ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

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ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-01 @ 19:43

ATC-S PIII Coppermine Build

Updates

02/08/2014 - Additional Voodoo 2 CT6670 Card, SLi - http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248&p=371353#p371352

07/08/2014 - Creative DVD-ROM - http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248&p=371186#p372349

18/08/2014 - Creative Live Drive installed - http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248#p374389

28/08/2014 - Zip, Voodoo 2 12mb + Msc Updates - http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248#p376248

Background

Hello, back in 1999/2000 I was setting the world on fire with my AMD K6-2 400, it was not until mid 2001 I upgraded to a Athlon Thunderbird with a Geforce 2 GTS Pro. I wanted to create a top end Windows 9x machine, I have and shown a couple of systems on Vogons, those include my IBM Pentium 200 build for Windows 95 and a Pentium 4 XP build.

Games
Quake 2, 3
Unreal
Unreal Tournament '99
Turok 2
Expendable
Jedi Knight
Black & White
The Sims
Need for Speed Porsche Unleashed
Carmageddon 2

The Build

Case
For me the real push for this build was finding the right case. I had previously started building it in a new-ish cheaply black case. However after cutting my hands on it trying to assemble it, it just didn't feel right. The case of choice in 2000-2002 was the CoolerMaster ATC cases. They looked stunning and were marketed as top end.

I managed to find a ATC-S 500 on ebay for £20, however the seller lived over 150 miles away from me. I reluctantly agreed on a shipping price and here it is!
The ATC-S 500 is a slightly different case to your standard ATX. Its smaller, only exposing 2 full drive bays. The PSU is mounted on the side, just above the CPU.

The previous owner bought this off someone who modded the case slightly. You can see below he made a custom frame in the smaller drive bays and pictured later a cutout for a 80mm fan.

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The motherboard tray slides out, making for an easier build.

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The 80mm cutout. I placed a 80mm fan with a black fan guard. Looks pretty much OEM.

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CPU & Motherboard
I picked up a MSi 6309 v1.01 Motherboard which supports a vast range of Coppermine Pentium IIIs. The board came with a very watered down Bios. The splash screen displayed a Packard Bell logo and was using a Custom Easy Bios.
I flashed the Bios to the latest one off MSI's site and was able to access the full Bios. I'm quite impressed by this motherboard...

- Support for ECC memory (1.5Gb total, 3x512mb) @ 133mhz
- CPU FSB up to 160mhz+

My only gripe would be the placement of the PSU Connector, especially with this case! :happy:

The CPU of choice is a Pentium III Coppermine 1Ghz, SL4MF, 133, 256k

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Graphics Card
Creative Geforce 256 Annihilator Pro, DDR
Despite having a short shelf life as the Geforce 2 came out not long after, there is something special about this card.

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Creative 3D Blaster Voodoo 2 12mb CT6670
My first Voodoo 2! Just need to find another.

Image

Sound Card
Creative Sound Blaster Live! CT4760
A fantastic card for its time, still sounds great today. Next month I'll purchase a Live Drive.

Image

Others
Adaptec 2940U2W SCSI Controller
As this is a top end machine I wanted a quick drive where I could store all of my games. The controller is connected to a Seagate Ultra320 10k Drive.

Image

3Com NIC 10/100
Image

The Build
It really is a pleasure building everything up in the removable motherboard tray, no cut hands all night either! :happy:

Image

All fitted, going in!

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My first time consuming job was to try and route the PSU cable around the top of the case leaving room around the CPU and ram. The removable tray made it easier as you can see

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PSU fitted. I managed to route the MB cable at the top, as there was alot of slack, I managed to lose the excess in the space above the PSU. If I need to pop the tray out, there should be enough slack. Now for the time consuming cable tidying...

Image

Getting there...

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My next job was to neatly attach the SCSI cable. I managed to do so by routing down the side of the case, flat. This works perfectly as it just comes to the side of the 80mm case fan meaning no loss of air flow.

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All done!

