Andy1979 wrote:

- Intel 'Marl' Advanced/ML ATX motherboard (430HX)

That's a great motherboard! I have one too, with a Pentium 200MHz in it, and 2x 32MB EDO. It has a very long MTBF (over 100,000h!) and a really good HDD detection. I could boot MS-DOS 6.22 from a 60GB SSD (with S-ATA to IDE converter) without having any issues at all. It is only because I wanted to use the Pentium Pro that it now sits in storage (I don't have the space for more than four active systems). One potential downside is the "only" 256KB onboard cache that is not expandable (haven't seen one yet with 512KB although it was a manufacturing option per Intel's Technical Product Specification). Should give you a very reliable base for your system!

Andy1979 wrote:

- CD-ROM didn't appear in Win95 at first. Fixed by installing Intel 'bus mastering' IDE drivers, which at first clashed badly with the DOS CD driver / MSCDEX from the DOS 6.22 installation I launched the Windows CD from. Had almost forgotten what it was like before bootable CDs!

I have used the Win95 boot disk to launch the setup, worked like a charm and no need for booting up DOS. It can be found here if you don't have one around anymore.

voodoo5_6k wrote:

That's a great motherboard! I have one too, with a Pentium 200MHz in it, and 2x 32MB EDO. It has a very long MTBF (over 100,000h […]
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Andy1979 wrote:

- Intel 'Marl' Advanced/ML ATX motherboard (430HX)

That's a great motherboard! I have one too, with a Pentium 200MHz in it, and 2x 32MB EDO. It has a very long MTBF (over 100,000h!) and a really good HDD detection. I could boot MS-DOS 6.22 from a 60GB SSD (with S-ATA to IDE converter) without having any issues at all. It is only because I wanted to use the Pentium Pro that it now sits in storage (I don't have the space for more than four active systems). One potential downside is the "only" 256KB onboard cache that is not expandable (haven't seen one yet with 512KB although it was a manufacturing option per Intel's Technical Product Specification). Should give you a very reliable base for your system!

Andy1979 wrote:

- CD-ROM didn't appear in Win95 at first. Fixed by installing Intel 'bus mastering' IDE drivers, which at first clashed badly with the DOS CD driver / MSCDEX from the DOS 6.22 installation I launched the Windows CD from. Had almost forgotten what it was like before bootable CDs!

I have used the Win95 boot disk to launch the setup, worked like a charm and no need for booting up DOS. It can be found here if you don't have one around anymore.

Thanks. Yes, it's a nicely made board (made in Ireland I think), and unusual for something so old to use the ATX format (the backplate is weird by today's standards, but fortunately it came with one). It was an eBay purchase about 15yrs ago. Interesting on the cache front - mine has two cache chips and there's no space on the board for any more, so not sure how they'd fit 512KB on there. The manual also refers to the option of USB, but again I can't see any traces or bios options for this.

Should probably have used a boot disk but it's all working now. Thanks for the link. Next job is to install SP1 and all the other updates, which I've found links for online.

The only weird thing is the fact MIDI files play silently under W95 and NT4. Perhaps I need to double check my jumpers. Will also see what happens under DOS.

Hmm - there is definitely something amiss with the sound card in the current setup. WAV audio is fine, but whatever driver I use, OPL MIDI in Windows 95 and NT4 either plays silently, or is very, very distorted. Sometimes I get background noise through the speaker on start-up and this is cured by turning down the MIDI slider in the mixer. The latest drivers I tried installed a 'Soundfont' MIDI device, which plays fine but is obviously some kind of software wavetable using the WAV side of the card.

It's difficult as I only have an hour or two in the evenings to troubleshoot. Plan to try the following tonight/tomorrow:

- Different ISA slot (will triple-check all the jumpers while I'm at it)
- Clean install of MSDOS 6.22 on a different SD card with DOS Creative drivers
- Putting the SB16 in my 386 to see if the issue is related to the card or something else

Any other suggestions?

Oy, that's strange! 😳 Never had such an issue (CT1740 user here)..

Any other suggestions?

