All in one PC? I doubt you can do it... P3 or P4 lacks the punch to run Windows 7. You'll have memory issues with the earlier operating system if you have a good amount for Win7.
Then you'll have graphic card choices. What's good for Win7 will probably suck in MS-DOS. Remember, even if you have a huge number of expansion slots, they are still limited and you are still restricted to put everything working in harmony...

I have been trying for a while to put all eggs in one basket and i can tell you it has been nuts.

Obrigado pela resposta, sprcorreia.

I currently have the rig setup with an Athlon XP 2500+ and an NVidia 5500FX. Windows 7 works decently, though I'm not planning on using it much for newer intensive games. The option is just there if Win98/WinXP can't handle a game/app due to some software requirement.

I could also upgrade up to an NVidia 6800 Ultra, as that is the best graphics card with Win9x drivers available. I prototyped with svgalib in Linux and with the 5500FX, and the major DOS graphic modes like 320x200x256 VGA and the most notable VESA ones were coming out fine. I haven't yet tried with DOS games natively. Is there a handful of titles anyone would recommend for testing purposes?

Edit: Forgot to mention that the memory issues for Win98SE were handled by reconfiguring some system files (the system has 2GB of RAM). I haven't yet tested on Win95 or WinME. And I know how nuts it can be. I have been trying to get the partitioning stuff right for multi-booting for some years now, and I believe I finally got it down.

That's quite easy to be honest. Windows XP, Windows XP, Windows XP. 10+ years of compatibility right there. DOSBox takes care of most DOS games and you have 15+ years of gaming compatibility.

running native as in - no dos box or emu? Thats tough. You would definately run windows xp. Maybe a pentium 3 of sorts.. Did xp not last the longest between windows os upgrades? I would say GENERALLY a new ì7 based pc would have the widest spectrum of gaming with programs like exult, scummvm,dosbox.gens,project64,snes9x,mame,finalburn. Aswell as terabytes of room to manage the isos.

Thanks Mau1wurf1977 and rgart for the replies.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

That's quite easy to be honest. Windows XP, Windows XP, Windows XP. 10+ years of compatibility right there. DOSBox takes care of most DOS games and you have 15+ years of gaming compatibility.

Yes, Windows XP is definitely the most compatible OS available. To test a broader number of titles natively on the metal that are incompatible with Windows XP, I can multiboot to other OSes. The OS is not the issue I'm trying to resolve here. I'm sorry for not being clear enough in my question.

rgart wrote:

running native as in - no dos box or emu? Thats tough.

Yes, that is basically it. No dosbox or emulation if at all possible. I'm developing a retro game and I'd like to test it natively on as many old PC OS platforms as possible (I have a multi-port development fetish), and I only have one active workspace to test it on. The emulator(s) could be getting the wrong result. Besides testing the game I'm developing, I'd also like to natively compare it with some select games of the respective comparable era. The broadest spectrum would offer me more options for native comparison on one machine.

rgart wrote:

Maybe a pentium 3 of sorts..

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to narrow down. A Pentium 3 to get ISA cards, or a little more kick with a next generation CPU. I have found some new industrial motherboards that to this day still have ISA and PCI slots with current generation CPUs, but they are hard to find (and expensive). So a Pentium 4 with ISA should also be possible, though not redundant efficient (used market-wise) in case it fails and I need a replacement. I could also wait for local 3D printing production to be able to print out year ~2000 high precision technology replicas, but I might already be in my senior years when that happens.

rgart wrote:

Did xp not last the longest between windows os upgrades? I would say GENERALLY a new ì7 based pc would have the widest spectrum of gaming with programs like exult, scummvm,dosbox.gens,project64,snes9x,mame,finalburn. Aswell as terabytes of room to manage the isos.

For a one purpose machine with excellent emulation capabilities, that would be the pick. In terms of disc space, the Athlon motherboard I have has 2 SATA channels (there are motherboards with 4 channels), and there are always PCI SATA expansion cards to place on Pentium 3 generation motherboards.

My purpose is not to have all games available at a click of the mouse, so space is not a requirement. The option to test on a varied number of platforms natively is the priority.

[EDIT] I realise this question is not in the typical Vogons game playing focus discussion, being in reality more from a development/testing perspective. However, I do believe that with a slight perspective shift, the knowledge drawn from this community would be the most valuable on the internet for this kind of question, basing this opinion on what I've read from other threads.

Here's an update, as I have practically made up my mind about this topic. I'll go with the Athlon XP as the main retro PC multi-boot build and keep the Pentium 3 build as a fallback for natively running DOS games and Apps that use sound capabilities, if ever required.

The choice I'm making is based on audio constraints. Please let me know if I'm not making a sound choice (pun unintended).

