NexGen Nx586-P90

Showcase your Retro PC / Build logs.

NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby elianda » 2016-10-25 @ 02:21

I finished? my Nx586 sytem and you can read about it here: http://retronn.de/imports/nexgen_nx586.html

Here is a preview pic:
Image
Now dust off your NexGen systems for some comparison scores :-).
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, HQ Videos.
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2288
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby Brickpad » 2016-10-25 @ 02:57

That is one seriously trippy ribbon cable!
User avatar
Brickpad
Member
 
Posts: 350
Joined: 2014-3-11 @ 03:25
Location: New Hampshire

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby Robert B » 2016-10-25 @ 07:14

Nice system, but the original case was nicer and better looking - IMHO :D

It would mean more work to get the case back in shape but in the end I say it would be worth it.

You could scavenge the insides from better speakers and put them in the original case.

I like the whole configuration. Congrats!

P.S. you have a good webpage there :D with lots of info and pictures.
User avatar
Robert B
Member
 
Posts: 400
Joined: 2016-7-07 @ 15:57

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby oerk » 2016-10-25 @ 07:45

Very nice! It shows that you have put a lot of thought into this rather special system.

It would mean more work to get the case back in shape but in the end I say it would be worth it.


Too late! :cool:

I'm happy to report that the old ASI case is now running a K5, pretty much an exact copy of the system I had in '96/'97 :). I've rebuilt the missing button from acrylic. Internally it was in pretty nice condition anyway. I'm super happy about it, thanks again Michael!
oerk
Oldbie
 
Posts: 631
Joined: 2014-8-20 @ 09:59

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby elianda » 2016-10-25 @ 11:22

Robert B wrote:Nice system, but the original case was nicer and better looking - IMHO :D
It would mean more work to get the case back in shape but in the end I say it would be worth it.
You could scavenge the insides from better speakers and put them in the original case.
I like the whole configuration. Congrats!

P.S. you have a good webpage there :D with lots of info and pictures.


Thanks for the comment. The main problem with internal speakers is that they are useless when the computer is setup at exhibitions. The max. achievable volume of the small speakers is so low, that you basically hear nothing.
Also the threshold of deciding to refurbish an old case when there is a 'good case' available is high. On the other hand the case was not disposed, but oerk used it for a new system.

Yeah into the web page went already quite some work.
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, HQ Videos.
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2288
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby Robert B » 2016-10-25 @ 14:13

oerk wrote:I'm happy to report that the old ASI case is now running a K5, pretty much an exact copy of the system I had in '96/'97 :). I've rebuilt the missing button from acrylic. Internally it was in pretty nice condition anyway. I'm super happy about it, thanks again Michael!


FULL REBUILD/BUILD LOG or it didnt happen :D
User avatar
Robert B
Member
 
Posts: 400
Joined: 2016-7-07 @ 15:57

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby oerk » 2016-10-25 @ 15:00

Robert B wrote:
oerk wrote:I'm happy to report that the old ASI case is now running a K5, pretty much an exact copy of the system I had in '96/'97 :). I've rebuilt the missing button from acrylic. Internally it was in pretty nice condition anyway. I'm super happy about it, thanks again Michael!


FULL REBUILD/BUILD LOG or it didnt happen :D


OK, fine, here it is :D
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=50581

Been meaning to do that anyway...

Not to hijack this thread any further.
oerk
Oldbie
 
Posts: 631
Joined: 2014-8-20 @ 09:59

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby feipoa » 2016-11-06 @ 00:12

Well this is a rare build. Maybe the only NexGen system fully setup on Vogons? I'd really like to see a setup with the Nx586 FPU, which is even rarer.

Did you find that Ensoniq with the daughter card? And why are there so many additional ports on the card? 3x IDE and a floppy?

How did you ensure that the S3 Vision864 2MB runs well with zero wait states? Seems like I always have stability issues on my 486SXL-40 system with ISA graphic cards having 0 WS. I recall only the junky Trident cards working reliably with 0ws.

What would you say this system is equivalent to performance-wise? Intel 486DX4-100?
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 5915
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby elianda » 2016-11-06 @ 01:29

feipoa wrote:Well this is a rare build. Maybe the only NexGen system fully setup on Vogons? I'd really like to see a setup with the Nx586 FPU, which is even rarer.
Did you find that Ensoniq with the daughter card? And why are there so many additional ports on the card? 3x IDE and a floppy?


Yes it is the Elite, so it has the Effect Processor daughter board. The connectors are IDE/Matsushita/Mitsumi/Sony CD-ROM.

How did you ensure that the S3 Vision864 2MB runs well with zero wait states? Seems like I always have stability issues on my 486SXL-40 system with ISA graphic cards having 0 WS. I recall only the junky Trident cards working reliably with 0ws.