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Specifications As of 17/09/2014

CPU Pentium III Coppermine 1Ghz, SL4MF, 133, 256k
Motherboard MSI MS-6309 Via133 Pro Motherboard
RAM 512mb Crucial PC133 CAS2 Ram
Primary Graphics Card 64mb 3D Prophet II Geforce 2 GTS Pro @ 200/400 AGP 4x
Secondary Graphics Creative 3D Blaster Voodoo 2 SLi, 2x 12mb CT6670
Sound Card Creative Sound Blaster Live! CT4760
NIC 3Com PCI 10/100 NIC
SCSI Adaptec 2940U2W SCSI Controller
Storage 40Gb Western Digital 7200rpm IDE Hard Drive - Windows ME
300Gb Seagate Cheetah 10k.7 SCSI Hard Drive - Windows 2000 + Storage for Games
Optical Creative DVD5240E 5X DVD-ROM Drive
Optical Iomega ZIP100 Drive (ATAPI)
Extra Creative Live! Drive IR SB0010
PSU Suntek 420w Dual fan PSU

Outstanding, to do

- Fill the lower bay (Floppy or LS120 Drive)

Benchmarks

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Questions to Vogons
- Do you think I should replace the Geforce 256 for a Geforce 2 GTS?
- Any suggestions to add to this epic build?!

Hope you enjoyed reading :)
Last edited by foey on 2014-9-17 @ 21:22, edited 14 times in total.
Cyrix Instead Build, 6x86 166+ | 32mb SD | 4mb S3 Virge DX | Creative AWE64 | Win95
ATC-S PIII Tualatin Win9x Build :- http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby Mau1wurf1977 » 2014-8-01 @ 22:18

Very nice :)

When you are testing you system feel free to compare your results with my findings here: http://youtu.be/09mhPtidhFk

It features the same CPU as yours!

The system is great, the only comments I have is about the chipset. I would go for Intel. And for storage I use an IDE to SATA adapter together with a 32GB capacity limited 2TB drive :)
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby obobskivich » 2014-8-02 @ 03:20

That is a lovely system - and I like the case. I have a no-name case with a similar PSU/board layout, and as long as you don't stuff an over-hot CPU in there, having a PSU with a "bottom" fan is usually enough to keep everything running nicely. Which, IMO, can simplify the build quite a bit. The only downside is you probably can't stick a massively big CPU heatsink in there, but a P3 shouldn't need such a thing. On the aftermarket cutout for the 80mm fan, if the edge is relatively raw you can get c-channel and put it in there to make it safer and it will still look fairly neat.

To your questions:

1) I probably wouldn't. I'm not all that familiar with the S3 Savage4, but Wikipedia says it's inferior to the TNT2 or Rage 128 - the GeForce256 is faster than those. I'm also more inclined to stick with nVidia/GeForce cards because of their very wide driver support options.

2) GeForce 2 or GeForce 3 sounds more "right" for a P3 build imho, but it really comes down to what you need to do. I probably would pass right over a GTS/Ultra having said that, and either go for a GeForce 3 or a GeForce 4 MX (or something higher than those) - the 4MX will have LMA and other optimizations that will improve it over the GF2 series, and the GF3 (and later) will have pixel shader support (which unlocks games, features, etc). GeForce 3 Ti 200 shouldn't be terribly expensive, for example. If you wanted to go with something even faster, GeForce 4 Ti or a mid-range (or above) GeForce FX could be a nice option too, depending on what you need it to run and at what resolution.

3) As far as other suggestions, a few things come to mind (none are "necessary" - just some random ideas I had):

- You could switch up to an Audigy series card and gain 6.1 or 7.1 output, and 1394 support.
- You could put a Matrox Parhelia in there and have triple-head gaming if you have the desk space and monitors.
- Windows XP
- Light-up fans or other lights (I remember many "high end" computers from this era tended to light up like the fourth of the July)

Again, very nice build from a very nice era (imho) of computing. :happy:
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby PcBytes » 2014-8-02 @ 18:56

I wonder if a Prescott P4 would survive in that case. Most likely not :lol:
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-02 @ 19:09

02/08/2014 - Update

My other Creative Voodoo 2 CT6670 arrived the other day, some of you may of seen my thred in Marvin. I can now sleep at night knowing all of my PCI slots are full! Now to the drive bays :happy:

The trouble is, even thought its labled up as the exact same card, Creative CT6670 it is a 8mb card - missing the RAM from the rear of the card. I decided to SLi anyway.

I put the 8mb as the master card, at the top and the 12mb below. Windows picked up both cards without any issues and seems to be running them as two 8mb cards.

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You can see below, the 12mb card on its own, gets a slightly higher 3Dmark score.

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I've tried a number of other glide games, such as Unreal, Turok 2 and all run fantastically. The Sli makes a big difference. I'll keep my eye out for another Creative 12mb card, but not that fussed.
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-02 @ 19:17

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:Very nice :)

When you are testing you system feel free to compare your results with my findings here: http://youtu.be/09mhPtidhFk

It features the same CPU as yours!

