VOGONS


First post, by Space Marine

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

This is my first post on that forum. 😀
I have found it on google, searching informations about old hardware and games.

Atm i'm upgrading an old P133 and making it a little better for supporting 3d accelerated versions of the racing simulators (like nascar racing 2, indycar racing 2, soda offroad...) done in the period 1995 - 1998.

I have a Athlon 64 3200+ with an x800gto2 and 2 3dfx voodoo2 SLI too, so i don't care about post 1998 glide games.

This is the config:

Case AT
Pentium 133 non-mmx (maybe i will upgrade it to 200 non-mmx or k6 233 with 3.2 voltage)
Luckystar P54CE family motherboard (430VX, does not support 2,8v mmx pentium 🙁 )
256kb pipelined burst cache on board (motherboard has a coast module, but i absolutely don't know how to distinguish on ebay compatible and uncompatible modules with it. It can be upgraded at a total of 512kb)
128 mb edo ram simm 60ns (4x32, but only 64 cachable by 430VX)
1,2 GB hard disk (soon 2 x 8GB)
Creative 3D Blaster PCI 4MB (Rendition Verite V1000)
Orchid Righteous 3D 4MB (3DFX Voodoo1)
Generic DVD reader (old cd was broken)
ESS 1668 isa audio card
Floppy 1,44
pci realtek LAN card (for cable connection)

Any suggestion about how to find the right coast module?
Any other upgrade suggestion?

Thanks in advance for the answers 😁

Reply 1 of 10, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

Wow, a Vérité1000 + Voodoo1 setup, very nice 😉

Space Marine wrote:

Any suggestion about how to find the right coast module?

I don't think it would make sense upgrading a COAST module on this board. The COAST socket was a rather short-lived marketing fad that helped selling cheap boards with little or no L2 cache, giving the user the option to upgrade at a later point, when the price for cache memory was supposed to fall. It didn't work out, because the COAST modules often were either incompatible, unreliable or simply too expensive. For these reasons, buyers ignored the socket and bought boards with more onboard cache right away. The price for COAST stayed very high and the slot remained unused on most boards.
When there is already some L2 cache onboard, cache size doesn't have a great impact on the performance an early Pentium systems. You wouldn't feel much of a difference in games if you upgraded the L2 cache.

Space Marine wrote:

Any other upgrade suggestion?

Do you have a special reason to keep the Lucky Star P54CE board? If not, I'd suggest getting a more modern board with support for Pentium MMX CPUs.

Reply 2 of 10, by Space Marine

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Nothing special, im using that mb because i already had that mb mounted.
I have many cards (especially video cards), but a mainboard need much more space, and i atm don't know where to add another one in my room xD

However, if i will have opportunity of changing MB, which one i should choose?
I would like to have USB ports already on the board (my mb doesnt have any), so i have one more pci free slot for adding a powervr PCX2 board (atm i have an apocalypse 3d pcx1 but no empty pci slots for it, one is used by the lan card).

And with the new mb, which cpu?

About the sound card, i was thinking at an sb awe 64 gold pnp isa, however it's pretty rare on ebay the gold version.

I'm searching for a rendition verite v2200 pci 8mb too and a voodoo1 6mb, but are pratically impossible to find, having found the v1000 was only a shot of luck 😁

Reply 3 of 10, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Space Marine wrote:

However, if i will have opportunity of changing MB, which one i should choose?

From your descriptions guess you'll need a board with the following specs (please correct me if I'm wrong): AT form factor, Pentium MMX support, at least four SIMM sockets, cacheable area above 64MB, as many PCI slots as possible, ISA slots and onboard USB controller.
Here are some suggestions:
Intel 430HX chipset: Asus P55T3P4, Gigabyte 586HX(2), Abit IT5H
VIA Apollo VX2 / AMD 640 chipset: FIC PA-2007, Shuttle HOT-603
These meet with your requirements and should be rather easy to find (as they were popular in their time). Just make sure they have the TAG-RAM installed in order to cache more than 64 MB RAM, and none of the important accessories are missing (e.g: USB slot covers).

Space Marine wrote:

And with the new mb, which cpu?

Intel Pentium 166-233MMX and AMD K6 233-266 match perfectly. You also could try your old P133 first, I bet it'll perform a bit faster on a newer board. If you want more speed, many of the boards mentioned above support AMD K6-2 CPUs.

Space Marine wrote:

About the sound card, i was thinking at an sb awe 64 gold pnp isa, however it's pretty rare on ebay the gold version.

An AWE64 would be a good idea, but you don't have to take the Gold version, since rarely any game uses the additional sample RAM. There seem to be a few AWE64 Gold cards on ebay right now, of course it depends on your location.

Space Marine wrote:

I'm searching for a rendition verite v2200 pci 8mb too and a voodoo1 6mb, but are pratically impossible to find, having found the v1000 was only a shot of luck 😁

Well, good luck finding the other parts!

Reply 4 of 10, by Space Marine

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

AT form factor, Pentium MMX support, at least four SIMM sockets, cacheable area above 64MB, as many PCI slots as possible, ISA slots and onboard USB controller

Quite correct, but 3 things:
- MMX support yes, but if it will support newer supersocket7 voltage it is not a bad thing 😀
- SIMMs are not needed: i already have some, but i have some sdram pc133 modules too (2x128/ 1x256), and however these are relatively easy to find.
- If these MBs will support harddisks bigger then 8 GB is better.
- Support for K6-III will be not bad too 😀

430HX isn't a chipset older then my 430VX?

Reply 6 of 10, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Space Marine wrote:
Quite correct, but 3 things: - MMX support yes, but if it will support newer supersocket7 voltage it is not a bad thing :) - SIM […]
Show full quote

Quite correct, but 3 things:
- MMX support yes, but if it will support newer supersocket7 voltage it is not a bad thing 😀
- SIMMs are not needed: i already have some, but i have some sdram pc133 modules too (2x128/ 1x256), and however these are relatively easy to find.
- If these MBs will support harddisks bigger then 8 GB is better.
- Support for K6-III will be not bad too 😀

Ah, I see. Well, there are many better options for SDRAM and Super-Socket-7 😉
Anything with ALI Aladdin V or VIA MVP3 chipset is recommended.
Aladdin V: Asus P5A-B, Gigabyte GA-5AA
MPV3: FIC VA503+, Epox EP-MVP3C2

Space Marine wrote:

430HX isn't a chipset older then my 430VX?

Yes, but the 430HX is the only Intel Socket7 chipset that doesn't have the 64MB cacheable area limit. VX and HX are about the same generation.

Reply 7 of 10, by Space Marine

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have check MBs photos on google:

the first 3 seems useless, have less slots then my actual 430VX 😒
The fourth is micro atx, but i need at format 😒

I have found that site that has lot of photos:
http://home.datacomm.ch/colo/Pics/Thumbs+%20F … Socket%207.html

What about these models? 😀

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … AT%20S1590S.jpg

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … MC%20AI5VG+.jpg

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … 0MVP3%20C-M.jpg

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … 20K6BV3+_66.jpg

http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … FI%20K6BV3+.jpg

Reply 8 of 10, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

First, I have to concur with 5u3; a Voodoo1 / Rendition Verite is a killer combo for early 3D games 😀 That is, unless you're playing "Mode X" DOS games (like Doom). Rendition Verite quite sucks at Mode X.

Space Marine wrote:

Any suggestion about how to find the right coast module?

Um, what is a "right coast module"? 😖

Space Marine wrote:

Any other upgrade suggestion?

Yes. You said the PC is to play old racing simulators, so the system won't be complete without a set gameport-based steering wheel. Something like Thrustmaster T1 or Mad Catz Analog.

You can also use USB steering wheels, but of course, they'll be useless for DOS-based racing games.

Reply 9 of 10, by Space Marine

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

A coast module is an upgradable cache module for the first pentium cpus. It is of the size of a dimm but obviously different.

My mainboard has 256k of cache soldered onboard, i can add another 256k with that module

About the racing wheel you are right but there are some problems:

1) i already have a logitech driving force pro usb for my main pc (it is probably the second best wheel avaiable today, the first is the logitech g25, but costs much more). I don't have the space for storing 2 wheels, considering that old ones are much bigger then new ones. (and my parents already would like to throw out of the window my dfp 🤣)

2) DFP is not well suitable for old games, because it has 900 degree (instead of 200/270), has usb, and need to be used together with logitech profiler for being at max efficiency.
In windows it is not a problem, but for dos games it is, since the profiler is win only.

3) Matcatz and thrustmaster wheels were good for 1996, but were much fragile and not reliable too, already when were still new. Now are old...

4) Much better choose would be something like:
microsoft sidewinder wheel series
or
logitech wingman formula gp series
gameport versions obviously.
(1998/2002 period)

BUT

a) need something for switching without win driver between single axis and dual axis pedal, so dos games that support this can take advantage of dual axis too.

b) have to choose between force feedback version and non force feedback version.
Force feedback is obviously a nice feature, but FF wheels does not move well in games without FF, they seems lacking of precision and feedback.

It isn't an easy choose at it could seems 😵

Reply 10 of 10, by 5u3

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Space Marine wrote:
What about these models? :) http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … AT%20S1590S.jpg http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pic […]
Show full quote

What about these models? 😀
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … AT%20S1590S.jpg
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … MC%20AI5VG+.jpg
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … 0MVP3%20C-M.jpg
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … 20K6BV3+_66.jpg
http://home.tiscalinet.ch/artois/Pics/Thumbs+ … FI%20K6BV3+.jpg

Well , they all have one thing in common, which is that at least one PCI slot is blocked by the CPU socket. Depending on the length of your PCI cards and the height/shape of your CPU heatsink/fan, you might not be able to use most of the PCI slots on some of these boards. From this point of view, the Tyan Trinity 100AT looks best.

Space Marine wrote:

Force feedback is obviously a nice feature, but FF wheels does not move well in games without FF, they seems lacking of precision and feedback.

I agree. I have the Logitech Wingman Formula Force GP, it is horrible in games that don't support FF effects. Also it's very cheaply made, I've had to replace all cable connections, some of the microswitches and re-solder many of the components on the PCB, because they tend to rip loose with all the rattling and shaking. 😦 From what I've heard, the non-FF gameport versions (the yellow ones) are much better.