I tried basically all VLB graphics cards I own in this system. Here is an overview of the working ones:
Code: Select all
ET4000W32i (VESA 1.0)

3DBench2
1 WS 65.3
2 WS 63.1
3 WS 60.8
4 WS 58.7

1 WS:
PCP VGA 17.5
PCP 101 ?     (no VESA 1.2)

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3719  1810
16  7440  3588
32 14881  7034

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   3719  1809
16  7438  3586
32 14882  7023

2 WS:
PCP VGA 17.4

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3409  1810
16  6818  3587
32 13641  7031

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   3409  1809
16  6818  3584
32 13636  7020
 

ALG2228

3DBench2
50 MHz 60.8     -> 3 WS
33/40 MHz 63.1  -> 2 WS

2 WS:

PCP VGA 17.4
PCP 101 6.5

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3409  1554
16  6818  3108
32 13641  6217

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   3409  1524
16  6818  3049
32 13636  6101


S3 86C805

3DBench2
65.6 -> 1 WS?

PCP VGA 16.6
PCP 101 5.9

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3719  1364
16  7440  2728
32  8614  3614

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   2044  1406
16  4087  2812
32  8174  5624


SPEA VEGA CL-GD5424

60.8 -> 3 WS
PCP VGA 16.5
PCP 101 5.9

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3147  1521
16  6294  3043
32  8183  4051

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   3146  1509
16  6293  3018
32  8182  4019

Trident TGUI9400CXI

O/C
?/? NI/I ?/+APS ?/FAST CLK ?/?   
J1  J8  J7  J10 JX7
1-2 C   O   O   C

3DBench2 52.8
PCP VGA 15.8
PCP 101 6.1

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   2383  1051
16  4768  2103
32  6059  2797

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   2406  1498
16  4812  2997
32  9628  5994

Stealth 64 VRAM 86C968

3DBench2
65.6 -> 1 WS

PCP VGA 17.5
PCP 101  6.6

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3719  1308
16  7440  2616
32 14881  3721

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   3719  1406
16  7438  2068
32 14882  2716

DOOM: 2134 Gametics, 2087 Realtics

miro CRYSTAL 20SD 86C864

3DBench2
65.6 -> 1 WS

PCP VGA 17.5
PCP 101 6.6 (banked), with LFB got black screen 

VIDSPEED 320x200x256
width write read
8   3719  1272
16  7440  2546
32 14881  3484

VIDSPEED 640x480x256 VESA banked
width write read
8   3719  1288
16  7438  2576
32 14882  5154

DOOM: 2134 Gametics, 2080 Realtics


Numbers are in fps and kB/s respectively.

To be really precise: The numbers indicate that no card runs at 0 WS setting on the card itself. There are cards where you can set 1 WS to 4 WS on the card, like on the ET4000W32i, other cards have no jumper at all. However the benchmark results with e.g. identical numbers over a wide range of cards in 3Dbench 1.1c for a set WS and different cards make it possible to deduce the actual WS of the cards without jumpers. This is marked as "fps -> x WS" at the 3DBench scores.
The 0 WS means that I didn't added more WS using the mainboard BIOS. So the lowest setting means 1 WS card, 0 WS BIOS, 42 MHz VLB bus. I have not a single VLB card that allows to jumper 0 WS explicitly. From the scores you can see that even the S3 86C968 runs with 1 WS.
Cards that did not worked with the 42 MHz are the S3 Trio32 from miro and the S3 Trio64. I have not conducted further testing on a 33 MHz system to find out the actual WS setting of the Trios.

You talk about ISA WS, the S3 Vision in the NexGen system is VLB. (or do you mean VLB?)

Stability testing:
First of all of course the usual DOS games/benchmarks and even high resolutions looking for transfer artefacts in the image. The next stage is Windows 95 where all the 2D GUI acceleration function like BitBlt are used as well. I did various benchmarks, especially to find out the fastest DirectX driver for the S3 card with ZDWinbench. I also took the burden and went down to hell several times to kill Diablo which sums up to a character of level 27 in normal difficulty. I didn't had stability issues.

What would you say this system is equivalent to performance-wise? Intel 486DX4-100?


This is really difficult to answer. It seems to me, that the CPU can be as fast as a POD83 if the core gets optimal sorted code. With non-optimal code the performance can drop below a 486DX2-66 on average. So a 486DX4-100 might be a good approximation on average.
I have not a single program where the code is optimized for Nx586, where I could see the optimal case.