The system is great, the only comments I have is about the chipset. I would go for Intel. And for storage I use an IDE to SATA adapter together with a 32GB capacity limited 2TB drive :)


Thanks again for putting time into your detailed project. It was a interesting read and helped me ensure I was on the right track with benchmarks for my Voodoos. :happy:

obobskivich wrote:
To your questions:

1) I probably wouldn't. I'm not all that familiar with the S3 Savage4, but Wikipedia says it's inferior to the TNT2 or Rage 128 - the GeForce256 is faster than those. I'm also more inclined to stick with nVidia/GeForce cards because of their very wide driver support options.

2) GeForce 2 or GeForce 3 sounds more "right" for a P3 build imho, but it really comes down to what you need to do. I probably would pass right over a GTS/Ultra having said that, and either go for a GeForce 3 or a GeForce 4 MX (or something higher than those) - the 4MX will have LMA and other optimizations that will improve it over the GF2 series, and the GF3 (and later) will have pixel shader support (which unlocks games, features, etc). GeForce 3 Ti 200 shouldn't be terribly expensive, for example. If you wanted to go with something even faster, GeForce 4 Ti or a mid-range (or above) GeForce FX could be a nice option too, depending on what you need it to run and at what resolution.

3) As far as other suggestions, a few things come to mind (none are "necessary" - just some random ideas I had):

- You could switch up to an Audigy series card and gain 6.1 or 7.1 output, and 1394 support.
- You could put a Matrox Parhelia in there and have triple-head gaming if you have the desk space and monitors.
- Windows XP
- Light-up fans or other lights (I remember many "high end" computers from this era tended to light up like the fourth of the July)

Again, very nice build from a very nice era (imho) of computing. :happy:


Thanks :happy:

The Savage is a terrible directX card, much slower than the Geforce, however I was leaving most of the 3D work to the Voodoos and was just thinking of 2D and image quality. Although having the Geforce in there gives me more options. I agree, a Geforce 2 would be more fitting. Geforce 3 possibly, but I wanted to keep the build true to the time frame.

I'm assuming the customised blank/cover in the front lower drive bays is for a small LCD screen, I suppose I could look into something here, as case modding was starting to get popular.

PcBytes wrote:I wonder if a Prescott P4 would survive in that case. Most likely not :lol:


lol - can you imagine :exclamation:

There is a small 60mm fan just above the CPU and a vent on top. This is to extract away some of the CPU heat, however the fan is not overly powerful.
Cyrix Instead Build, 6x86 166+ | 32mb SD | 4mb S3 Virge DX | Creative AWE64 | Win95
ATC-S PIII Tualatin Win9x Build :- http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby obobskivich » 2014-8-03 @ 19:03

foey wrote:Thanks :happy:

The Savage is a terrible directX card, much slower than the Geforce, however I was leaving most of the 3D work to the Voodoos and was just thinking of 2D and image quality. Although having the Geforce in there gives me more options. I agree, a Geforce 2 would be more fitting. Geforce 3 possibly, but I wanted to keep the build true to the time frame.


I'd probably leave the 256 then - honestly unless it does the "wavy lines" thing that some GF2 Ultras do, I doubt there's going to be much difference between it and the Savage, especially since both of them would be passing through the Voodoo2s (IME I can't personally tell much (if any) difference between the straight VGA output from my WildcatVP or the VP -> V2 combo, but reportedly the V2 degrades the signal, especially at very high resolutions (which my monitors don't support)). And having the DX options seems to be a good idea given the era of the system - for example I don't think The Sims will work with the Voodoo cards, but will work with the GeForce. I don't know how the Savage would fare there though. :blush:

I'm assuming the customised blank/cover in the front lower drive bays is for a small LCD screen, I suppose I could look into something here, as case modding was starting to get popular.


Most likely the case. You shouldn't have much trouble finding some sort of device to fill the void.

lol - can you imagine :exclamation:

There is a small 60mm fan just above the CPU and a vent on top. This is to extract away some of the CPU heat, however the fan is not overly powerful.


In my case with the similar layout (no rear exhaust, no top exhaust, just the over-the-CPU PSU and a front 80mm intake), it had no issues with a P4 Willamette (~75W TDP) and Radeon 9700Pro as long as the front intake was hooked up - things got a little warm if it sat and ran games for hours, but nothing died in there. The P4 and motherboard still work (it's in another case/system now), the 9700 was in storage for a while and when I pulled it out a year or so ago to test it was dead, so I recycled it. Go figure. :lol:

I was using a Thermaltake PSU that has a "bottom" fan as well as a rear fan, so it acted as an exhaust sitting almost directly over-top of the CPU. I never remember it putting out exceedingly hot exhaust at the back, or the case itself getting ridiculously warm while running. Certainly not the most perfect design for a high TDP CPU/GPU combo, but it did work. I think a P3 is probably more appropriate for such a case though.
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby Robin4 » 2014-8-04 @ 02:26

Nice system build over there..
~ At least it can do black and white~
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-07 @ 18:42

07/08/2013 - Update

Received my replacement DVD-ROM Drive today. I bought a period correct Creative DVD 5x drive, from 1999. It will go well once I get the Creative Live Drive.

