VOGONS


First post, by mhenry676

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Ok. So I would like to build a machine to run Windows 98 SE for my old Win9x games and DOS (Mechwarrior 2 Titanium Trilogy, King's Quest 8, Star Wars Pod Racer, Older games like Doom95, Quake, etc) but I'd like some suggestions cause I have a few routes as far as hardware. Also, I have been using DOS/Windows/Linux for 20years now, but haven't touched Windows 9x for almost 10 years, so I'm a bit rusty, but playing with DOSBOX is bringing it back. (P.S. I'm 31, first computer was a TI-99 4A, followed by a Tandy 1000 8088, then a Tandy 1000 RLX 286 with my first hard drive of 40MB and 1MB RAM! I used Stacker to squeeze more into it!)

Another thing; are there any games/apps that won't run in 98 SE, but will in 95? I have both available to me. I don't remember if there were issues when I made the 98 jump back then.

What about the unofficial Windows98 SP 2.5 (http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html) ?

Here's the hardware I have available (that still have Win98 drivers available):

Mobos, CPUs, Slots:
ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe
--Athlon XP 2500+ Mobile (Unlocked) 1.8 GHz stock, overclocks to 2.5GHz
or
--Athlon 900MHz Thunderbird (not sure if it will work, but is Socket A)
-PCI and AGP 1.5v
-nForce 2 chipset and OnBoard nforce audio with APU
-USB 2.0
-Ultra133 and SATA
-DDR Memory 3 slots up to PC3200 (DDR 400)
-Max mem I can install 1GB

Dell Optiplex GX1 (freebie from work)
--Any P2 or P3 400-550 MHz
-Intel 440BX Chipset
-Integrated Audio (Crytal Semiconductor CS4236?)
-Integrated ATI Rage Pro AGP2x (4mb or 8mb, not sure,
--but does have a memory upgrade card for video)
-5 PCI, 2 shared with 2 ISA
-3 PC100/133 Mem Slots
-Max mem I can install 384MB or 512MB

Gateway Mobo (unsure of model, full ATX board)
--Socket Celeron 1GHz
or
--Socket Pentium 3 733MHz
(EDIT=Intel 815 chipset)
-PCI, AGP 3.3v (Edit=No ISA)
-USB 1
-3 PC100/133 Mem Slots
-Max mem I can install 384MB or 512MB

HP Slot Pentium 3 (EDIT=HP 8576C)
--Any P2 or P3 400-550 MHz Currently 550MHz
-MOBO built by ASUS (EDIT=P2B-VE)
-(EDIT=Intel 443ZX Chipset)
-PCI,ISA,AGP 3.3v
-USB 1
-2 PC100/133 Mem Slots
-Max mem I can install 256MB or 384MB

Video Cards:
-AGPs-
TNT2 VANTA ??MB (ASUS) (3.3v?)
GeForce 2 TI 64MB (1.5v or 3.3v, not sure) (EDIT=not a gf4)
GeForce FX 5600 256MB (ASUS A7N8X-E Only)
(EDIT=Have GF FX 5200 and GF6200 both 128M)
GeForce FX 6800 128MB (can unlock/OC to Ultra specs) (ASUS A7N8X-E Only)
Voodoo 3 3000 16MB
(EDIT=Don't have ATI Rage Fury)
-PCIs-
Voodoo 2 BlackMagic 3D 12MB (3D passthrough)
ATI All in Wonder 32MB (TV Tuner, In/Out S-Video,Composite Ports) (EDIT=32MB Rage Pro 128)

Sound Cards
SB Live PCI (CT4760)
SB Live 5.1 PCI
(EDIT=no SB16, but can get one easily)
AWE64 ISA (EDIT=ISA CT4500)

Memory
Mix of 128MB PC100, 1 128 PC133, 1 PC100 256
PC400 1GB (2x512) OCZ Gold 2-2-2-5 (ASUS A7N8X-E Only)

Other
Promise Ultra133 and Ultra66 cards
Silicone Image RAID/Ultra133 card
Many NICs
REALMagic DVD Decoder Card
XBOX Gamepads
MS Sidewinder Gamepads
MS Precision Pro Joystick
MS Sidewinder Strategic Commander
?

May use my 1440x900 monitor, using VGA port (DVI in use). This monitor will only strech a 4:3 resolution, so the 6800 with the latest drivers maybe the only one to force it to 4:3.

