VOGONS


Retro Rig Photo Thread

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Reply 140 of 2703, by SavantStrike

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Very True. A lot of this stuff put out barely any heat at all because the power consumption was a lot lower. Only in the last 10-12 years has power consumption skyrocketed. It's pretty much locked at this point though as there's a practical limit to how much cooling an OEM can stuff into a box. A 100-150 watt power supply was generous for some of these boxes. Now, 300 watts is adequate, but not for a higher end machine.

I've moved past the days where I slap a heatsink on everything in sight, but back when I was in high school I thought it was good fun to modify every chassis I could get my hands on and then cool things that didn't even need it. I'm sad to say I put heatsinks on an Awe64 gold. It works fine, but those sinks aren't coming off and they block the ram expansion connector 🤣.

Nowadays I buy cases with the holes I want in them, or if I'm modifying something older (even mid 2000's vintage) I'll usually put a 120mm hole in the top and see about boring one out in the front. Often the manufacturer left a 80mm hole in the front, but drives are not blocking it, so a dremel can open it up to 120mm with minimal effort. 120's are nice because you can get 40cfm with very minimal noise. I guess the machine isn't stock anymore though so that might turn some off to the idea. Plus the top fan sometimes costs you a drive bay.

Reply 141 of 2703, by Tetrium

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SavantStrike wrote:

Plus the top fan sometimes costs you a drive bay.

I don't like cases with fans in the top because I tend to put all kinds of stuff on there, including drinks and other computer cases (which would block airflow anyway).
I use cases I find for free (I've only ever paid for a small handful of my cases) and, even though I could hack in a rear fan opening, I'm not exactly handy with tools and such.
And also many of my ATX cases are so old, a 120mm fan opening wouldn't even fit. I LOVE 120mm fans, but if I can't put one in a case of mine, then it kinda ends right there 😜

Btw, have any good tips on how you do it? Like, how do you start, where do you put the hole and how do you prevent the edges of the hole from being sharp?

And btw, I've got couple of those fan grills of all kinds of various sizes. I'll bet I got a couple 120mm's in there as well.

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Reply 142 of 2703, by SavantStrike

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Two ways:

The easiest way to do it is just to use a hole saw. You can snag one without an arbor for around ~30 USD, so with an arbor it's more like 40 ish. But it lasts forever as long as you don't burn your drill out 😀, especially in aluminum and plexi glass. Go slow as the torque is going to be pretty gnarly and most drills aren't really designed to cope with that kind of abuse, or if you've got access to a major drill then just gun it and hold on for dear life. My dad has a right angle drive unit drill that draws about 8 amps. The thing could probably break an arm if one wasn't careful. I'm spoiled using it, but I could do it with our cordless, it would just take a lot longer.

The other way is a Dremel. That's a lot harder as you need to use a circular cut off wheel and sort of cut it in small portions. Use it at a low RPM to score the metal all the way around and then ramp them up to cut through the bulk of the material. You'll then need to use a grinding wheel to clean up the edges. This is the method I typically use to cut a case window (so I can ogle the hardware). It takes a long dang time (like 30 minutes a cut), but the results are gorgeous. You can rush it if the cut area isn't going to show (like say a front intake that's covered by a plastic panel).

Either way you do it, it doesn't hurt to throw a fresh coat of paint on it when you're done. I probably spend between 2 and 6 hours on a case by the time I'm done messing with it.It's worth it to me though as I end up with something I can ogle without taking the side off, and my boxes always run as cool as possible. It would be overkill to do this for some stuff though. I can't imagine spending this much time and effort on say a 486 or 386, although I'd probably still put a window on the thing if possible.

