TrashPanda wrote on 2022-06-10, 13:18:

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-10, 11:53:

Pretty sure it doesn't. If you thought of that because of that 40A rail on the PSU, it ain't even close to that lol. It has a 30 […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-06-10, 10:41:

Does Duron have the same heavy +5v requirements that Athlon XP does ?

Pretty sure it doesn't. If you thought of that because of that 40A rail on the PSU, it ain't even close to that 🤣. It has a 30A part from what I remember when recapping it, and the 12v should be a 20A rectifier if my memory serves me right.

I mean the Duron and Sempron were basically the Celerons of AMD's Socket 462 line, more or less. The Duron is basically as low power as a Celeron in terms of TDP.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2022-06-10, 10:56:

Not that it makes any sense in a performance or budget scenario, but I’d look for a Duron 1800 just so I could call it “The Last Duron”.

I'll definitely try a 1800 if I ever find one out in the wild. IIRC the K7VZA 3.0 does support some Athlon XPs as well, if I remember correctly (T-Bred A and B, as well as Palominos).

Not really its just that I know that Athlon XP (Especially Barton class 3000+/3200+)likes to have a decent amperage on the +5v rail and since Duron essentially runs on the same platform I was curious if it too likes a heavy +5v rail. Its nice to know it doesnt need one and is happy enough with a more normal delivery.

I have an unlocked Barton 3200+that was picky about the PSU I tried to run it with, ended up using a 600watt Chinesium PSU that has 35 amps on the +5v rail and it seems happy enough with it, its also got a -5v rail too ...so if I ever find a 462 board with an ISA slot it could in theory run ISA sound cards that need the -5v rail.

Duron should be somewhat lighter on the 5v line, kinda similar to how a lower clocked Athlon XP would also have somewhat lower TDP.

I remember back when we were building higher end Thunderbird systems (1100 to 1400 MHz or so), we'd sometimes have weird stability issues which could be fixed by swapping out the (on paper sufficiently powered on the 5v line) PSU with a PSU with wayyy over the top amperages on 5v. For any 1400MHz Thunderbird we'd want at least 30A if only because we knew it would at least plug that potential hole of stability issues (because getting those early ASUS A7V and A7V133 boards stable enough for our tastes was a challenge in itself and the more potential issues you could prevent, the less we had to go through if any stability issues would emerge).

I found that using a PSU with mediocre amps on the 5v line would often lead to odd stability issues like for instance intermittent BSoD's and often unreproducable system hangs, even with PSUs that should have strong enough 5v lines on paper. Since then I've always used at least 30A-on-the-5v-line good quality PSU (for that time) for any sA system except the lowest clocked ones which I did trust putting a 25A unit in there (think 900MHz Thunderbird or so).

Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-12, 08:36:

Duron should be somewhat lighter on the 5v line, kinda similar to how a lower clocked Athlon XP would also have somewhat lower T […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-06-10, 13:18:

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-10, 11:53:

Pretty sure it doesn't. If you thought of that because of that 40A rail on the PSU, it ain't even close to that 🤣. It has a 30A part from what I remember when recapping it, and the 12v should be a 20A rectifier if my memory serves me right.

I mean the Duron and Sempron were basically the Celerons of AMD's Socket 462 line, more or less. The Duron is basically as low power as a Celeron in terms of TDP.

I'll definitely try a 1800 if I ever find one out in the wild. IIRC the K7VZA 3.0 does support some Athlon XPs as well, if I remember correctly (T-Bred A and B, as well as Palominos).

Not really its just that I know that Athlon XP (Especially Barton class 3000+/3200+)likes to have a decent amperage on the +5v rail and since Duron essentially runs on the same platform I was curious if it too likes a heavy +5v rail. Its nice to know it doesnt need one and is happy enough with a more normal delivery.

I have an unlocked Barton 3200+that was picky about the PSU I tried to run it with, ended up using a 600watt Chinesium PSU that has 35 amps on the +5v rail and it seems happy enough with it, its also got a -5v rail too ...so if I ever find a 462 board with an ISA slot it could in theory run ISA sound cards that need the -5v rail.

Duron should be somewhat lighter on the 5v line, kinda similar to how a lower clocked Athlon XP would also have somewhat lower TDP.

I remember back when we were building higher end Thunderbird systems (1100 to 1400 MHz or so), we'd sometimes have weird stability issues which could be fixed by swapping out the (on paper sufficiently powered on the 5v line) PSU with a PSU with wayyy over the top amperages on 5v. For any 1400MHz Thunderbird we'd want at least 30A if only because we knew it would at least plug that potential hole of stability issues (because getting those early ASUS A7V and A7V133 boards stable enough for our tastes was a challenge in itself and the more potential issues you could prevent, the less we had to go through if any stability issues would emerge).

I found that using a PSU with mediocre amps on the 5v line would often lead to odd stability issues like for instance intermittent BSoD's and often unreproducable system hangs, even with PSUs that should have strong enough 5v lines on paper. Since then I've always used at least 30A-on-the-5v-line good quality PSU (for that time) for any sA system except the lowest clocked ones which I did trust putting a 25A unit in there (think 900MHz Thunderbird or so).

I have a few other PSUs with lower 5v amps, 30,25 and 20 so I may piss around and see just how low I can go with the 3200+ and the EPoX EP-8RDA+Pro, its a great board so hopefully I can use a lower amp PSU as I still dont trust the SHAW 600watt its using ..chinesium PSU at its finest.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-12, 08:16:

Any idea how your ceramic CPUs are all dead? Or were those CPUs that you just hadn't tested yet?

Interesting, I never even thought of using a Duron in a sA SDRAM motherboard. I always ended up using either Thunderbirds or Palominos for these boards (also because I have few Durons, most systems here in The Netherlands seemed to contain Athlon XPs).

I'm somewhat surprised to see you mention the IBM/Hitachi Deskstar as a loud drive, or is it only loud if it does reads or writes?

No idea. Some do look like they have chipped cores, the one ceramic Athlon I own barely had any chipping though. It just refused to POST in any board I tested it on.

As for the Deskstar, it literally sounds like an angle grinder from spinup onwards. It's been made to sound like that from factory. It does compensate that by being blazing fast, faster than any Maxtor or WD I had of the same capacity.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-06-12, 08:50:

I have a few other PSUs with lower 5v amps, 30,25 and 20 so I may piss around and see just how low I can go with the 3200+ and the EPoX EP-8RDA+Pro, its a great board so hopefully I can use a lower amp PSU as I still dont trust the SHAW 600watt its using ..chinesium PSU at its finest.

FWIW Shaw's units are all Linkworlds from what I remember seeing over on Badcaps, though I could be a bit wrong.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-12, 09:25:

No idea. Some do look like they have chipped cores, the one ceramic Athlon I own barely had any chipping though. It just refused […]
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Tetrium wrote on 2022-06-12, 08:16:

Any idea how your ceramic CPUs are all dead? Or were those CPUs that you just hadn't tested yet?

Interesting, I never even thought of using a Duron in a sA SDRAM motherboard. I always ended up using either Thunderbirds or Palominos for these boards (also because I have few Durons, most systems here in The Netherlands seemed to contain Athlon XPs).

I'm somewhat surprised to see you mention the IBM/Hitachi Deskstar as a loud drive, or is it only loud if it does reads or writes?

No idea. Some do look like they have chipped cores, the one ceramic Athlon I own barely had any chipping though. It just refused to POST in any board I tested it on.

As for the Deskstar, it literally sounds like an angle grinder from spinup onwards. It's been made to sound like that from factory. It does compensate that by being blazing fast, faster than any Maxtor or WD I had of the same capacity.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-06-12, 08:50:

I have a few other PSUs with lower 5v amps, 30,25 and 20 so I may piss around and see just how low I can go with the 3200+ and the EPoX EP-8RDA+Pro, its a great board so hopefully I can use a lower amp PSU as I still dont trust the SHAW 600watt its using ..chinesium PSU at its finest.

FWIW Shaw's units are all Linkworlds from what I remember seeing over on Badcaps, though I could be a bit wrong.