I have a Sound Blaster Live! (which is PCI) for the AthlonXP build, and from several reports, it is a bitch to set up for DOS, with some games working and others not. An ISA card like the AWE64 I have on the Pentium 3 build, is reported to get by with most DOS games.

So this means I'll be putting my priorities on setting up the AthlonXP build for some DOS games that might work natively with the Live!. If they don't work properly after fifteen minutes of tinkering, they'll get the DOSbox treatment. In dire cases when I really need a true native treatment for a DOS game, the Pentium 3 build will be used. Seems like I'm going to keep the KVM switch connected after all.

Here are the specs for anyone in the future going through a similar project.

== Athlon XP Build ==
- Athlon XP 2500+ (Upgrade plan to 3200+)
- Asrock K7VT4A Pro Motherboard (Upgrade plan to DFI Lan Party Ultra B)
- Thermaltake V9 Black Edition ATX Mid-tower case
- Zalman ZM-MFC1 6 Fan Manual Control Panel.
- 2GB DDR400 RAM (Upgrade plan to 3GB on DFI motherboard)
- NVidia GeForce 5500FX (Upgrade plan to NVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra)
- Sound Blaster Live! with Live! Drive
- 2x 3Dfx Voodoo 2 (connected via SLI cable)
- 4 Hard Drives (3 IDE + 1 SATA) from 60GB to 320GB (magnetic spinning at the moment, upgrade plan to SSD/CF drives as capacity improves, prices fall and drives fail)
- 1 DVD+RW Drive (IDE)
- Two Floppy Drives (for playing with the Amiga floppy copying mechanism)
- Added a Network card and Video Capture card to keep all the PCI slots comfy and check if there are any request conflicts, though they are not crucial for the build;
- OSes (currently working): DOS 6.22 + Windows 98 SE, DOS 7.10 Unofficial Pack, Windows XP, Windows 7 and Gentoo Linux with SVGAlib working. (Upgrade plan for additional OSes by multi-booting, BSDs, other DOS brands, and alternate less known OSes like AROS, Haiku, Kolibri/Menuet).

== Pentium 3 Build ==
- Pentium 3 733MHz (I think), FSB 133MHz
- Asus MB (don't remember the model reference)
- 320MB RAM (I think)
- Creative Labs DXR3
- AWE64 Standard (1MB)
- 15GB Hard Drive
- DVD Playback with CD+RW recording Drive
- Floppy Drive

I'd just like to add that Mau1wurf1977's "Roland MT-32: The Ultimate Tutorial" has been an inspiration to find out more about audio hardware compatibility in the late eighties/early nineties. Good thing you keep it in your signature, Mau1wurf1977. And I'm only 24 minutes in; I've been pausing every two to three minutes to do some tangent research which eventually led me to this train of thought. A little more than three more hours to go, let me see where it leads... And no, I will not be getting an MT-32 (old) and/or subsequent modules with all their nuances. I'll stick to MT-32 emulation and recordings, thank you very much 😀.

EDIT: Added Thermaltake V9 Black Edition case to the list.
EDIT2: Added upgrade plan.

Hi there,

I'm a newbie to the forum.

& I hope you don't think I'm hi-jacking your thread, but I've just finished building a system based on a Pentium 3 733Mhz which dual boots dos 6.22 with Windows XP

Motherboard is QDI Advance 10T, Socket 370
256MB PC133 ram,
SA sound card (yamaha opl-sax3)
PCI network card (intel pro/100)
GeForce 3 Ti gfx card

Inside the PC itself: http://sgp.tolon.co.uk/images/ebay/DSCF1783.jpg
my mem stats in dos: http://sgp.tolon.co.uk/images/ebay/DSCF1789.jpg
(with cd, mouse, and all other necessary drivers loaded!)

The PC has a network card, so you can boot it up to XP, download abandonware / freeware PC games and unzip them to your FAT partition for DOS to use. etc.
e.g http://sgp.tolon.co.uk/images/ebay/DSCF1753.jpg

Some of the best dos-based throttling software can be used on this system too (by which I mean, one I've found which seems to work for everything to me.) - for the pickiest of games. but 99% work without it.

SO....MY OPINION! 😀
-----------------------

- So i have a little bit of experience in multi-boot dos boxes. Personally, I'd actually go with having an ISA slot for a proper hardware soundcard, but that's just me. 😀

Even though my dos box is only running a pentium 3 733Mhz with 256MB ram, XP is actually fast enough for my needs. To be able to use software / apps more comfortably, upgrade to a tualatin capable P3 mobo with ISA slot (the Advance 10T is a good example of this.) - and you have a fairly powerful system which can dual boot xp / dos 6.22, run xp and software quickly / comfortably, and have an ISA slot for a SB16 / Awe 64 / or whatever for hardware audio.