I mean Duke3D was recompiled for 386, maybe the compiler has Nx586 as target as well? Could be worth a try.
Also the Nx586 can be switched to run native RISC86 code.
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, HQ Videos.
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2288
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby Anonymous Coward » 2016-11-06 @ 02:14

Are there any nexgen boards that have FPU sockets? I'm really curious what the FPU performance was like, given that Intel abandoned discrete FPUs in the 486 generation due to bottlenecks.
Will the highways on the internets become more few?
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium
User avatar
Anonymous Coward
l33t
 
Posts: 2968
Joined: 2008-3-20 @ 05:37
Location: Shandong, China

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby feipoa » 2016-11-08 @ 01:05

elianda, interesting means of deducing the wait states.

I was indeed referring to my ISA cards - none of them would work with 0ws except for a crummy Trident ISA card. For faster cards, they would show some instability or artifacts w/ 0ws. If the system is not stable, I don't give much credence to the results.

Sounds like a basic Intel DX4-100 would be the preferred system here because few, if anyone, was optimising code for the Nx586. Without an onboard FPU, having an approximate P83 in ALU performance is not all that desirable.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 5915
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby elianda » 2016-11-08 @ 01:39

Indeed for common use a regular 486 or low end pentium would be preferred. Still the Nx586 is quite interesting.

It's a bit OT, but how do you get the actual ISA WS?
In the BIOSes I have there is generally no option. Sometimes an additional WS can be set and the ISACLK.
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, HQ Videos.
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2288
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby Tetrium » 2016-11-15 @ 11:27

Impressive Elianda, and very nice to see one of these in working condition. I can't remember having seen any NexGen hardware in the flesh, except for someone having a single NexGen CPU with most of its pins bent and he wouldn't part with it while still being alive lol
And I certainly never even seen or read about a working NexGen rig afaicr, even that AXPpci was more common.

Very interesting and nicely done :).
User avatar
Tetrium
l33t++
 
Posts: 7689
Joined: 2010-1-27 @ 18:53
Location: Netherlands

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby sliderider » 2018-1-22 @ 11:00

Anonymous Coward wrote:Are there any nexgen boards that have FPU sockets? I'm really curious what the FPU performance was like, given that Intel abandoned discrete FPUs in the 486 generation due to bottlenecks.


I've seen press photos of them but I don't think they ever actually saw production before Nexgen was acquired by AMD. I have also never seen a standalone FPU chip, not even on any of the sites devoted to old CPU's. The only Nexgen FPU's I have ever seen were Nx586 chips with the FPU onboard. I have 2 ISA motherboards and 1 PCI motherboard here that I have been holding for a while until I decide to either resell or build them and none of them has an FPU socket on them.
User avatar
sliderider
l33t++
 
Posts: 5754
Joined: 2010-6-25 @ 13:02

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby ph4nt0m » 2018-9-17 @ 03:59

Nx587 exists, but it's rather an engineering sample. None of the mainboards produced for Nx586 in large numbers had a coprocessor socket.
Attachments
nx587_front.jpg
nx587_back.jpg
User avatar
ph4nt0m
Member
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 2018-1-01 @ 19:03

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby Anonymous Coward » 2018-9-17 @ 04:41

Weird. I ddidn't know that those FPUs were SPGA.

I think I heard the only boards that have the socket are development boards.
Will the highways on the internets become more few?
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium
User avatar
Anonymous Coward
l33t
 
Posts: 2968
Joined: 2008-3-20 @ 05:37
Location: Shandong, China

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby amadeus777999 » 2018-9-17 @ 19:11

Now that's a nice system!

Do you have a background in programming - could you be more specific on the sloped surface issue in Duke?
User avatar
amadeus777999
Oldbie
 
Posts: 628
Joined: 2013-7-04 @ 17:04

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby feipoa » 2019-1-09 @ 13:18

I've run a quick test on mine and it also shows some odd timings in Speedsys.

Nx586-P110_Speedsys.png
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 5915
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby elianda » 2019-1-09 @ 19:01

You got the PCI board?

Also memory speed is notably faster.
Retronn.de - Vintage Hardware Gallery, Drivers, Guides, HQ Videos.
Youtube Channel
FTP Server - Driver Archive and more
DVI2PCIe alignment and 2D image quality measurement tool
User avatar
elianda
l33t
 
Posts: 2288
Joined: 2006-4-21 @ 16:56
Location: Halle / Germany

Re: NexGen Nx586-P90

Postby feipoa » 2019-1-09 @ 19:36

Yea, PCI w/P110 CPU.

Its hard to trust the memory scores with all those peaks and valleys. I should see if other memory graph programs have this problem.
User avatar
feipoa
l33t++
 
Posts: 5915
Joined: 2011-3-07 @ 13:54
Location: Canada


Return to System Specs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests