Option 2 Gateway Tabor2 http://support.gateway.com/s//MOTHERBD/...46nv.shtml Pro is it’s a BX chipset Con only has 1 Isa slot, m […]
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Option 2 Gateway Tabor2
http://support.gateway.com/s//MOTHERBD/...46nv.shtml
Pro is it’s a BX chipset
Con only has 1 Isa slot, max Ram 384MB (Will I notice the difference between 384/512)

No, the max RAM is 768MB. All BX boards support 256MB DIMMs in each slot, regardless of what the official documentation says.

However, the 512MB limit on the P2Z isn't really a big deal anyway... 512MB is plenty for 98SE. So there's no reason not to use that one if you have use for the extra ISA slot.

You cannot use the Xeon. Those are Slot2, which is entirely different from Slot1.

Arg I forgot the sound cards!
I’m thinking of a SB Live 5.1 as I seem to remember NFS supported Dolby and would like to give that a try. SB Live also emulates SB16 in Dos which I gather is the best sound card for dos?

Midi is new territory for me I assumed I needed to get anther sound card but it looks like these are actually external devices? For the games above which Midi card would be best?

Thanks again

Re The RAM I know gateway must have done something funny as I did try 3 x 256 but it simply ignored the rest!?!? joys of big brands I guess?
So in the end you dont think ill notice much differance between the BX & ZX chipsets?
Thanks again!

SB Live should only be a last resort for DOS, get an ISA SB-16 or AWE32.

As for MIDI, I recommend a NEC XR385 daughterboard that will attach to a SB-16 or AWE32,it's XG synth is generally awesome, you may also want to pick up a MT-32 for Sierra games, and you can just get a MIDI cable for those sound cards to hook that up.

You generally do want a BX chipset, I'm not completely educated on it's merits, but AFAIK, it was so awesome that it's the chipset VMware and Microsoft Virtual PC emulate for virtualization.

I think for his games it really doesn't matter if he goes for the ZX or BX as both are quite similar. It also doesn't matter if he uses 384 MB or 768 MB. (NFS Porsche recommended requirements are 64 MB).
The only thing would be that he might add something like a GUS in a second ISA slot, since it is usually difficult to get GUS and a decent GM/GS Midi Wavetable together in one ISA slot.
For Glide I would use either a Voodoo3 as main card or add a Voodoo(2) as secondary card. In this case as main a Riva128.
All the other games he mentioned do not require such a fast machine and will run fine. (maybe with some slowdowns)
For comfortability I would check if throttle works using hardware power saving mechanisms.

I did try 3 x 256 but it simply ignored the rest!?!?

You must've used high-density memory, the BX requires low density. I'm betting the 256MB modules you used only had chips on one side?

But really, 256MB is fine for a Win9x machine. Hell, even 128MB works decently enough. And the only real difference between the BX and ZX is that the ZX only supports two banks of memory... other than that, they should work identically.

As for the sound card, Isteer clear of any PCI cards if you want to run DOS games. There are some that have OK DOS support, but it's less trouble just to use a decent ISA card instead. I'd just use one of the ISA SBPro clones, like a Yamaha YMF-71x or ESS 1688/1868. They can be had dirt cheap, and they'll work with pretty much any game. Get one with a wavetable header so you can add the XR385 (DB60XG clone) daughterboard. I don't really see much need for an MT-32 in that system, that's really only necessary for games from the '80s/early '90s, whereas you seem to be focusing on mid-late '90s games, which will all have General MIDI support.

A Voodoo3 is normally a good choice of graphics card, but it might be a little slow for some of the newer games like NFS:Porsche. A decent alternative might be a Geforce4 MX440 paired with a Voodoo2. The MX440 performs similarly to a Geforce2, but generally offers better image quality.