SGP wrote:

Hi there,

I'm a newbie to the forum.

Welcome to the forums, SGP.

SGP wrote:

& I hope you don't think I'm hi-jacking your thread

Not at all 😀.

SGP wrote:

- So i have a little bit of experience in multi-boot dos boxes. Personally, I'd actually go with having an ISA slot for a proper hardware soundcard, but that's just me. 😀

Even though my dos box is only running a pentium 3 733Mhz with 256MB ram, XP is actually fast enough for my needs. To be able to use software / apps more comfortably, upgrade to a tualatin capable P3 mobo with ISA slot (the Advance 10T is a good example of this.) - and you have a fairly powerful system which can dual boot xp / dos 6.22, run xp and software quickly / comfortably, and have an ISA slot for a SB16 / Awe 64 / or whatever for hardware audio.

It is a nice rig and thanks for these valuable points.

Currently from my sound vantage point, I am limited to headphones and I was not blessed/cursed with audiophile sensitivity to distinguish the difference. For other people, I'll take the HiFi standpoint into consideration (something I believe you mentioned before editing the post).

PedroPalhoto wrote:

Welcome to the forums, SGP.

Thank you! 😀

PedroPalhoto wrote:

Currently from my sound vantage point, I am limited to headphones and I was not blessed/cursed with audiophile sensitivity to distinguish the difference. For other people, I'll take the HiFi standpoint into consideration (something I believe you mentioned before editing the post).

hehe, yes, it did say that. I was trying to make the post a little more compact...but probably failed. 😀

I must admit I quite enjoy having my dos box (and other pcs) hooked up to my hi-fi. Turning it on...

Loading up some fantastic games that utilize MIDI/Adlib like Frontier Elite 2s intro, or sounds of UFO : Enemy Unknown, music of TFX /rant rant

- But yes, if you're not obsessed with getting the sound just right, then bearing in mind the cost of (not the processor, but the motherboard) for a tualatin core P3, which are quite rare / hard to find motherboards, and getting one with ISA - then it's really not worth the excessive cost, you might as well just use your more powerful athlon xp system and forget about ISA and save a lot of money in the process yes.

Tualatin compatible P3 motherboards, Much like Pentium 4 motherboards with ISA slots (only one or two socket 478 P4 motherboards exist with ISA), go for a fair bit of money usually due to scarcity.

SGP wrote:

But yes, if you're not obsessed with getting the sound just right, then bearing in mind the cost of (not the processor, but the motherboard) for a tualatin core P3, which are quite rare / hard to find motherboards, and getting one with ISA - then it's really not worth the excessive cost, you might as well just use your more powerful athlon xp system and forget about ISA and save a lot of money in the process yes.

Tualatin compatible P3 motherboards, Much like Pentium 4 motherboards with ISA slots (only one or two socket 478 P4 motherboards exist with ISA), go for a fair bit of money usually due to scarcity.

Yes, that is a major point to take into consideration. Purchasing something expensive is not really an issue if it is durable, like a good case. What I mean is that if a rare motherboard fails, replacing it will possibly be even more expensive in the future due to increased scarcity. I have had a history with three common motherboards going off to the scrap heap, so I tend not to rely on them. On my list, motherboards come second to spinning hard drives on hardware that fails easily.

Huh, this is totally off topic but the world is indeed a small place.

Never thought i would find a vogons user that is also a close neighbour.

carlostex wrote:

Huh, this is totally off topic but the world is indeed a small place.

Never thought i would find a vogons user that is also a close neighbour.

I also had that idea some years ago, yet lately I've been finding a handful of neighbors with similar interests in the metro South Lisbon area (Amiga and general retrogaming besides DOS games). If you're up for it, we could organize some sort of meetup or trade event in the area. With the right outreach, possibly a dozen or more people would show up. Better switch to PM or start another thread on vogons or somewhere else if you are interested.

Going with an Abit KT7A motherboard, would allow you to run an Athlon or even Athlon XP CPU, while giving you one ISA slot for an older model sound card. This is probably the fastest CPU/motherboard combination I can think of that would allow for native ISA sound for DOS compatability, while also offering some performance to run a more modern OS like XP. I wouldn't go any higher on the OS ladder without a dual core CPU, and then you would most likely have to say bye bye to the ISA port.

Quick look at that mainboard running SD-RAM.

What I would get is a socket 478 based board and they look to be limited to a 400mhz fsb cpu so theoretically up to a 2.8-3.2ghz cpu(3's or 3.2s are hard to find according to some article I just read).

CPU 2.8ghz Pentium 4 socket 478
Memory: 2GIG

I was debating whether to go this kind of setup or the tualatin route before settling on the tualatin, I might even try a P4 for the hell of it.