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I also removed the custom drive blank and replaced with the standard blanking panels, I hope to put drives in these but one step at a time, otherwise the wife will find out :happy:

I also volt modded the side 80mm case case, its now running at 7v, much quieter.

Just a quick photo of the setup so far, its connected to a 15" LCD, Native Res is 1024x768. Mouse and keyboard are spares I have to hand, I have the older ones up in the loft. Just a sample of the games I'm playing through at the moment.

Completed the single player of Quake III which runs on the Geforce 256 1024x768, 32bit colour, full details @ 69fps (Timedemo)
Currently playing through Quake II on the Voodoo SLI's @ 1024x768.

Image

Hope you like the period correct wallpaper :)
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby joacim » 2014-8-07 @ 20:06

You're doing the same thing that I'm in the process of doing for myself, and I was actually looking at the same exact case on ebay. I'm currently waiting for a similar GeForce 256 DDR and a CT6670 (advertised as 8MB, but picture looks like a 12MB), and I already have the motherboard and coppermine. I don't have a nice case for my system tho. I don't have a period correct wallpaper, but it is from digital blasphemy also. =)

Been thinking about buying a Voodoo3 3000 too, but I've decided to wait since I feel like I've been spending way too much on computer parts recently, and I need to finish up my contemporary computer too.

Your system is pretty sweet. That ATC-S makes a huge difference.
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby idspispopd » 2014-8-07 @ 22:44

foey wrote:- I have a 32mb Diamond S3 Savage Stealth 540 card, do you think I should replace the geforce with this or look into getting a Geforce 2 GTS?

IMO the only point of using a Savage card would be S3 MeTaL support. If you want to see how Unreal engine games look/play using MeTaL instead of Glide this might be an interesting option.

Just wondering: Why are you playing Quake II on the Voodoos instead the Geforce?
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby TwOne » 2014-8-08 @ 08:13

I LOVE that case. It looks light, and the motherboard slide out tray is just brilliant. If only modern cases had that.
I got a rig that is slightly newer in hardware, but the results can easily be compared. Might put my Voodoo2 in mine...
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-11 @ 09:03

joacim wrote:You're doing the same thing that I'm in the process of doing for myself, and I was actually looking at the same exact case on ebay. I'm currently waiting for a similar GeForce 256 DDR and a CT6670 (advertised as 8MB, but picture looks like a 12MB), and I already have the motherboard and coppermine. I don't have a nice case for my system tho. I don't have a period correct wallpaper, but it is from digital blasphemy also. =)

Been thinking about buying a Voodoo3 3000 too, but I've decided to wait since I feel like I've been spending way too much on computer parts recently, and I need to finish up my contemporary computer too.

Your system is pretty sweet. That ATC-S makes a huge difference.


Thanks :happy:

The case I was originally trying to find was the bigger 201, I looked for sometime and was unable to find one. I missed out on a 200 series a month back but pleased I went for the ATC-S. I don't think I needed anything bigger.

Whats the spec of your machine? Make sure you get it posted!

idspispopd wrote:
foey wrote:- I have a 32mb Diamond S3 Savage Stealth 540 card, do you think I should replace the geforce with this or look into getting a Geforce 2 GTS?

IMO the only point of using a Savage card would be S3 MeTaL support. If you want to see how Unreal engine games look/play using MeTaL instead of Glide this might be an interesting option.

Just wondering: Why are you playing Quake II on the Voodoos instead the Geforce?


Yeah I've had a little play with the metal stuff, its pretty impressive. I was impressed with the Image quality of the card. Just a shame it really sucks at directX... oh and running anything quickly :lol:

I'm running Quake II on the Voodoos just for nostalgia purposes really. Also when switching to the Geforce everything looks very dark, I know I can turn up the brightness but its just not the same :happy:

TwOne wrote:I LOVE that case. It looks light, and the motherboard slide out tray is just brilliant. If only modern cases had that.
I got a rig that is slightly newer in hardware, but the results can easily be compared. Might put my Voodoo2 in mine...


The case is very light! When I received the package through the post I was wondering if the case was in there! Whats your specifications?
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby joacim » 2014-8-11 @ 21:45

foey wrote:Whats the spec of your machine? Make sure you get it posted!


