VOGONS


Speed of a Retro PC

Topic actions

Reply 20 of 26, by Mike 01Hawk

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Granted 386 8mhz != P1 8mhz. So you think even P1 8mhz won't be too fast? (Just trying to be absolutely clear)

I think in my software slowdown it got it to a theoretical like 10mhz or lower (been a while since I tried playihng it) but it was jerky. Guess that's the bane of software slowdown.

Dell Optiplex Gxpro: Built solely so I could re-live my SB16 days properly with newly acquired sound pieces: MT-32, SCB-55, and DB50xg 😀

Reply 21 of 26, by Great Hierophant

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Granted 386 8mhz != P1 8mhz. So you think even P1 8mhz won't be too fast? (Just trying to be absolutely clear)

I would try to see whether the cache could be disabled, which is the real speed boost. I don't think it would be anymore than 2x the speed of a similarly clocked 386 if you disabled the cache. (most 386s didn't use cache.)

Reply 22 of 26, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

The thing is that slowing down only one component sometimes doesn't fix the problem, because the timing relations between components are different than on a real old system.
The CPU slowdown function on the Dell Optiplex seems to do a bit better than software utilities or those fake turbo buttons on 486 and 586 boards, but I'm wondering how the rest of the system behaves.

Reply 23 of 26, by Great Hierophant

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I would like to know how this slowdown timing works. Could it be lowering the frontside bus from 66MHz to 8Mhz? The frontside bus affects the timing for all other components in the system. The CPU multiplies the bus speed, the RAM, northbridge and southbridge chips run at the bus speed, the PCI bus at half the bus speed and the ISA bus at an eighth of the bus speed. I don't think its that simple, because the RAM and the PCI cards may fail at such low speeds. Those components are quite a bit faster than the contemporary hardware that Wing Commander was supposed to run on.

I would seriously consider the remastered Windows versions of Wing Commander I + II, even if it will cost you a small fortune to obtain if you can't obtain the right speed.

Reply 24 of 26, by Cloudschatze

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Don't fall into the mindset that the mentioned Dell PC is the only box to implement speed switching. I have several non-Dell Pentium and 486 PCs with the same functionality through the use of CTRL-ALT-(keypad -/+).

As far as Wing Commander is concerned, it seems to run at a "normal" speed on a 486DX2-66, after disabling the internal processor cache. This is easily done outside of the BIOS with the ICD/ICE, Icache, or 486cache utilities.

Everyone should have at least one 486 anyway, IMO. 😉

Reply 25 of 26, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Great Hierophant wrote:

I would like to know how this slowdown timing works. Could it be lowering the frontside bus from 66MHz to 8Mhz?

Yes. (see below)

Great Hierophant wrote:

The frontside bus affects the timing for all other components in the system. The CPU multiplies the bus speed, the RAM, northbridge and southbridge chips run at the bus speed, the PCI bus at half the bus speed and the ISA bus at an eighth of the bus speed. I don't think its that simple, because the RAM and the PCI cards may fail at such low speeds.

Your observation is correct for most modern chipset and board designs.

Since the time when CPUs got faster than the ISA bus, multiple clock speeds were needed for the different components.
There are two ways to get them matching within-specs:

1) Use an oscillator at a certain clock speed and multiply it x times to get the frequencies needed. This is the simplest solution, it's cheap to implement, and works stable up to very high frequencies. The drawbacks are that you don't always get the desired clock speed for a certain component, and unless you implement configurable multipiers (or dividers), some components may run out of spec.
2) Use a clock generator for each device that has to run at a different speeds. The advantage is that you have more flexibility, but you need more sophisticated bridge logic between the components, which is more expensive and not as efficient.

Most boards use a mix of both methods. So the Dell PC (and many others) have the buses running independent from the CPU clock and can be adjusted accordingly. My 486 board has CPU and PCI/VESA bus speeds linked, but can run the ISA bus from an extra 8 MHz clock generator. It always depends on the board design.

Reply 26 of 26, by Mike 01Hawk

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Cloudschatze wrote:

Don't fall into the mindset that the mentioned Dell PC is the only box to implement speed switching. I have several non-Dell Pentium and 486 PCs with the same functionality through the use of CTRL-ALT-(keypad -/+).

Well, that's a given 😉

Any links or other brands to look for?

I was figuring on sticking with Dell cause of its huge base + ease of finding parts on ebay.

Oh and yeah, 486 maybe in the future, but ugh.. don't know if I wanna re-live those days!

Dell Optiplex Gxpro: Built solely so I could re-live my SB16 days properly with newly acquired sound pieces: MT-32, SCB-55, and DB50xg 😀