The only good thing about it is that it has not exploded and burnt the house down yet, I have had it for years and dont remember where I got it but SHAW had a bad reputation here in Australia for dirt cheap PSUs back in the day that would randomly die and either start a fire or take the PC with it.

So far its behaved itself but I dont feel comfortable in keeping a 3200+ attached to it 🤣.

If it's a standard sized PSU, those should have 30A rectifiers on the 5v line, if my memory serves me right (I have a Powerlink made by Linkworld as well...). If however it's half the length of a standard ATX PSU, then definitely ditch it.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-12, 10:49:

If it's a standard sized PSU, those should have 30A rectifiers on the 5v line, if my memory serves me right (I have a Powerlink made by Linkworld as well...). If however it's half the length of a standard ATX PSU, then definitely ditch it.

Standard size ATX, with 35amps on the +5v and odly enough it has a -5v rail too .. tho being ATX I doubt its usable. (680watts rated, 30a +3.3v, 18a +12v .. so the 12v rail blows but its a P4 era psu so perfectly fine for that age, it also weighs pretty much nothing)

If by any chance the model is LPK2-30, then I suppose it will do about 300-320W, and should have a 30A rectifier inside. I'll be checking my Powerlink later and will report back.

Looking back on the specs, I'm thinking I might do some slight changes:

- install a RTL8139C in it (though I think I've already done that, but just to be sure I'll check when I finally get home.)
- maybe replace the C-Media soundcard with something more refined - I'm not sure at the moment since I'm torn between leaving the 8738 (especially since it's the 5.1 version and I have good support thru Terratec's drivers) and going with some of the earlier Audigy 1 cards (there are some cheap ones that are sold in my country that I could get but again, not sure if they would fare any better than a 8738)
- definitely replace the hard drive (its angle grinder sound literally gets on my nerves by now, even if it's barely audible through normal use) - I think I still have some 40GB WDs that should be great to use, as well as some slim Maxtors (which would probably be much more fitting considering the era this machine should be from, which should be ~2001-02, more or less - some of the parts are just for comodity, e.g the DVD-RW drive)
- possibly replace the heatsink, although not sure if a Duron 1600 might benefit so much from one of those Titan sized behemoths whatsoever - I mean seriously, this thing is probably only slightly better than a Tualeron 1100, despite lacking in the cache sector (64KB instead of 256KB), and doesn't require unholy amounts of cooling.
- replace the TV tuner if it doesn't work - this one I haven't managed to test as I didn't have time, but if it doesn't work, I have a Conexant CX23881 based Pixelview that should fit just good in there, as well as some classy BT878 based K-World tuners.
- either replace the DVD-RW eject rubber ring or replace the DVD drive altogether - this will depend on how good it will be able to read discs - I will put this up against a Hitachi-LG I've kept aside (I think it's a white faced GSA-H12N) and check how both would read some older discs I have that were subject to some not-very-nice-but-still-readable degradation over time (mind you, some of those discs go as back as 1994 in some cases, most of them being early 2000s though.)
- GPU wise I'm really not sure - on one hand I'd keep the FX5200 as it's a bit more easy on the drivers than GF4 MX, but on the other hand I'd literally go GF4 MX just because the retired Slot A build that this Duron is supposed to replace has had a golden GF4 MX440SE (which is now relegated to an ABIT BE6-II build that I'll probably dismantle for some time until I can get modified slotkets to play nice with it, and most Slot 1 mainboards I have in general, and then turn it into some absolutely gorgeous Slot 1 machine - I'm thinking a Geforce 2 Pro but I'd be keen on going 4MX too - I'll be asking y'all for some suggestions on each of the components (except NIC, that will be either a RTL8139 again, or whatever Intel card will work the best at decent speeds without me having an aneurysm because of it.)

