VOGONS


First post, by samaron

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Hi!

I'm new here, and hopefully will get some advice on how to improve my build. The goal is to build a powerful gaming computer, but still be versatile for other purposes. I do enjoy demo scene stuff, tracker music, or just simply tinkering around with old software.

This build was done mostly with parts I already had. Most parts where bought 15ish years ago. What I bought now for the occasion were the Gravis Ultrasound card and an extra Voodoo2 card identical to the one bought "back in the day."

The specs on my computer are the following:
CPU: AMD K6 200MHz MMX
Motherboard: Unknown, probably aOpen. Intel 430TX chipset.
Memory: 256mb PC133 SDRAM
Soundcard: Gravis Ultrasound MAX rev1.8 (1024kb memory)
Soundcard: Creative Soundblaster AWE64 Gold
Display video card: ATi 3D rage II+ DVD 4mb
3D accelerator: 2x Creative 3Dfx Voodoo2 8mb cards in SLI
Network adapter: 3com EtherLink XL PCI 3C900B-TPC, 10 Mbps signalling rate
1.44mb Floppy Drive
1.2mb secondary floppy drive
Pioneer DVD-ROM
aopen CD/RW-ROM
20gb hard drive

I'm running Windows 98 Second Edition in DOS mode (disabled GUI at start up). I do of course have a startup menu with different selections for different situations. The reason I chose to do this is because I found some programs run better under native DOS, while other run better (or must run) under Windows.

I do have some issues, mainly the sound. AS mentioned, I'm using a GUS card. It is awesome for tracker music and stuff like that, but its compatibility is a bit limited when it comes to games. Some games will run with the Sound Blaster emulator, but some doesn't. Any suggestions on how to improve this? I'm thinking of buying a Roland MT-32, as many games supported it (especially thinking of the old Lucas Arts games). Would this help improve the versatility of my systems when it comes to games? I tried setting up a Sound Blaster AWE64 card parallel with the GUS, but couldn't get that to work properly.

Lastly, some pictures!

Quite cramped inside, but everything fits! Have one available ISA slot left.

20130903_165804_zpsc7aa8312.jpg

The case it self isn't anything spectacular. Just a typical generic white case.

20130903_170441_zps351d1441.jpg
20130903_170600_zps7bb34c7c.jpg

The small boot menu I have. Good enough for now, might add more options later on if needed.

20130903_171145_zps1c107d8d.jpg

The option without drivers for maximum available conventional memory I'm quite happy with. Almost can't get any better.

20130903_171636_zps6bea6033.jpg

And, of couse, SLI detected!

20130903_183223_zpsf41386e6.jpg

Last edited by samaron on 2013-12-19, 16:22. Edited 3 times in total.

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 1 of 74, by Mau1wurf1977

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Very nice!

Regarding sound card. I can recommend the AWE64 Gold in combination with SoftMPU for the MT-32. I would remove the GUS.

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
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Reply 2 of 74, by samaron

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I'll give that a try. I like the GUS very much, the sound it has I feel is nicer than the SB cards I've tried. Guess I'll have to sacrifice it if I'm going to cover most games/programs. Could always stuff it inside one of my other computers. 😀

Regarding the MT-32: I'm not familiar with it. As far as I've understood, the MT-32 it self is an external box. What exactly is needed for that setup? If I'm not wrong, I need the MT-32, a breakout box to have between it and the computer and the ISA card. I've seen there are several different cards, there one called MPU-401 which seem like the most common. Would that card do the job?

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 3 of 74, by bjt

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Nice job. When I asked around a while back, the consensus was that a GUS Max should be OK with a Sound Blaster, as long as you make sure that all port addresses, IRQ and DMAs are different. I have a GUS Classic running alongside an AWE64 Gold which works fine. Admittedly I don't run SBOS/MegaEm etc as I have other hardware for that, but native GUS stuff works fine.

Reply 4 of 74, by chinny22

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A SB card will work in just about any game where GUS or roland devices only come into their own in specific games.
Check out Mau1wurf's MT-32 tutorial in his signatue above, You'll be a pro by the end of it!

One thing I would say if its late dos games your into th Roland MK55 is better suited then the 32 but I think this is also talked about in the video?
Looks like a real good setup got most your options covered i think

Reply 5 of 74, by samaron

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I've now bought a SB AWE64 Gold card on eBay. Hopefully I'll get it next week or so.

Had a look at the video. Looks like the best way would be to buy two modules. I guess the Lucas Arts games don't fall under the category the old MT-32 can handle. I'm not sure which second unit would be best for newer games? I want to play Lucas Arts games and The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall mainly, but want to try out old Sierra games as well.

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 6 of 74, by ProfessorProfessorson

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To be honest the two Voodoo 2 cards are being totally wasted in that system. The current cpu is not really even powerful enough to take advantage of even one of the cards. You should look up info on the motherboard and see if you can at least get a Pentium 233 running in there, if not a higher speed K6-2 or K6-3.

Reply 7 of 74, by rgart

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I think its a good build.

the awe 64 will do well in that system.

maybe ditch one of the voodoos. I dont think you need SLI with a K6 200 CPU

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 8 of 74, by LunarG

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I got a GUS Classic and an SB16 running just fine together in my 486 DOS system.

From AUTOEXEC.BAT:

SET ULTRASND=240,3,3,7,5
SET BLASTER=A220 I10 D1 H5 P330 T6

Should give you an idea of what kind of addresses, interrupts and dma channels to use.
The address for the GUS is probably set using a jumper on the card, at least it is on the classic, and afaik it's the same on the MAX, only the PnP being different.