If it's only OPL3 related, you could try to install the FM driver manually.

Here are the settings for Windows 3.1, they *may* also work in Win95.
system.ini:

[drivers]
Midi=sb16fm.drv
Midi1=sb16snd.drv

Before you do, make a backup of system.ini.

Edit: Here are the SB16 settings for my Windows 3.1 installation (excpt. midimap.cfg).
I don't know if this hepful, though. Later Windows releases may use registry and different drivers..

Edit: Also found one of my older posts again..
Here's a generic OPL3 synth driver: Re: Getting Adlib General Midi to work in Windows 3.1 on Dosbox

Thanks for the help @Jo22

I have since tried the card with a clean install of DOS on my 386, and the test music in the DIAGNOSE.EXE program has the same issue, so I think I have a hardware problem with the card 🙁

I've created a separate thread for the SB16 issues in case anyone knows what might be causing this: Malfunctioning Sound Blaster 16 (CT2291)

Since my biggest problem is free time I've done what I should have done in the first place and ordered a 'new' Audician 32 Plus for my P133 build.

Will still try to get the SB16 going to replace the noisy Opti card I have at the moment and update the separate thread with any progress. Will continue with the Pentium build when the new sound card arrives.

Managed to spend far too much of this weekend trying to get this system working properly. To cut a long story short, the problem was the SD to IDE adapter. Tried it with Sandisk Extreme, Transcend and Samsung SD cards, of varying sizes from 1gb to 8gb and the result was always the same - installing software from CD would tend to lock up the system, and Windows would quickly corrupt itself - registry errors, missing files at start-up, all the classics. Tried Win98SE and got the same result. DOS and Windows 3.11 fared better.

Some really weird behaviour e.g. installing Windows 95 seemed to somehow disable the secondary IDE controller at the BIOS level, for which the only fix was installing the proper Intel 'bus mastering' IDE drivers.

Might have suspected PSU issued, but I've solved this for now by reverting to a 1081mb Connor IDE drive that came with my P120 back in the day. System now runs perfectly and very stably, but 1gb isn't really enough for all the games and software I want to install and my only ways to get files on/off the machine are network cable or floppy. So, I have some 'Industrial' CF cards on order from Amazon - 2gb for Win95 and 1gb for DOS -will see how I get on with those.

I was also getting some graphics corruption in Megarace 2 so I switched out the graphics card for the Matrox and have a much sharper image now. On the positive side the Audician 32 arrived and sounds great, and my original 21yr old 6x CD ROM seems to have no problem with CDRs. 3DFX card works great with Forsaken (once I figured out how to disable the intro video as I don't have the Intel Indeo codec installed!)

Spec now stands at:
- Pentium 133
- Intel 'Marl' Advanced/ML ATX motherboard (430HX)
- 64mb RAM
- Matrox Millennium PCI 2mb
- 3DFX voodoo 4mb
- Yamaha Audician 32 plus
- 6x IDE CD-ROM
- 3Com 3C905C-TX-M
- Connor 1081mb HD (to be replaced by CF cards hopefully)

Some further success.

Transcend Industrial CF cards arrived (1gb for DOS and 2gb for Windows 95), and are working great. Need to make sure in future that I buy CF cards with True IDE modes, not just UDMA7 (which 430HX chipset doesn't support). 2gb card is 160X and much faster than the Connor HD.

Have now loaded up NFS III, Quake 2, Little Big Adventure, Lost Eden and a few other games. All working great.

Anyone know where I can get the right Intel Indeo codec (4.1 I think) for the Forsaken intro video?

Finally, a few photos now that this is up and running.

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Currently I have a 1gb CF card with DOS 6.22 installed, which is working great with older DOS games (Doom, Alien Trilogy, Links LS, Little Big Adventure, Megarace 2) and some DOS Glide games (Tomb Raider, GTA 1).