My first thought is to put the A7N8X-E together for the old-school gaming (I know, quite over the top), and use DOSBOX, VDM Sound, MoSlow, etc. when needed. I would like to go Roland LAPc-I if I can find one, but it's been hard. Is there a Roland PCI card? I can here the difference in DOSBOX on my old King's Quest games between Roland MT-32 and SB Midi (KQ5 for some reason at times sounds like there is an instument off on both, but SB Midi is less annoying). I think I can get around having 1GB in Win98. The geforce 6800 or 5600 FX may be good for running a glide wrapper, but might put the voodoo 2 in just in case. I'd also need to get a new heatsink for the 5600 or geforce 4 TI. The A7N8X-E is my current Media Center, but have a FOXCON MOBO with Athlon 64 3200 and 1GB RAM ready to go for that. Plus, everything I can put in the A7N8X-E is about the last of the Win98 Compatability.

Sorry if this seems choppy/and incomplete, but putting this post together at work, hoping to work on the machine tonight. I will update if needbe.

Last edited by mhenry676 on 2008-03-19, 04:20. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 10, by aleksej

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Sorry for short and incomplete reply. I can't explain my position more complex and full because english not my language 🙁
1. As i know Win98 not working or working very bad with nForce chipset.
i440bx will be best choice for this OS. And with right mobo you can reach in future upgrades up to 1.7ghz perfomance.
2. Win98 can't eat no more than 512mb RAM without issues. With some tricks you can use more (up to 1gb), anyway it is more buggy. With RAM even more, than 1gb normal work not guaranteed.
3. Video Card. Something from GeForce or Voodoo series. Not ATI. In many old DOS games ATI card have issues with horisontal scrolling (Keen, Dave2, Hocus Pocus and etc.)
4. Sound. You can happily use Live! and ISA SB card together. There is no big issues. And get normal directsound compatible and accelerated sound for win32 applications and pure ISA SB16 sound for DOS games. Use both.
5. http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html
This update pack is a bit outdated. Use MDCU package. More recent and still updating (description in russian, but don't worry. I can help you with this one if need).

Last edited by aleksej on 2008-03-18, 18:32. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 10, by DosFreak

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You need to make an Unattended 98 Boot CD first: http://www.msfn.org/board/Unattended-Boot-CD- … -46-t88008.html

(Don't install the Revolutions pack)

Then download the latest AutoPatcher and run it: http://www.msfn.org/board/Unattended-Boot-CD- … -46-t88008.html

Read this post concerning VCACHE: http://www.msfn.org/board/VCACHE-fix-attempt- … tml&mode=linear

Also feel free to post in that forum if you have any questions.

How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Make your games work offline

Reply 3 of 10, by mhenry676

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I know before, I had sometimes used RAMDRIVE or RAMDISK in config.sys/autoexec.bat. What about having 512M used for that before booting Win98, then direct the EMM386 to the ram drive? I know I can redirect pagefile in XP, but can't remember if it is doable in 98.

Main System: ASUS A8N32 SLI Deluxe | Athlon X2 4200+ 2.2GHz Stock (OC to 2.75GHz) | 4GB G.Skill DDR400 (OC to DDR500) | SLI XFX 550M & 570M GeForce 7950GT 512MB | SB Audigy 2 ZS Gamer | Cheap, Crappy Case!!!

Reply 4 of 10, by swaaye

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Just stick to 512MB or less in 9x. That's grossly huge for like every retro game anyway.

I'd go with 440BX, P3, GeForceFX, and a SB16 or AWE64 for DOS + SBLive (for Win). Ultra66/100/133 cards are nice for their speed benefit. No reason to gimp hard drive speed. I have never had a compatibility issue caused by them. Some of them don't get along with SBLive! and 440BX tho. You may need to swap PCI slots around to make them happy.

Reply 5 of 10, by mhenry676

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Unfortunately, the Dell GX1 I think is the 440BX you are referring to, and it has no AGP ports for a card, just integrated AGP ATI. I have to check the HP and Gateway boards though, and let you know (probably within the next 5 hrs).

Main System: ASUS A8N32 SLI Deluxe | Athlon X2 4200+ 2.2GHz Stock (OC to 2.75GHz) | 4GB G.Skill DDR400 (OC to DDR500) | SLI XFX 550M & 570M GeForce 7950GT 512MB | SB Audigy 2 ZS Gamer | Cheap, Crappy Case!!!

Reply 6 of 10, by MiniMax

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You might want to take a look here:

http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/solved-instal … on-vt20949.html
http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/no-ems-suppor … a--vt40715.html
http://www.nforcershq.com/forum/re-no-ems-sup … 2-vp317523.html

How I installed Win95 on an nForce2 rig.