As for the CPU, I'd probably go for a faster PIII, the fastest one you can find. None of the games you mentioned have any problems with faster CPUs, and the extra horsepower would be nice for some of the newer games. Unfortunately your boards are limited to 100mhz FSB, and higher clocked 100FSB PIIIs are hard to find, especially in Slot1 form, but you could always get a slotket and use a 900mhz or 1ghz Coppermine Celeron... those chips are pretty common.

chinny22 wrote:

Arg I forgot the sound cards!
I’m thinking of a SB Live 5.1 as I seem to remember NFS supported Dolby and would like to give that a try. SB Live also emulates SB16 in Dos which I gather is the best sound card for dos?

HELL NO! That's one of the worst sound cards to use under DOS as it uses a really poor software-emulated YMF262 that in some games will really hurt your ears(and stutters on slower computers). Get a SoundBlaster 16 or AWE32 with a YMF262 or CT1747 chip on it for DOS games(PLEASE do not get a SoundBlaster AWE64 - lately, I've seen several people going for that sound card in their computer setups without AT LEAST adding a card with true OPL3 and I'm sick of it) or even a Yamaha sound card, be it ISA or PCI.

A Voodoo 3 runs NFS High Stakes and Porsche Unleashed fine. Cpu wise though you will want to try to go for something past the 550mhz range for those games. Honestly I am surprised at the hate on the Awe64. I have both the 16, Vibra, Awe32, and Awe64, and I'd easily take the 64 over the others if I had to choose only one. The audio is a lot less noisy, and I have not really ran into any issues so far with any games that wont work on it, and it works well in Windows also. The Gus would be a sweet card to have on the side, but the going price will make you cringe.

EDIT: Think I should have clarified more on the above concerning the Awe64 thing. The system I use a Awe64 in, the only DOS titles I run on it are later ones that can actually use the Awe mainly, like Primal Rage, Doom II, Duke Nukem, Screamers, etc. Basically the Dos stuff from the mid 1990's.

Games from prior to that that do not utilize the Awe 64 at all, or are just suited better on Pentium 1 era cpus, I run on two other systems. One that uses Aztech sound galaxy pro 16 II, and another that uses a Awe 32. Really there is no end all be all system unless you have a ton of ISA slots and care to cram it full of different sound cards, and a option on the board to disable cpu cache. If you want to cover the most range of games, you will find yourself probably wanting 2-3 different machines to handle different time periods otherwise.

Ok thanks for all that everyone

After reading more research I’m leaning towards the Gforce 4 / Voodoo 2 config suggested by Old Thrashbarg. Mostly because I’m guessing NFS would benefit from the Gforces’ better handling of 32 bit colour?

That raises a question however, how do you usually tell games which card to use? Is it simply setting the Voodoo as primary so Dos only uses this and telling windows which to use as I think I remember most games let you select a display device, NFS defiantly does. Or do I have to disable cards in bios depending on which games I use?
Not that it’s a drama but just means a bit more messing around (all part of the retro fun!)

For Midi I’ll go with Dant suggested and others confirmed and most likely get the NEC XR385 daughterboard. I would have preferred a Roland SCD-15 after to listening on youtube but for the price and availability the NEC wins.

So for sound another question I’m afraid! I’m thinking AWE 32 but the hanging note issue, is that when you exit a game a note continues to play, or is actually something during gameplay?
How much does dos games (Doom, Duke3d, etc) take advantage of the awe effects?
Will I notice a difference between an AWE32 + XR385 and a SB16 + XR385? Apart from drivers taking up memory that is

Thanks all again!

I for one remain convinced that MIDI music really isn't ever going to sound particularly good, and even if there's some fancy exotic hardware that does make it sound better, is it really all that likely that the composer was targeting fancy exotic hardware used by only a handful of people when he was composing the music?

Anyway, the Voodoo2 is a 3D-only card and will only activate for 3D games. Games that support Glide automatically use the Voodoo2. It can also do Direct3D; in some cases you can switch from one card to another for Direct3D using a utility such as 3D Control Center, and if not everything will probably use the GeForce 4 anyway.

Some people can't stand the AWE32 WAV reverb effects; it seems to be a matter of personal preference.

I have a friend who ran into issues once using a AIW 8500 and a Voodoo 2 sli set. Later dx 8 games that did not have a display option to choose which gpu to use were defaulting to the Voodoo 2 cards instead of the Radeon.