PcBytes wrote on 2022-07-04, 10:24:

Looking back on the specs, I'm thinking I might do some slight changes: […]
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Looking back on the specs, I'm thinking I might do some slight changes:

- install a RTL8139C in it (though I think I've already done that, but just to be sure I'll check when I finally get home.)
- maybe replace the C-Media soundcard with something more refined - I'm not sure at the moment since I'm torn between leaving the 8738 (especially since it's the 5.1 version and I have good support thru Terratec's drivers) and going with some of the earlier Audigy 1 cards (there are some cheap ones that are sold in my country that I could get but again, not sure if they would fare any better than a 8738)
- definitely replace the hard drive (its angle grinder sound literally gets on my nerves by now, even if it's barely audible through normal use) - I think I still have some 40GB WDs that should be great to use, as well as some slim Maxtors (which would probably be much more fitting considering the era this machine should be from, which should be ~2001-02, more or less - some of the parts are just for comodity, e.g the DVD-RW drive)
- possibly replace the heatsink, although not sure if a Duron 1600 might benefit so much from one of those Titan sized behemoths whatsoever - I mean seriously, this thing is probably only slightly better than a Tualeron 1100, despite lacking in the cache sector (64KB instead of 256KB), and doesn't require unholy amounts of cooling.
- replace the TV tuner if it doesn't work - this one I haven't managed to test as I didn't have time, but if it doesn't work, I have a Conexant CX23881 based Pixelview that should fit just good in there, as well as some classy BT878 based K-World tuners.
- either replace the DVD-RW eject rubber ring or replace the DVD drive altogether - this will depend on how good it will be able to read discs - I will put this up against a Hitachi-LG I've kept aside (I think it's a white faced GSA-H12N) and check how both would read some older discs I have that were subject to some not-very-nice-but-still-readable degradation over time (mind you, some of those discs go as back as 1994 in some cases, most of them being early 2000s though.)
- GPU wise I'm really not sure - on one hand I'd keep the FX5200 as it's a bit more easy on the drivers than GF4 MX, but on the other hand I'd literally go GF4 MX just because the retired Slot A build that this Duron is supposed to replace has had a golden GF4 MX440SE (which is now relegated to an ABIT BE6-II build that I'll probably dismantle for some time until I can get modified slotkets to play nice with it, and most Slot 1 mainboards I have in general, and then turn it into some absolutely gorgeous Slot 1 machine - I'm thinking a Geforce 2 Pro but I'd be keen on going 4MX too - I'll be asking y'all for some suggestions on each of the components (except NIC, that will be either a RTL8139 again, or whatever Intel card will work the best at decent speeds without me having an aneurysm because of it.)

A comparison between a Duron 1600 and any Pentium 3 could be interesting though. Just to measure/benchmark it.

Regarding the heatsink, as long as it doesn't cause the CPU to become too hot and as long as swapping in the new HSF doesn't break anything, it's mostly a matter of finding one that cools sufficiently while being silent enough for your tastes.

I mean the actual one IS full copper (I don't exactly remember where did I have it from originally, but IIRC it had a stock AMD fan on it and not the Spire one that's currently installed), but I just think it might be too OP for a Duron 1600, and would fit something along the lines of an AXP in the 1900 - 2200 range, more than a Duron.

And even the big one is too OP then, that one would fit a 2500-3200+, considering it has a copper circle too. Guess I'll keep the small one then, and relegate the big one for a nForce 2 IGP build I'm planning. A7N8X-VM/400 w/ Chaintech 7NIF2 BIOS, GF4 MX 32MB onboard and I'm thinking either a 1700+, 1900+ or a 2200+. Depending on whichever actually POSTs.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-07-04, 10:24:

- possibly replace the heatsink, although not sure if a Duron 1600 might benefit so much from one of those Titan sized behemoths whatsoever - I mean seriously, this thing is probably only slightly better than a Tualeron 1100, despite lacking in the cache sector (64KB instead of 256KB), and doesn't require unholy amounts of cooling.

You can leave the cooling as is. just limit its speed with a resistor. It will be quiet. I will do this with my Celeron 1100 build - Titan TTC-D5...+resistor

There's no need to limit the speed on mine, the Spire fan is actually quiet enough to be inaudible. Unlike the Delta/Nidec fans of the same size that can be fitted on that heatsink.