DOSBox 60 seconds guide | How to ask questions
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Reply 7 of 10, by mhenry676

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UPDATED my hardware list!
Looks like I was right on most of it!

Main System: ASUS A8N32 SLI Deluxe | Athlon X2 4200+ 2.2GHz Stock (OC to 2.75GHz) | 4GB G.Skill DDR400 (OC to DDR500) | SLI XFX 550M & 570M GeForce 7950GT 512MB | SB Audigy 2 ZS Gamer | Cheap, Crappy Case!!!

Reply 8 of 10, by swaaye

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nForce 2 has more than one PCI bus, doesn't it? That will cause an issue with Vortex cards in 9x. There's a registry workaround out there, but I'm not sure how reliable it is.

To OP: Well, just build something and let us know how it goes. 😀 One can never tell exactly what the best DOS rig will be.

Reply 9 of 10, by mhenry676

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swaaye wrote:

nForce 2 has more than one PCI bus, doesn't it? That will cause an issue with Vortex cards in 9x. There's a registry workaround out there, but I'm not sure how reliable it is.

I didn't mention having a Vortex, so not sure what you mean?

swaaye wrote:

To OP: Well, just build something and let us know how it goes. 😀 One can never tell exactly what the best DOS rig will be.

Yeah, think you're right. It might take me a while, having little time during the week (work, 2 kids, etc.) and depending no time on the weekends (hasn't been that last two and this one coming is spoken for) Mostly why I was asking for the best route. Looks like I'm leaning towards this...

The HP ASUS P2B-VE board
550 P3
256MB (will try 384 with a 256 and 128)
Geforce 5600 FX 256MB (AGP)
?-Voodoo2 Black Magic-? (PCI-1)
REALMagic DVD card (PCI-2 - Maybe - for the hell of it)
Ultra133 card (PCI-3 - No other use for it anyway)
SB Live (PCI-4)
SB AWE64 (ISA - Line out to Line in of SB Live?)

I guess my main two questions with this setup...
1) Would there be a need for the Voodoo2? I have looked, but been able to find good info on if a glide wrapper (zeckensack's) is better or much difference to real voodoo2? Zeckensack even recomends the FX series over 6 series, so the 5600FX should be good. I need to buy a new heatsink for it though, so wanted to be sure.

2) Would going Line out to line in either way on the sound cards be good? or just split the Speaker outs to the speakers?

The A7N8X-E is still an awesome board. The XP 2500 mobile is unlocked so I can pump that at what ever speed I want. Cooled by a Thermalright SP-97 and takes an 80mm fan, so that is easily replaceable. Most of it's life has been at 2.5GHz and has outpaced my P4 HT 3.4GHz work machine. SiSoft Sandra gives it a ~3700MHz rating. The OCZ 2-2-2-5 RAM is TOPS! So, maybe when XP goes the way of 98, it will be my XP gaming RIG. Not letting that one go.

Main System: ASUS A8N32 SLI Deluxe | Athlon X2 4200+ 2.2GHz Stock (OC to 2.75GHz) | 4GB G.Skill DDR400 (OC to DDR500) | SLI XFX 550M & 570M GeForce 7950GT 512MB | SB Audigy 2 ZS Gamer | Cheap, Crappy Case!!!

Reply 10 of 10, by swaaye

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mhenry676 wrote:

I didn't mention having a Vortex, so not sure what you mean?

It just occured to me after the discussion about NF2 and Win95 above. NF2 can cause problems for Win9x drivers. Vortex is one example I've personally come across.

mhenry676 wrote:

1) Would there be a need for the Voodoo2? I have looked, but been able to find good info on if a glide wrapper (zeckensack's) is better or much difference to real voodoo2? Zeckensack even recomends the FX series over 6 series, so the 5600FX should be good. I need to buy a new heatsink for it though, so wanted to be sure.

2) Would going Line out to line in either way on the sound cards be good? or just split the Speaker outs to the speakers?

Zeckensack's Glide wrapper is excellent. I've used it with quite a few games. Of course, a Voodoo2 will be more compatible inevitably, but it also has its usual blurry texturing and will blur your 2D due to the passthru. I don't like that much at all. 😀

For multiple sound cards, I just run the outputs to the inputs and run the speakers off of a single card. Using a splitter works ok too, but I've found that it causes output level to drop. Some sort of electrical quirk/short when you connect both outputs, I'm guessing.

Last edited by swaaye on 2008-03-20, 18:39. Edited 1 time in total.