VOGONS


Reply 20 of 42, by firage

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Looks like your Tekram is twice as fast as the LCS-6941 where it counts, the linear read speed between the cache and the HDD. Less than two megs per second is pretty bad, later ISA controllers handily beat that. Higher speed modes may have been enabled with a driver, or it's just really old.

I love the mini tower, too cute.

My big-red-switch 486

Reply 22 of 42, by manuelink64

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tikoellner wrote:

Thanks man! Next I will replace Promise controller with Tekram Dc-680c that I just found and add some really hdd for complete retro experience. And it's done.

Unless you have any idea to hype how it a little more 😉

maybe a glossy black (or red) coat on the outside of the chassis with the white inside 😎

7ded752da68808be5bcb6e4f160848de.jpg
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[Unisys CWP] [CPU] AMD-X5-133ADZ [RAM] 64 MB (4x36) FPM [HDD] Seagate 8.4GB [Audio] SB16 SCSI 2 (CT1770) [Video] ATI Mach64VT2 [OS] Windows 95 OSR2.5

Reply 23 of 42, by tikoellner

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Apart from doing some spring-cleaning in my garden I took some time to get things done with my build.

I played with TEKRAM controller a bit:

- I upgraded BIOS from version 2.03 to 2.06 I found on the network (I just used some Winbond 27C512 that I had laying around and my newly acquired Easypro P90 programmer);
- I installed another CF adapter at the back of the case for easy access and hooked it up. Everything works like a charm. It's a very comfortable manner of transfering data. I think Addonics front bay adapter would be even better but hey, they cost a lot of money.

Now I still need to get some PSU cord splitters as I'm at least one plug short. Had to source power for the second adapter by temporarily detaching 1.44 drive. And I want them both working.

I still have some concerns about the cooling. I found that my 486DX2 ODPR runs very hot. It's actually almost burning my fingers. Do you think I should look for some cooling solution? (I thougt of installing a fan at the front of the case). Is this normal for 486DX2 ODPR to run this hot?

Reply 24 of 42, by tikoellner

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Today I finally got ASUS VL/I-486SV2GX4 motherboard. Unlike the previous one this one actually works!

Now I'm left with the dilema: should I leave the system as it is (with ASUS VL/I-486SVGO) or replace it with SV2GX4?

I guess I couldn't justify building another VLB system. Some parts then must go to the drawer! 😀

Reply 25 of 42, by luckybob

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the slow read speeds can be caused by crappy Chinese CF cards. Test it in a fast machine using a usb 2.0 reader. That will tell us where to go from here.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 27 of 42, by Jo22

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luckybob wrote:

the slow read speeds can be caused by crappy Chinese CF cards. Test it in a fast machine using a usb 2.0 reader. That will tell us where to go from here.

I'd rather use USB 3.x readers now. Some of my flash cards do already outperfom my old USB 2.0 readers.. :)
Or if you're still on an older platform, try to use a Firewire reader. Here's one from DeLock, but I believe Lexar also made one.

tikoellner wrote:

I still have some concerns about the cooling. I found that my 486DX2 ODPR runs very hot. It's actually almost burning my fingers. Do you think I should look for some cooling solution? (I thougt of installing a fan at the front of the case). Is this normal for 486DX2 ODPR to run this hot?

I'm no 486 expert, but when I was young(er) I've seen many 486DX2 systems without any cooler/heat sink.
So I'd tend to say that 486DX2-66 is about the point where a heat sink begins to make sense (486DLC also).

Faster CPUs may also require a little fan or a chassis with good air flow.
Or just a larger heat sink/a heat sink with longer spikes.

If that's not possible, you can try to additionally use power saving features.
In DOS, there's power.exe or DOSidle (freeware).

For Win.3x, you can select "APM" machine type in Windows setup or uae WQGHLT.
You'll find them here : http://www.scampers.org/steve/vmware/

That beeing said, it isn't always bad for components beeing warm or hot.
- As far as I know, some even need a specific operational temperature to function properly.

And early 286 CPUs got also very hot - their ceramic package even boosted the surface temperature.
If it didn't, the heat would stay inside the chip package. They also had got heat sinks long before the 486 generation.

That's also why prototypes and small series often used ceramic chips. They were higher quality items in comparison to plastic chips.
MIL-quality chips are/were also often made with ceramic package and golden legs. That's over-kill for mass production, of course. ;)

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 28 of 42, by tikoellner

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Today I got VL/I-486SV2GX4 motherboard. I installed 512kb cache and the newest BIOS version. I am testing the board with IBM 5x86C, but later I will put 486 DX2-66 back to its place.
Also installed Adaptec AVA-2825 SCSI/IDE insead of TEKRAM... that's my first SCSI EVER!

Reply 29 of 42, by tikoellner

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I think I'm lost here.

I tried to change this SVGO motherboard to SV2GX4 and succeeded, but I'm getting worse results now.

I used exactly the same components (RAM, video card, controller, etc.), I also added 256kb of cache.

I set the motherboard to no wait states, etc.

Still, in 3dBench I'm getting about 5 FPS less than on the previous, older board...

Any ideas?

Reply 30 of 42, by firage

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Using all the same jumper settings? (The CPU config, cache type, VESA wait state, etc.)
The same BIOS version?