I speculate that it depends on the version of DirectX the game is trying to use and the version of DirectX supported by whatever drivers are installed for the Voodoo2 and the other video card.

D3D HAL override hell

Geforces are worst for that

While I admit midi can’t compare with music in later games (I was blown away by mechanical man in C&C, a song with speech!) there is something special about midi I would have said it’s the nostalgia off all those hours listening to it but I remember enjoying it even back then. Decent, Terminal Velocity 2 games I didn’t really enjoy but the music was good!

Well I took the plunge! Found a Voodoo card, not that many around it seems! Plus it’s a Diamond Monster 3D! £20 from an online shop so probably a little pricy? But the only other I found was a Creative card for action on ebay poor thing hasn’t had any bids yet so still sitting on .99 but personally decided to go for the top branded card of the day. Besides £20 is what it cast for a meal with the missus, this way I’ll be to busy to want go out for dinner

Just to offer some closure, finally installed the Voodoo2 card in my currant P4 Win98 box and checked out few of the games that were already installed. Have to admit don’t notice any difference in Diablo 2 but NFS 3 and 4 is darn nice! Everything seems so clearer!

Running 800x600 with everything on max settings does seem to struggle when a lot is going on in NFS4 but this may be the game as I remember the same thing happening in my P2 400 Gforce 2 MMX system back in the day. It’s also not quite centred cutting off the right side of the screen.
I’m only using the 30202 reference drivers (just to see what the official drivers are like) with everything on default. I’m sure once I fine tune the thing probably with newer fastvoodoo drivers it’ll be more happy.

I’ve got an 2 sound card heading my way a an Audigy 2 ZS which hopefully fit in my little small form factor Compaq & that’ll do as a nice as a short term Win98 PC till I go back to Oz
Also got a AWE32 which I defiantly can’t play with till I’m back in Oz 🙁

Voodoo2 in a P4?

COOL THAT THING

@chinny22:

What model Compaq? I have a Despro EN (photos of which are in my most recent post in the Reto Rig Photo Thread) and as of a few days ago, it has an Audigy 2ZS which fit fine in the machine. In fact, it's about as long as the card can be without there being any trouble installing the thing.

You will not want to use the Audigy if you plan on DOS gaming. The card's useless for that. However, for anything within Windows, the Audigy series is definitely top of the line. Audio output is good and it does a bit of processing itself saving the CPU some overhead. For DOS support, it would seem the Ensoniq/Creative AudioPCI are highly regarded.

leileilol wrote:

Voodoo2 in a P4?
COOL THAT THING

What do you mean exactly? You can place voodoo 2/1 in just any computer that have free PCI slots. I have both Voodoo1 and 2 in a Phenom 4cores machine.

robertmo wrote:

leileilol wrote:

Voodoo2 in a P4?
COOL THAT THING

What do you mean exactly? You can place voodoo 2/1 in just any computer that have free PCI slots. I have both Voodoo1 and 2 in a Phenom 4cores machine.

leileilol is referring to how voodoo cards have a tendency to overheat in newer systems, sometimes causing permanent damage. 🤣

Saw your Deskpro, still got 1 or 2 of them myself back in Oz also with the idea of turning it into a multimedia box next to the TV. Think mine's lower spec though. I know it only uses SD RAM.

“The twins” are a pair of Evo 510’s you can see them in the Pics of your computing area thread.

I think P4 is the ultimate Win9x machine!
My 2.4 CPU is one of the last non HT CPU’s so Win9x is as fast as that OS will go "out of the box" plus is more then enough for games that don’t like XP.
Its just a shame I’ve only got 2 PCI slots as I’d like a SLI config eventually and not a fan of the 1/2 height AGP slot.(currently only using the onboard intel video, not so bad but no so good)
As it is the bottom of the HDD almost touches the top of the Voodoo. The HDD’s power kind of makes sure the 2 never touch but bit close for my liking. The Audigy should be shorter but will be the same height as the HDD.