Operating System: Microsoft Windows ME

CPU: Intel Pentium IIIE, 933 MHz (7 x 133)
Motherboard: Asus CUSL2
RAM: 512 MB PC133 SDRAM (128+128+256)

Video Adapter: NVIDIA RIVA TNT2 Pro
3D Accelerator: 3Dfx Voodoo2 12MB (confirmed by driver info)
Monitor: Eizo EV2336W

Audio Adapter: Creative SB Live! (CT4620)

I'm very happy with my Voodoo2. It ended up being the 12MB version, and I didn't notice any quality degradation from the passthrough cable (VGA port saver). I think my GeForce 256 DDR will be here later this week.

Trying to keep this build as 99-00 as possible, but some of the parts are newer. Right now I'm using an 80GB ATA/100 drive and I'm thinking about replacing my current case with a Lian-Li PC7-SCAND from around 2003-2004. The Lian-Li isn't a great case, but it is a lot better than the one my system is currently in.

Been using this computer to play Unreal. =)
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby sgt76 » 2014-8-12 @ 13:58

That case makes all the difference to this build. Its one of the nicest I've ever seen. Good job, and happy gaming!
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coopermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby idspispopd » 2014-8-14 @ 13:04

foey wrote:I'm running Quake II on the Voodoos just for nostalgia purposes really. Also when switching to the Geforce everything looks very dark, I know I can turn up the brightness but its just not the same :happy:

Nostalgia, understood.
And not brightness, you'd need to turn up gamma. 3dfx cards have a high default gamma setting.
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-18 @ 19:13

18/08/2013 - Small Update

My Live Drive arrived this week, just got around to fitting it...

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I bought it off Ebay for £10. Its in almost new condition, no yellowing or scratches at all.

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So Vogons, what should I fill the lower drive bays with? I was thinking of 1.44 floppy and a Zip Drive?
Cyrix Instead Build, 6x86 166+ | 32mb SD | 4mb S3 Virge DX | Creative AWE64 | Win95
ATC-S PIII Tualatin Win9x Build :- http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby bjt » 2014-8-18 @ 20:35

LS-120 Superdisk drive. Make sure you get a Panasonic/Matsushita though.
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby foey » 2014-8-28 @ 21:15

28/08/2014 - Update

Little quiet on the update front, mainly due to I've been enjoying the machine! It's pretty much been on every night either playing games or testing hardware.

I'm currently playing through the following...

Theme Park World
The Sims
Quake II (Quite far through)
Expendable
Ford Racing 2
Unreal Gold
Unreal Tournament

So, the additions...

Iomega ZIP100 Drive (ATAPI)
Not got any Disks yet, but they are on order. I'm going to use them for game saves. I was going to fill the last bay with either, as suggested by bjt, a LS-120 drive (Quite hard to find and pricey) or a standard floppy drive.

Image

Image

Creative 3DFX 12mb Voodoo 2 Card + Live Drive Cable
This was to replace the 8mb card I received. Just noticed the rounded cable is made by MSI, who make the motherboard :lol:

The Creative Live drive came without a cable, so I managed to find a 40pin IDE cable without any pin blocks. I just had to match pin1 each side and it works a treat. The front panel is fantastic as I'm always using headphones.

Image

Image

Image

MSC Graphics Card
It seems I'm hooked at buying graphics cards from 1999-2001 era. This month its a....

Matrox G400 MAX Dual Head AGP Card.
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Very impressed with the image quality of the Matrox, instantly in the Bios the text was clearer than the Geforce. 3DMark 99 looked crisper.

It Scores quite well in 3DMark 99, nothing could touch it's memory bandwidth until the Geforce arrived. However its pretty useless at 3DMark 2000, scoring just 1000 points.

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It will sit with my others for this build...

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Cyrix Instead Build, 6x86 166+ | 32mb SD | 4mb S3 Virge DX | Creative AWE64 | Win95
ATC-S PIII Tualatin Win9x Build :- http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40248
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foey
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Re: ATC-S PIII Coppermine Win9x Build Log [WIP] **Photo Heavy**

Postby chinny22 » 2014-9-01 @ 15:14

Very nice, The 2 Creative devices next to each other is a real nice touch.
For the 2nd 3.5 bay I would finish the look and get a floppy drive. Back then every computer still had a floppy drive. Although lets face it your not going to get much use out of it.
If you want something that IS useful a USB floppy emulator will work exactly the same as far as that PC goes but you can use software to copy files onto the USB floppy on any PC for quick/lazy file transfers
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