Also have a 2gb CF card with Windows 95 (retail) installed, which I'm using for OpenGL and DirectX 5 games. This has given me some major headaches as I kept getting Invalid Page Fault errors, seemingly at random. Must have reinstalled Windows at least 10 times, so progress has been slow. Finally tracked this down to being caused by the Intel Bus Mastering IDE drivers. Originally I had no choice but to use these as the Windows 95 installer was disabling the secondary IDE controller (at BIOS level somehow) until they were installed. This turned out to a BIOS bug, which was a problem because I have an OEM board. Followed @voodoo5_6k's advice to flash a 'retail' Advanced/ML BIOS and now the secondary controller works with the default Windows 95 drivers. Disk access is maybe a little slower at times, but the system is 100% stable and plenty fast enough for the games I want to run. I guess it's most likely the CF card not playing nice with the bus mastering drivers.

Astounded at the difference the 3DFX card makes to the system. Games like Quake 2 which are slow and blocky are suddenly playable at VGA resolution with smooth textures and water effects. Forsaken looks absolutely amazing with all the lighting effects - I'd forgotten just how hard that game is!

Jobs left to do:
- Bblonde the front of the CD-ROM drive so it matches the case
- Sort out some more period correct speakers - either some beige Yamahas, or I might dig out my old Technics hifi and use that, just as I did back in the day
- Set up another CF card with NT4
- Sort out a desk in my loft space so I don't have to keep using it on the floor!

Although the system is definitely CPU limited for Windows gaming, I'm going to stick with the P133 as I have a PIII-650 system waiting in the wings for a full fat Windows 98SE installation, which I guess will run all the same OpenGL and DirectX games much better, but lacks an ISA slot for all the DOS games. Motherboard dates from mid-2000 so I'm expecting to have to replace some capacitors 😒

Cool! Really nice looking system! And great that finally everything works as planned!

Nice touch with the Microsoft Natural Keyboard. I still use my old Natural Keyboard Pro too 😀 It is on the KVM+Audio switch for my retro setup.

NFS III was a lot of fun back then, especially when you started adding in all those custom cars. Do you use the joystick to play racing games? I prefer a game pad for those arcade racers (and a wheel for simulations), I only use the joystick for flight games like Jane's Longbow and such.

voodoo5_6k wrote:

Cool! Really nice looking system! And great that finally everything works as planned!

Nice touch with the Microsoft Natural Keyboard. I still use my old Natural Keyboard Pro too 😀 It is on the KVM+Audio switch for my retro setup.

NFS III was a lot of fun back then, especially when you started adding in all those custom cars. Do you use the joystick to play racing games? I prefer a game pad for those arcade racers (and a wheel for simulations), I only use the joystick for flight games like Jane's Longbow and such.

Thanks. Edited the above post as I got interrupted yesterday.

Glad I kept my old Natural Keyboard, and even better my fingers still remember where all the keys are!

Think I have some custom NFS III cars on a CDR somewhere, will have to dig that out. It's just about playable on this system - slows down a bit when lots of cars are on screen at the same time, so might have to dial down the effects a bit, or it could be a CPU limitation. Still amazing what a 4mb 3DFX card can achieve though, and a reminder that back in the late 90s even a one year old system would run into trouble with newer games.

I was using the joystick yesterday as I prefer the analog control, but use keyboard/joypad more often. I used to have a Logitech Driving Force GT (mostly for Gran Turismo 5) but had to eBay it as didn't have the space when I moved into my wife's flat 🙁 Now we have a house I'm wishing I'd kept it, but since it was USB it wouldn't work on this system anyway. Am thinking the joystick might be the way forward for Forsaken.

Andy1979 wrote:

Still amazing what a 4mb 3DFX card can achieve though, and a reminder that back in the late 90s even a one year old system would run into trouble with newer games.

Yeah, definitely amazing. The only downside is that you will not see the nice cockpit view because of the low memory. You'll at least need a Voodoo2 with 12MB to display the cockpits.

Andy1979 wrote:

It's just about playable on this system - slows down a bit when lots of cars are on screen at the same time, so might have to dial down the effects a bit, or it could be a CPU limitation.

Yes, it is. The game was released in October 1998, so a Pentium II would be better suited to run this game with all options maxed out. The Pentium II 450MHz was available since late August 1998.

Overall, your planned Pentium III 650 might be the better system for that game (and later ones). Do you already know what video card to use in it? A Voodoo3 perhaps?

Andy1979 wrote:

I used to have a Logitech Driving Force GT (mostly for Gran Turismo 5) but had to eBay it as didn't have the space when I moved into my wife's flat 🙁 Now we have a house I'm wishing I'd kept it, but since it was USB it wouldn't work on this system anyway.

Oh boy, same story here, several years ago, only with a SideWinder Force Feedback Wheel... I still regret giving it away... Maybe someday I'll get myself a replacement.

Anyhow, enjoy this nice system, now that everything's up and running 😀 And yes, a desk and a chair would really be good short-term comfort upgrade 😉

Nice work, indeed! Congratulations for a job well done! 😁

Thanks @Jo22

voodoo5_6k wrote:

Yes, it is. The game was released in October 1998, so a Pentium II would be better suited to run this game with all options maxed out. The Pentium II 450MHz was available since late August 1998.

Overall, your planned Pentium III 650 might be the better system for that game (and later ones). Do you already know what video card to use in it? A Voodoo3 perhaps?

I suspect the PIII will run all of the OpenGL/DirectX games better than this system, but I have enough pure DOS and Glide games to justify keeping both. The system is sitting in my parents' loft, untouched for about 5 years now. I'm hoping that it still contains my old Matrox G400, which should be a good match for the games I want to run on it. Originally had a Duron 600 system with that card and the three games I remember playing a lot were NOLF, NFS Porsche Unleashed (my favourite NFS game) and Max Payne (which ran OK, but was pushing it as my G400 is only 16mb). Also remember playing Half Life, which might run OK but since I also have the Steam version that's not a big deal.

Failing that it will have a 32mb Ati Rage 128, which is what the system came with when new. Also have both AGP and PCI Radeon 9200SE cards, but those aren't exactly period correct (and might be wrong AGP voltage - can't remember). Anything more demanding should run fine on the XP system. Will set up a new thread when I retrieve the computer. It's my next project now that the 386 and P133 are basically complete.

why a 133 and not a 166?

Nice system by the way.

Jade Falcon wrote:

why a 133 and not a 166?

Nice system by the way.

It's made out of the small stash of parts I already had in my parents' loft, so the choice was between a P133 and a Cyrix/IBM PR166+ 6x86L (which won't work in this motherboard). Didn't think it was worth upgrading for what a 166 would give me in extra speed. Mildly tempted to get a 200 but I'm only aiming to run the same games I played on a 120 back in the day. Would also prefer not to overclock, so 133 it is.

The only things that seem to slow down are later DirectX games that should run great on the PIII (assuming it still works).

I see, I did not know a 200mhz cpu would work in the system.
And yeah, a 200mhz would be a nice upgrade, better yet a mmx if the board supports it.

Jade Falcon wrote:

I see, I did not know a 200mhz cpu would work in the system.
And yeah, a 200mhz would be a nice upgrade, better yet a mmx if the board supports it.

P200 classic is the max supported, or I would need to find a rare and expensive MMX overdrive. There's a thread on Vogons where someone has run a normal MMX pentium on this board, effectively over-volting it, but don't want to do that. For me this is firmly a Pentium Classic system, so will stick with what I have.

Andy1979 wrote:

Jade Falcon wrote:

I see, I did not know a 200mhz cpu would work in the system.
And yeah, a 200mhz would be a nice upgrade, better yet a mmx if the board supports it.

P200 classic is the max supported, or I would need to find a rare and expensive MMX overdrive. There's a thread on Vogons where someone has run a normal MMX pentium on this board, effectively over-volting it, but don't want to do that. For me this is firmly a Pentium Classic system, so will stick with what I have.

I see. I have put a lot of mmx pents in older boards that lack support. Wile they do over volt the cpu, I never had any problems. You just need a better cooler.
Still it would be better that you don't use a mmx pent if its not supported do to a voltage problem.