GUS is as you say great for music and for those games that have good support (some games have support, but it's just not good 😜), but you pretty much need to have a Sound Blaster of some kind for proper dos games support.

The K6 200 is a classic 😀 Used to have one on an Asus TX97-x back in the days. Was a nice piece. It should be possible to run it on 75MHz bus, depending on your motherboard, which gives it a little boost in performance.

WinXP : PIII 1.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 73GB SCSI HDD, Matrox Parhelia, SB Audigy 2.
Win98se : K6-3+ 500MHz, 256MB RAM, 80GB HDD, Matrox Millennium G400 MAX, Voodoo 2, SW1000XG.
DOS6.22 : Intel DX4, 64MB RAM, 1.6GB HDD, Diamond Stealth64 DRAM, GUS 1MB, SB16.

Reply 10 of 74, by samaron

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I know the SLI is overkill in this case. "Buying today what we couldn't afford yesterday." 😉

I'll look into trying to set up two sound cards as soon as I get the SB AWE64 Gold. I want to test out that Roland MIDI interface as well, but looks like the ISA cards are rare. I can find several MT-32s etc, but can't find any ISA cards on eBay? When I can get my hands on it, I'll probably ditch the network card. It isn't really necessary, and the modern network locks out the computer because it uses older protocols that are "unsafe".

I'm unsure which motherboard I have. My father bought this years ago, and he vaguely remember it to be a aOpen motherboard. He always bought the second best thing, so this isn't top of the line. The Voodoo2 card is probably the only thing he has ever bought that's been "the best".

It's been years since I've tinkered with this stuff. Brings back a lot of memories! I've forgotten much about the different hardware that was, and how to configure the system and software. Slowly but steady I'm relearning a lot of things, so hopefully I'll get this running properly soon.

I do collect a lot of computers and game consoles, so part of the goal with this build is to use it as an "interface" towards the other stuff I have. Copy software and games for the Commodore 64, Nintendo Disk System, my 086 PC, Osborne 1 etc.

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 11 of 74, by bjt

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If you just want your games to work with the MT-32, you don't need a dedicated MPU-401 interface card. Most games work with the Sound Blaster and a gameport to midi cable. The rest can be made to work with a program called SoftMPU (see other thread for download Iink).

Reply 12 of 74, by samaron

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Allright, then I could buy a couple of units and get a gameport cable for them. Since the dedicated ISA cards seem a bit hard to find that would be a nice option while I keep an eye out for one.

I bought a K6-2 500MHz CPU on eBay now. Wanted one that have 3D Now, so I'll give that a try.

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 13 of 74, by samaron

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Did a system speed test. You can see the result on the picture below:

K6-PCX_zpscad2c1e6.jpg

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 15 of 74, by horstmueller

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ProfessorProfessorson wrote:

To be honest the two Voodoo 2 cards are being totally wasted in that system.

SLI enables you to use 1024x786 as resolution for some games - on this system without a noticable "loss" of performance compared to 800x600. So I think it is not wasted.

Reply 16 of 74, by samaron

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I'll probably get more use out of them when I get the K6-2 500MHz with 3D Now. 😀

I also bought a Roland MT-32 (old type without headphone jack) from eBay now. Grabbed a DA-15 (gameport) to DIN connector so I can connect it to the Soundblaster card when I get it. I will buy an interface card when it pops up on eBay again to get a more proper setup. I will also buy a Roland CM-32L later as well, since it was recommended along with the MT-32 old.

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 17 of 74, by vetz

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samaron wrote:

I'll probably get more use out of them when I get the K6-2 500MHz with 3D Now. 😀

I also bought a Roland MT-32 (old type without headphone jack) from eBay now. Grabbed a DA-15 (gameport) to DIN connector so I can connect it to the Soundblaster card when I get it. I will buy an interface card when it pops up on eBay again to get a more proper setup. I will also buy a Roland CM-32L later as well, since it was recommended along with the MT-32 old.

Since he is a fellow countryman: Hope you are aware that all of that equipment will run over 200NOK and be subject to 25% VAT and customs handling fee from the post office unless you get a seller which is willing to write gift and/or lower value on the customs declaration. Norwegian customs see right past the "gift" declaration on computer equipment. I've had to provide documentation more times than not when receiving parcels marked gift with a declared value above 200NOK. Just FYI.

Dealing with Norwegian customs when buying hardware & games from all over the world is an art. So far I've only paid VAT twice on everything I've bought and never paid the handling fee.

bjt wrote:

Wow. Is the K6 200 really 20% faster than a P233MMX?

Not in practice when it comes to games.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 18 of 74, by samaron

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Don't worry. I am fully aware of the customs, and the necessary tricks. I've been collecting LaserDisc, old computers and game consoles for a few years now. 😉

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD

Reply 19 of 74, by samaron

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Did a search on eBay, and I noticed a Roland RAP-10 card for sale with a breakout box. Would this card be any good along with the MT-32 and other MIDI devices?

Win7: Intel i7-4960X CPU, ASUS Rampage IV Extreme motherboard, nVidia GeForce GTX780Ti x2, 16gb 1866MHz DDR3 RAM, 120gb SSD OS
Win98SE: AMD K6 200MHz CPU, aOpen motherboard, ATi 3D Rage II, Voodoo2 SLI, GUS MAX 1mb, SB AWE64 Gold, 256mb SDRAM, 20gb HDD