Two banks of cache (that is, all sockets filled) should probably be some amount faster due to interleaving.

I have one of each, too. Haven't had them both running yet for comparisons.

My big-red-switch 486

Reply 31 of 42, by jade_angel

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Try various things like cachechk and speedsys - the more detailed results might give you some idea what's going on.

Main Box: Macbook Pro M2 Max
Alas, I'm down to emulation.

Reply 32 of 42, by tikoellner

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The board seems to have problems with cache. It is recognised as 512kb on the boot screen but cachechk and other diagnostics report no cache. I swapped cache sets adjusting jumpers but it had no effect. Is the board damaged? In bios cache both internal and external is enabled.

Reply 33 of 42, by Anonymous Coward

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In my opinion, running a DX/2-66 without heatsink and/or fan would be a mistake, especially if we are talking about the 5V verison. Even the 50MHz 486s normally had heatsinks.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 35 of 42, by arncht

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is your bios date 1994.04.26? i have the Asus VL/I-486SVGOX4 rev 1.2 - it comes with a 3.3v vrm, but without lba and dx4 direct support (it detects p24c).

i have checked the 1994 mags - the early dx4 computers used voltage converters, and the overdrive cpu was not released until 94 nov.
https://books.google.at/books?id=-Qil3sD8bgEC … epage&q&f=false

***

here is some vlb board comparison:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OiqfZ … dit?usp=sharing

Lucky Star 486 VL3 CACHE (MV035E) Opti 82C895A
MSI MS:4138 rev 1.3 SiS 85C471
Asus VL/I-486SVGOX4 rev 1.2 SiS 85C471
Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4 rev 2.0 SiS 85C471
Asus VL/I-486SV2GX4 rev 2.1 SiS 85C471

there is a big difference between the speeds with the bios defaults, but with the tweeked bios much less. surprisingly the opti895a outperformed in more benchmark tests the sis471 - it looks the vlb timing is more aggressive.

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 36 of 42, by treeman

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nice case, I got a 386 system in a almost identical one, I. thought mine was pretty tight with just isa cards yours is the next level with those vlb cards, very clean and nice!

Reply 37 of 42, by arncht

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Anonymous Coward wrote:

In my opinion, running a DX/2-66 without heatsink and/or fan would be a mistake, especially if we are talking about the 5V verison. Even the 50MHz 486s normally had heatsinks.

i measured, the dx4-100 is around 65c, the dx2-66 around 85c

My little retro computer world
Overdoze of the demoscene

Reply 38 of 42, by Intel486dx33

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My 486dx-33 budget computer cost me $2500 back in 1993.
Generic Chinese motherboard ISA
128kb cache
4mb ram
120mb hard-drive
Sony 2x CDROM
Oaktech VGA ISA
Sound Blaster clone
14.4 modem
Case very similar to yours.
14” SVGA display.
Cheap desktop speakers.
Win3.11 and DOS 6.22

There was a local computer store that would build computers to your choice of components.
And this was all I could afford at the time.

Your computer would have cost about well over $5000.

Motherboard: ASUS VL/I-486SVGO (an early edition of SV2GO, which I had but failed to get running). Based on SIS chipset, with 2 VLB slots and PS/2 connector. ( $150 )

- CPU: i486DX2 66 ODPR. It was already in the board as I bought it. I love the purple looks of this CPU. And it supports writeback cache. ( $150 )

- Memory: 16mb FPU (2x8mb) ( $1600 )

- Cache: 256kb (the board is expandable to 1024kb, but did not find the proper modules) ( $100 )

- Video: VLB Cardex TSENG-ET4000/W32i with 2mb DRAM ( $150 )

- IDE controller: Longshine LCS-6941 VLB caching controller with 4mb cache (4x1mb modules). I flashed the BIOS with the newest firmwere and now it supports LBA flawslessly! First I had some trouble getting FDD working. It was simply a foulty 1.44 drive. ( $100 )

-Soundcards: Ensoniq Soundscape II Elite (with DSP module) - form MIDI and MT32 emulation, Sound Blaster CT-1600 for OPL3 and Gravis Ultrasound Classic 3.73 for the games that support it and some demos.
( Allot of MONEY $$$$$ )

- CD-ROM: Mitsumi 2x. Propietary inteface hooked up to Ensoniq card. ( $150 )

- 1.2 and 1.44 floppy drives

- CF-IDE adapter with 2gb CF card (some Sandisk) ( Hard-drives where about $1 per megabyte ).

- Also replaced the crappy PSU with some better quality one.

Reply 39 of 42, by canthearu

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tikoellner wrote:
I think I'm lost here. […]
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I think I'm lost here.

I tried to change this SVGO motherboard to SV2GX4 and succeeded, but I'm getting worse results now.

I used exactly the same components (RAM, video card, controller, etc.), I also added 256kb of cache.

I set the motherboard to no wait states, etc.

Still, in 3dBench I'm getting about 5 FPS less than on the previous, older board...

Any ideas?

The SVGO board is just a very fast board, I have one here, it outperforms everything else I've seen, in terms of I/O throughput.

If you are using a 486-DX2 66 CPU, I'd definitely stick with the SVGO board.