The top holes have some pitfalls as you mentioned though. I've got my two vintage rigs in pieces right now, but the following picture demonstrates how it's difficult to stack them as they are thanks to the top hole. They have to be staggered to keep the feet from making contact with the grille. The solution will be to remove the grille from the top of the silver case here and hope someone doesn't get cute and try to drop something down that hole (or maybe they should, so the fan can whack them in the finger and they learn not to do it again, but that will most likely just break the fan... I've done it before). Those pics make the room look like the dump it currently is 🤣 . I'll have to take new ones when the boxes get finished.

rigsz.jpg

The top one will change to:
Sarah
PIII-S 1.4ghz with Slotket adapter and Via Apollo Pro 133A based motherboard (changed from PIII Coppermine 800/100/256 on 440BX mobo)
768MB PC133 Cas2 memory (yeah, the good stuff)!
Geforce 2 MX 32mb AGP card (with a heatsink added so I don't burn my fingers on it again)
2x 12MB STB Black Magic VooDoo2 cards in SLI (with a Blue SLI cable I may add)
Intel Pro 100 network card (the refresh with the smaller chip, it barely sticks out of the PCI slot, and consumes less juice)
SB Awe64 Gold with 32MB simmconn riser (so 28MB of usable memory), and the SPDIF out connector you see in the picture
60GB Maxtor ATA100 HDD (though it will run at ATA66)
3.5 inch FDD
32x CD Drive (I forget what speed it writes DVD's at, but it does that too)
400W el cheapo PSU (hey, it was enough for twin 533 mhz Xeons when I picked it up, so it should be fine)
Win98 SE

Universal AGP, so a V5 5500 would be bangin if I could swing it, but they are far too expensive and I've set a limit on my budget for the time being. Plus, I hope box 2 will make that unnecessary.

The Bottom One is locked as:
Rachel
P4 Northwood 2.8ghz/533mhz fsb in a Granite Bay based motherboard (E7205 chipset, Intels first dual channel DDR P4 chipset)
1GB dual channel DDR 266 (I forget the timings now)
Asus ATI Radeon 9800XT with Artic Cooling cooler - should be more enough for glide wrappers
2x 12MB STB Black Magic VooDoo2 cards in SLI (again, with a blue SLI cable 😀 )
Sb Live sound card (I might swap it back to an Audigy 2 ZS platinum or an Audigy Platinum Ex, but both of them gave me trouble on my OS of choice for this box
80GB Maxtor ATA100 HDD
Creative 12x DVD drive (with some read issues, but it still works for the most part)
Pioneer 16x DVD RW drive
Win98 SE, probably with WinXP as a second OS

Reply 143 of 2703, by Tetrium

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Thanks for your last post, it's very informative!

A friend of mine once cut 2 holes in a case of mine. The 2 holes were actually already present, but were the "many small holes with very bad ventilation" kind.
He first use a drill to cut several holes in regular distance in a circle, then used a jigsaw to cut the metal between the holes. It went VERY fast! Only thing is I had to sandpaper the edges afterwards for it would've been a cutting hazard 😜
The holes look somewhat zigzag-ish, but that's not a problem for me. The fan grills kinda camouflage that anyway, I only notice when I actually take a look at the holes.

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My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 144 of 2703, by SavantStrike

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Tetrium wrote:
Thanks for your last post, it's very informative! […]
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Thanks for your last post, it's very informative!

A friend of mine once cut 2 holes in a case of mine. The 2 holes were actually already present, but were the "many small holes with very bad ventilation" kind.
He first use a drill to cut several holes in regular distance in a circle, then used a jigsaw to cut the metal between the holes. It went VERY fast! Only thing is I had to sandpaper the edges afterwards for it would've been a cutting hazard 😜
The holes look somewhat zigzag-ish, but that's not a problem for me. The fan grills kinda camouflage that anyway, I only notice when I actually take a look at the holes.

Of course! A jig saw! Yes that would work nicely too. I saw a tutorial here about cutting with a jig saw. The guy literally cut letters out of the case and they came out beautifully. Actually that's a good tutorial for a number of reasons, it's where I picked up the Dremel scoring trick. Before that I used to be impatient and just cut as I went (which also works, but scoring the metal first is much easier).

And I know what you mean about the waffle style grilles in cases being difficult to cut out straight. Half the time they are punched larger than the diameter of the fan blades, often in a non circular pattern like a hexagon. There's no good way to remove them and make it look like they came that way from the factory, and sometimes not a lot of space to drill holes for the screws to keep the fan on the case.

The other trick i use is this double stick tape from Scotch. It's sort of a gel plastic based product and doesn't dry out, making it much better than the foam based stuff (that dries out after a few years and requires a scraper to get off). Since it's a jelly like substance, it also dampens vibration, so it's perfect for mounting fans to thin steel or aluminum cases where the case would pick up that vibration. I've used it to mount fans, panels, hard drives, you name it, and none of it comes off on it's own, yet comes right off when I want it to. Careful not to cover too much surface area though or you'll be pulling on it with all of your strength and then some to get it off. It's similar in consistency to the stuff they use to hold body panels on cars (though a bit less sticky), to give more of an idea of just how strong the adhesion is.

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Reply 145 of 2703, by Tetrium

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The hint with the tape is a good one! 😉

I never even knew it existed, next time I'm in one of those "hardware" shops, I'll definitely go look for it, it sounds useful 😉

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 146 of 2703, by SquallStrife

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So I dragged my camera and lighting gear out for a bit of fun.

1. Coppermine 1GHz P3 "EB" with GeForceFX 5600, Voodoo 2 12MB and Hercules Gametheater XP. Made a custom back place to give me an extra stereo line-in.

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High-res version

Intel Pentium III EB 1GHz
Gigabyte GA-6OXT Motherboard
512MB PC133 SDRAM
nVidia GeForceFX 5600 AGP VGA
Creative Voodoo 2 12MB PCI
3Com Etherlink III PCI NIC
Hercules Gametheater XP PCI Audio
40GB Seagate ATA HDD
Pioneer ATA DVD-RW

2. Pentium 200 MMX, Canopus Pure3D Voodoo Graphics 6MB, Matrox Millennium II 4MB, Audio Excel AV310 (CMI8330) with NEC DB50XG clone.

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Used a little bit of foam to stop the DB touching the components on the sound card.

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Intel Pentium MMX 200MHz
PC Partner VX Motherboard
64MB EDO RAM
Matrox Millennium II PCI VGA
Canopus Pure3D Voodoo 6MB PCI
DEC PCI Combo NIC
Audio Excel AV310 (CMI8330) ISA Audio w/ NEC XR385 DB
40GB Seagate ATA HDD
4X ATA CD-ROM

After spending two afternoons tidying up the cables in these suckers, I appreciate the niceness of SATA cables more than ever. Fat ribbons are a pain in the butt to keep tidy.

For those interested, the P3 was shot under normal fluorescent tubes, the Pentium MMX was shot under incandescent spot lights. A consequence of the latter being that anything in frame not lit by the spot light will have a blue tint.

VogonsDrivers.com | Link | News Thread

Reply 148 of 2703, by megatron-uk

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Finally got some pictures of my current retro system today:

Case is an old Fujitsu that bears no relation to the current internals
iBase MB800H industrial P4 motherboard (i845GE)
Northwood 2.26GHz P4
2 x 512MB DDR333
AGP MSI Geforce FX5600 128MB
PCI Intel Pro 1000MT NIC
PCI Diamond Monster 3D 4MB
PCI Soundblaster Live CT4760
ISA Soundblaster 16 + NEC XR385
ISA Midiman MM401
ISA Gravis Ultrasound MAX 1MB

Storage is currently just a single 500GB IDE as I'm trying to make it a bit more practical by using ISO images (via Daemon tools in Win98 and in DOS via SHSUCDX.exe; still experimenting there!) - though I'm adding a CF bay, and of course there's the gigabit ethernet to pull anything large across.

p4-1.jpg

p4-2.jpg

p4-3.jpg

I'm also building up the original 286 motherboard from my very first PC - it's not got a case yet (crikey, AT cases are difficult to find these days!), but the spec is currently:

AMD 286-16
4 x 1MB 60ns 30pin simms
ISA 16bit 1MB CL5428 VGA
ISA 16bit SB16
ISA 8bit Roland MPU-IPC
ISA 16bit Winbond multi-io

There's tons of other stuff in my collection too - far too much to go into any detail here, but it includes various Amigas, Acorn/BBC's, Spectrum, loads of various consoles and some exotic stuff my two SGI workstations. I catalogue it all on my website: http://targetearth.dyndns.org/ in my videogame database as there is no way I can remember it all... there have been occasions when I've nearly bought multiples of certain things because I simply couldn't remember what I had.
It's also not a bad idea from an insurance perspective in case something bad should happen.

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 149 of 2703, by SavantStrike

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Wow, that's nice. And you've actually got networking working with 98SE. I really need to get around to doing that again.

But... there are two unpopulated slots for fans in that case, and there's a Pentium 4 in it. How is it not on fire? My Northwood had some crazy needs.

Reply 150 of 2703, by megatron-uk

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The 2.26 Northwood only has a tdp of around 52w (similar to my Pentium Pro 200 which only had a heatsink, not a hsf, and one 80mm case fan), so it's actually not that bad - quite warm, but certainly not dangerously hot. I'm looking to put the top Northwood - the 3.06GHz - in there, and will definitely add at least one case fan for that.

Networking on these earlier versions of Windows can be a pain - especially when you mix later clients (XP/Vista/7) in with them and want to use a single file server; as the authentication protocol changed (from lanman/plain auth to encrypted/spnego) over the years - I got it working after a while pulling my hair out! Thankfully a quick reboot into Linux and everything is nice and standard... it's actually still a rather useable workstation when you do that!

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 151 of 2703, by keropi

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megatron-uk wrote:

[...]

Storage is currently just a single 500GB IDE as I'm trying to make it a bit more practical by using ISO images (via Daemon tools in Win98 and in DOS via SHSUCDX.exe; still experimenting there!) - though I'm adding a CF bay, and of course there's the gigabit ethernet to pull anything large across.
[... ]

SHSUCDX supports .iso loading? is it a special version?
also I too use DT on my winME machine... takes some time to make your ISOS (and find bypass methods for protections) but it worths it in the end 😊

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 152 of 2703, by megatron-uk

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keropi wrote:
megatron-uk wrote:

[...]

Storage is currently just a single 500GB IDE as I'm trying to make it a bit more practical by using ISO images (via Daemon tools in Win98 and in DOS via SHSUCDX.exe; still experimenting there!) - though I'm adding a CF bay, and of course there's the gigabit ethernet to pull anything large across.
[... ]

SHSUCDX supports .iso loading? is it a special version?
also I too use DT on my winME machine... takes some time to make your ISOS (and find bypass methods for protections) but it worths it in the end 😊

I found the information when playing around with FreeDOS....

http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/mix_entry.php?id=7788

You just need to use one of the CD-ROM emulator drivers that comes with it....

http://adoxa.110mb.com/shsucdx/index.html

I've not thoroughly tested it yet, and I presume that redbook audio is not going to work, seeing as it's not hooked into anything 😀

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 154 of 2703, by megatron-uk

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Seeing as both the ISO device driver and mscdex replacement are both dynamically loadable and unloadable I was planning on scripting a few batch files for CDROM games that install to the HD but use/or-check that the cdrom is actually present.

Something like...

tie.bat:
c:\fdos\SHSUCDHD.exe d:\iso\sw-tie.iso
c:\fdos\SHSUCDX.exe
tie
c:\fdos\SHSUCDX.exe /u
c:\fdos\SHSSUCDHD.exe /u

My collection database and technical wiki:
https://www.target-earth.net

Reply 155 of 2703, by Tetrium

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SavantStrike wrote:

Nice!

That Pentium looks like it's an overdrive

The Pentium is a Pentium MMX boxed version. It has the same little glued heatsink and fan except that the fan draws it's power from the cable instead of directly from the CPU 😉.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
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Reply 156 of 2703, by SquallStrife

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Tetrium wrote:

The Pentium is a Pentium MMX boxed version. It has the same little glued heatsink and fan except that the fan draws it's power from the cable instead of directly from the CPU 😉.

Interestingly it has the ceramic body like the Pentium 133 it replaced, rather than that black fibreglass-y body which my 166MMX had back in the day.

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Reply 157 of 2703, by GXL750

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The non-MMX 200mhz Pentium in my Micron box has the plastic pin grid array packaging. During the production of the Pentium and Pentium MMX, the packaging varied. However, I've never seen a chip slower than 166mhz to use the PPGA packaging and I've never seen a part faster than 90mhz to have the gold heat spreader.

Reply 159 of 2703, by SavantStrike

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swaaye wrote:
I hope you guys don't mind me tainting my thread. :D […]
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I hope you guys don't mind me tainting my thread. 😁

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I swear the ibook looks like a toilet seat. I loved the power mac styling, but they were asleep at the switch with the ibook.

And RE: Pentium MMX retail box versions, why would they force you into a specific heatsink. That's just cruel!