decided that only ACPI 2.0 capable machines would be allowed to run the ACPI HAL, as a way to pressure board makers into the new standard. The way Windows XP decides what constitutes an "ACPI 2.0 capable machine" is not straightforward at all, though. Basically, if the BIOS in question is dated 1999-01-01 or later and it is not in the [NWACL] list in the i386/txtsetup.sif file—the "bad BIOS list" for short—then it gets to use the ACPI HAL. If the machine's BIOS is dated before 1999-01-01 but is on the [GoodACPIBios] list in the aforementioned file, it gets to use the ACPI HAL. And finally, if the BIOS came later than 1999-01-01 but is on the "bad BIOS list" it gets no ACPI… Guess in which list is the OR840?

Yup, bad BIOS list, along with other pretty nice boards like ABIT's BP6 and ASUS' P2B-D. Here's the full "bad BIOS list" from the official XP Pro SP3 CD downloaded from Microsoft's site;

Code: Select all
[NWACL]
ABitBP6=ABitBP6
AMIINT01/18/00=AMIINT01/18/00
ASUSP2B-D=ASUSP2B-D
ASUSP2B-F=ASUSP2B-F
ASUSP2B-DS02/03/99=ASUSP2B-DS02/03/99
ASUSP2B-DS10/21/99=ASUSP2B-DS10/21/99
ASUSP2L97-DS02/02/99=ASUSP2L97-DS02/02/99
ASUSP5A-B=ASUSP5A-B
ASUSP5A03/12/99=ASUSP5A03/12/99
CompaqArmada3500=CompaqArmada3500
CompaqArmada6500=CompaqArmada6500
CompaqM500=CompaqM500
CompaqPanther=CompaqPanther
CompaqPresario1692=CompaqPresario1692
CompaqPresario1925=CompaqPresario1925
COMPAQTHUNDER05/18/99=COMPAQTHUNDER05/18/99
COMPAQRACEBAIT12/06/99=COMPAQRACEBAIT12/06/99
DellCP???01/27/99=DellCP???01/27/99
DELLCPt=DELLCPt
DellCPtA02=DellCPtA02
DellLatitudeLT=DellLatitudeLT
DellInspiron3500=DellInspiron3500
DellPE1300=DellPE1300
DellPersonalWorkation1300=DellPersonalWorkation1300
FICPA2013=FICPA2013
FICVB601=FICVB601
FujitsuCAPRICOR=FujitsuCAPRICOR
FujitsuM63E=FujitsuM63E
FujitsuM65=FujitsuM65
FujitsuSPRINT=FujitsuSPRINT
FujitsuTANDEM=FujitsuTANDEM
FujitsuElm=FujitsuElm
FujitsuMaple=FujitsuMaple
FujitsuSycamore=FujitsuSycamore
FujitsuV66NAS=FujitsuV66NAS
GatewayE1200=GatewayE1200
GatewayE1400=GatewayE1400
GatewayProfile=GatewayProfile
GatewaySolo=GatewaySolo
Gigabyte=Gigabyte
HitachiFlora220CX=HitachiFlora220CX
HitachiFlora220MP=HitachiFlora220MP
HitachiFlora270EX=HitachiFlora270EX
HitachiFlora270VX-NH7=HitachiFlora270VX-NH7
HPAshaki02/24/99=HPAshaki02/24/99
HPHPBDD=HPHPBDD
HPHPCCD=HPHPCCD
HPKayakXUMP=HPKayakXUMP
HPLH4=HPLH4
HPPuma02/12/99=HPPuma02/12/99
HPScimitar=HPScimitar
IBMAPTIVA145=IBMAPTIVA145
IBMTP240SandShark=IBMTP240SandShark
IntelKauai=IntelKauai
IntelL440GX=IntelL440GX
IntelOR84009/14/99=IntelOR84009/14/99
IntelSea2=IntelSea2
IwillDBS100=IwillDBS100
MicronAtlanta=MicronAtlanta
MicronTrek2U375=MicronTrek2U375
NCRS20GX=NCRS20GX
NECPowerMate8100=NECPowerMate8100
NECVersaNote=NECVersaNote
NECVersaNoteC2=NECVersaNoteC2
NECVersaLXAGP+=NECVersaLXAGP+
NECZ1=NECZ1
QDIGRP010599=QDIGRP010599
SiemensMobile750=SiemensMobile750
SonyF290=SonyF290
SonyN505=SonyN505
Sonypcg777=Sonypcg777
Sonypcg888=Sonypcg888
Sonypcgf16=Sonypcgf16
SonyPCVL300=SonyPCVL300
Sonypcvs520=Sonypcvs520
Sonypcvs720=Sonypcvs720
Sonyz505dx=Sonyz505dx
SuperMicro = SuperMicro
ToshibaPortege3300=ToshibaPortege3300
ToshibaSatellite4030XCDT=ToshibaSatellite4030XCDT
Tyan=Tyan
ViaVP3A=ViaVP3A


As far as I understand, attempting a Windows XP install in any of these will result in the machine using any of the non-ACPI HALs. If you try to force the HAL with F5 during installation, I can only speak as to what happens with the OR840: it will not boot. There is another way to force ACPI though, modify the option ACPIEnable = 2 to ACPIEnable = 1 under the [ACPIOptions] header of the aforementioned file. This will allow the installer to probe for ACPI compatible BIOS and install the proper HAL independent of what the "bad BIOS list" says. So, the good news is this behavior can be changed, but would you want to? Motherboards get put in the "bad BIOS list" due to instabilities, as tested by Microsoft. So what to do?
justInstalled.jpg

Well, I risked it based on a hunch: the OR840 is listed as IntelOR84009/14/99, and according to some google-fu and with the help of the internet archive, I realized that the BIOS versions at that date were the very first available for the board: 0127.P01, 0128.P01, or 0129.P01. The last BIOS version available for the machine is 0255.P04, released in 2001. During the various BIOS revisions, S3 states were added and removed, and my hope is that any ACPI malfunction was ironed out enough to run the system stably.

I'll report on this after some time has passed.
Last edited by slivercr on 2017-12-06 @ 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / Radeon 8500 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win98SE - WinXPPro
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby luckybob » 2017-12-06 @ 18:06

i learned something new today. thank you.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
User avatar
luckybob
l33t
 
Posts: 2932
Joined: 2009-4-30 @ 04:43

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby slivercr » 2017-12-07 @ 07:53

luckybob wrote:i learned something new today. thank you.


Nah, thank you for showing interest every time I post about this machine—glad someone's reading! :lol:
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / Radeon 8500 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win98SE - WinXPPro
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby luckybob » 2017-12-07 @ 07:59

Well, these are all things I'm going to do with my system. eventually. I swear it is on the first page! I only just got my special eprom programmer adapter the other day. Had to ship it in from the UK. I love my GQ-4X but christ-on-a-stick they want so much for adapters it's literally the definition of asinine.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.
User avatar
luckybob
l33t
 
Posts: 2932
Joined: 2009-4-30 @ 04:43

Re: "Outrigger" OR840 build

Postby slivercr » 2017-12-13 @ 10:27

A couple of follow-ups

Concerning RDRAM troubles
I have commented a few times about my trouble with big RDRAM modules and how the machine becomes unstable with them. I've hypothesized basically everything under the sun: 40ns modules make the machine unstable, ECC makes the machine unstable, ICH controller is at fault, old caps, etc. After a full recap and thorough cleaning of the RAM slots I had plugged in 1.5 GB of RAM and forgotten about the issues, but recently these problems have resurfaced with a vengeance.

At the moment the facts are: Using 2x 256 MB modules in Channel 1 and CRIMMs in Channel 2 works perfectly. Plugging in 2x 512 MB modules in Ch1 while leaving CRIMMs in Ch2 will not boot into Windows. Using 4x 256 MB modules to fill up both channels will not boot into Windows. Using CRIMMs in Ch1 and 256 MB modules in Ch2 will not boot into Windows… I tried these configurations with Tualatins and Coppermines, both dual and single setups. I cleaned the memory slots again early in the morning, but no dice: at the moment 512 MB of RDRAM sit in the machine while I write this and wonder wtf is wrong. I think something is up with Channel 2, and whatever it is it meddles with the ability to address 512 MB modules in Ch1. I am thinking as I write, but from what I remember reading about how RDRAM works, its sounds plausible and not too crazy.

All this said, I guess I can refute some theories: it wasn't the caps, because problems persisted after a full recap. The 40ns module theory is nonsense, as is the ECC module theory: the machine currently has 40ns, ECC modules and is working fine. The ICH misbehaving might be a thing, but at the moment I'm inclined to say its not the ICH that's at fault.

I'll take a look at some schematics and datasheets this weekend and see if I can figure out what's wrong with the RAM. Hopefully I can fix it and be rid of these issues once and for all.

Concerning ACPI Windows XP
Now for good news: the machine is happily "purring" (slightly stuck Radeon 8500 fan, gotta clean it :-P) with Windows XP running. While the amount of RAM is not ideal, I haven't suffered any slow downs, crashes or instabilities after I switched to 512 MB RDRAM only. So far, it seems any instability problem was indeed ironed out in later revisions of the BIOS and ACPI is viable with XP.
Outrigger: OR840 / 2x P3-S 1400 / Radeon 8500 / Voodoo2 SLI / Win98SE - WinXPPro
User avatar
slivercr
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 2017-2-16 @ 18:00

Previous

Return to System Specs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest