It's always interesting to see an old OEM PC with stock specs.

I imagine the SIS GPU is one factor that's holding this system back. I'm not 100% sure about Pentium III compatibility, there were some OEM Socket 370 boards that only supported PPGA (Mendocino) Celerons, your millage may vary.

That machine could use a hard drive upgrade as well as a RAM upgrade as you've mentioned, why not bump up the RAM upgrade to something like 128MB? As long as larger PC-100 DIMMs are plentiful and cheap, I don't see why you shouldn't go beyond 64MB.

I'd probably add some sound card to the ISA slot for better compatibility with DOS games, at least depending on how decent the onboard ESS Solo 1 chipset is for that purpose as some people have said it was the best you could get for DOS compatibility on a PCI sound card.

From what I can see its a rebranded IN620 motherboard (see attached PDF); I'm highly tempted to try flashing the latest IN620 based BIOS which I've found. It does mention Pentium III compatibility, but I'm still not sold on the idea of it actually running a PIII CPU. And yeah, good shout on the RAM, I should just slap 128MB in there. Was tempted to put a nice AWE 64 in there; I did have some one upon a time, but I don't know if they're still around!

Man, this is a real oddball machine! Unfortunately it appears to be one of those unfortunate boards you mentioned, KCompRoom2000. According to the website, it only supports Mendocino Celerons, despite there being settings for a 100MHz system bus, and the chipset should support PIIIs too.

Found some RAM kicking about, too much, in fact! Had it running with 512MB of RAM, and it certainly improves things, but even with a G550 graphics card its still painfully slow; as soon as there's any particle or lighting effects, the frame rate tanks to single figures. I'll reinstall the OS and see whats what, but its very odd behaviour. I found that disabling particle and lighting effects (cl_lights and cl_particles) sped it up massively. The strangeness continues, as the multiplier will not budge at all, even when I do change the multiplier jumpers. It is constantly stuck at 5.5, no matter what multiplier you select; in fact from the factory the jumpers were configured for an x6 multiplier...

Luckily the machine is standard MATX form factor, so I'm tempted to get a decent 370 motherboard for it... now I just have to try and find one!

Here's the website for the board, which amazingly still exists.

It does say "Product specifications subject to change without notice." on the bottom of the page you've linked to, so there may be hope, otherwise, I'd imagine a 533 MHz Mendocino Celeron should be a step up from the 366 MHz model you have. Have you actually tried to start the machine with a Pentium III CPU?

RichB93 wrote:

The strangeness continues, as the multiplier will not budge at all, even when I do change the multiplier jumpers. It is constantly stuck at 5.5, no matter what multiplier you select; in fact from the factory the jumpers were configured for an x6 multiplier...

AFAIK all Socket 370 (and most Slot 1) Intel CPUs aside from engineering samples have their multiplier locked, the motherboard will be using the CPU's default multiplier setting no matter what the motherboard's multiplier jumper is set to. Is there an FSB jumper on your motherboard? If so, FSB overclocking might be worth a shot since that's how some people overclocked Celerons back then.

As for the Matrox G550 GPU, I've heard that Matrox video cards regressed in memory specifications ever since the G450, so that could be one of the reasons why it's making things worse.

When it comes to the OS choice, which would you rather work with: An OS with a lightweight user interface and slightly less compatibility with newer applications or an OS with an IE-integrated Active Desktop user interface and more compatibility with newer programs? If the former sounds interesting to you, you want Windows 95, if you want the latter, you want Windows 98SE. There is a handful of games that supposedly won't run on 98 but will run on 95, if any of the games you're curious about are mentioned in that thread, then you probably have an excuse to try Windows 95 and see how you like it. Some copies of OSR2.5 may attempt to install Internet Explorer 4 upon startup, but I believe you can skip that, when in doubt, you could aim for OSR2.1 which is more or less the same aside from the lack of IE4, both OSR2.1 and OSR2.5 have the same degree of USB support.

RichB93 wrote:

Luckily the machine is standard MATX form factor, so I'm tempted to get a decent 370 motherboard for it... now I just have to try and find one!

That's the beauty of some of those OEM machines, anything with an ATX or MicroATX case can be converted to anything you want by simply swapping the motherboard (and maybe rewiring some cables). In fact, someone on here managed to put the guts of an Ivy Bridge i5 machine into an IBM Netvista case, so even if you end up replacing the motherboard, it'll still be an interesting sight to see. 😜

I’m a real fan of the P3, but had a whale of a time finding one online that’s any good and wasn’t silly money. Finally found a Compaq Intel 815 based board that’s standard MATX to replace this board as it’s super disappointing. Even quake 2 has massive frame rate drops which it shouldn’t. The replacement sadly has no backplate however, so I’ll have to keep on the look out for one!

I will return to this board, but it’s been a bit of a stinker so far! I recall my slot one 333 Celeron being better than this!

Well, whilst waiting for the shiny new(er) board to arrive, I thought I'd try the IN620 BIOS. It works, and it gives a LOT more BIOS options. I gave SpeedSys a go, and everything looks about right, so I'm not sure about why it chugs along in Quake 2... Will have to give the machine a full re-install at some point, as that's the only thing left that could be causing issues I guess. Still, all good fun! 😀

We had one of these new nearly 20 years ago. On the software side, I’d probably go 98SE - that way if you did it clean your could reinstall the licensed software from the Master CDs if you wanted to. To do that, though, you’d have to back up the tattoo, especially if you’re replacing the HDD and flashing the BIOS.

I’ve been looking into this process recently (albeit on more modern hardware), and it’s awkward to get right if you don’t have the backup!

LUNOTech wrote:

I bought one of these new nearly 20 years ago. On the software side, I’d probably go 98SE - that way if you did it clean your could reinstall the licensed software from the Master CDs if you wanted to. To do that, though, you’d have to back up the tattoo, especially if you’re replacing the HDD and flashing the BIOS.

I’ve been looking into this process recently (albeit on more modern hardware), and it’s awkward to get right if you don’t have the backup!

I have to admit that I was pretty disappointed by the speed of the original board, so for the time being, a nice 815 based board is sitting in there, which is much better for what I want. I may very well put it back as it was however, as it kinda seems a shame to change a stock machine. Luckily before my fannying about, I did take both a BIOS backup and dd'ed the hard disk to a file. I read up on the Tattoo stuff but couldn't make much sense of it. I haven't got the Master CD for it (yet), but I'm sure it'll be found in time.

With an AWE64, it'd make a killer DOS machine I'm sure, although the onboard ESS Solo is apparently decent for DOS games too. No idea how well the onboard graphics does with DOS games however; I would keep the Matrox G200 in there, but it has the annoying jerky motion bug on a few games. If I were to go that route, I would possibly be tempted to put Windows 95B on there too.

Ah I see. Well depending on the generation of the system (there was Hercules and Symphony for the Clubs if I’m not mistaken), I still have the CDs and boot floppy for the Hercules model. If you have a photo of the sticker on the back of the case, I could check if it’ll work and send you them if you’d like.

And if you should need anything regarding tattoos, I have recently reverse engineered and circumvented. Happy to help.

I’m afraid it’s neither! On the back, it’s identified as an ADEMUO-D4x4-DR7. If I do ever get ahold of the discs, I can provide them to you for the sake of completeness. I found a French Packard Bell fan site, but this machine was absent from the otherwise extensive list of machines!

Was that website Passion-PB by any chance? Yes I noticed that with my system too on there. That name you specified likely refers to the case type, since some NEC machines from the same period have that marking. The names I mentioned I don’t think are stamped on the case, but they are used internally in the data files on the discs. Do you have a P/N or S/N?

LUNOTech wrote:

Was that website Passion-PB by any chance? Yes I noticed that with my system too on there. That name you specified likely refers to the case type, since some NEC machines from the same period have that marking. The names I mentioned I don’t think are stamped on the case, but they are used internally in the data files on the discs. Do you have a P/N or S/N?

It was! And ah okay, that was just on the label on the case. The P/N is P070108601, the F/N(?) is ZSDPF, and the S/N is F574100044, although that serial may be truncated, as I'm not sure if the entire serial is in shot on the picture I'm looking at.

I've seen some generic Packard Bell Club bits online, including information the the motherboard, which is a DR724 (called a PB1030 in some places?), but not much more on the unit itself, or the master CD required.

I found the following resources online:

http://j12345.users1.50megs.com/menu/pb1030/1030man.asp.htm
http://www.uktsupport.co.uk/pb/faq/club.htm

F/N is the format number I believe. It makes up part of the tattoo, and is part of how the master restore discs determine what to restore - certainly European discs have files to restore a variety of similar systems. I will check if my discs can restore that system, and I can send them through if you’d like?

Is this your M/B?

If it is, I have it narrowed down to two Club modes, both of which are Hercules which my set *should* restore

That’s the one. It shipped with Win98 FE

In that case, it looks to be a Hercules system. And it looks like my master CDs and boot floppy will work on your system. If I’ve checked it right, it’s a Club 400.

If you’d like a copy of these discs, do let me know.

LUNOTech wrote:

In that case, it looks to be a Hercules system. And it looks like my master CDs and boot floppy will work on your system. If I’ve checked it right, it’s a Club 400.

If you’d like a copy of these discs, do let me know.

Fantastic, sounds good to me; would love a copy of the media for completeness! 😀 I may need a little help working out the tattoo stuff however! I have a dump of the hard disk; what am I looking for on it?

That’s absolutely fine. While I am only 17, I do hope I will be able to help with this. As I’m sure you’ve seen, the tattoo is a real pain to get right sometimes. Ideally, I would have continued this over PM, but it looks like I don’t have enough posts to do that yet (I joined specifically for this - and coincidentally your original post was on the same day as I was able to bypass the tattoo altogether and virtualise one of these systems).

With regards to what you’re looking for on the HDD image, you can (optionally) check a file called PB_FOR.VER which I think is in the root, which will prove compatibility with my set. To extract the tattoo from your hard drive, I’m not aware of a way of doing it without it actually being in a system, since a tool is needed to export the hidden sector and BIOS DMI information to a .bin file. This tool is present on the boot floppy and the first CD.

I'd also say killer Dos PC.
The good thing is you can test how this works with the currant OS, just boot it back to dos mode.
the Voodoo would be a good fit as it'll play any dos glide games REALLY well.

Re OS,
While the system could haply handle WIn98 SE, If you already have that on another PC then makes perfect sense to mix things up and run Win95 on this one.
IE4 is easy to skip, During setup the PC will make it to the desktop, run though a bit more of a setup (creating the start menu from memory) then reboot itself.
Take out the CD at this moment. Windows will ask for the CD again once its sitting at the desktop, just hit cancel. It wont bother you ever again 😀

Or you can copy the setup files to the HDD, leaving off the IE4 cab files

LUNOTech wrote:

That’s absolutely fine. While I am only 17, I do hope I will be able to help with this. As I’m sure you’ve seen, the tattoo is a real pain to get right sometimes. Ideally, I would have continued this over PM, but it looks like I don’t have enough posts to do that yet (I joined specifically for this - and coincidentally your original post was on the same day as I was able to bypass the tattoo altogether and virtualise one of these systems).

With regards to what you’re looking for on the HDD image, you can (optionally) check a file called PB_FOR.VER which I think is in the root, which will prove compatibility with my set. To extract the tattoo from your hard drive, I’m not aware of a way of doing it without it actually being in a system, since a tool is needed to export the hidden sector and BIOS DMI information to a .bin file. This tool is present on the boot floppy and the first CD.

Hmm, I wonder if my BIOS changing shenanigans will have messed this idea up! I'll try extracting the tattoo - how do I go about doing so? Frustratingly, I think I may have deleted the BIOS backup I took too. We shall see!

I found the file, and it's in the Windows directory. It contains the following:

124010001
2VERSION=28.00

chinny22 wrote:

I'd also say killer Dos PC. The good thing is you can test how this works with the currant OS, just boot it back to dos mode. […]
Show full quote

I'd also say killer Dos PC.
The good thing is you can test how this works with the currant OS, just boot it back to dos mode.
the Voodoo would be a good fit as it'll play any dos glide games REALLY well.

Re OS,
While the system could haply handle WIn98 SE, If you already have that on another PC then makes perfect sense to mix things up and run Win95 on this one.
IE4 is easy to skip, During setup the PC will make it to the desktop, run though a bit more of a setup (creating the start menu from memory) then reboot itself.
Take out the CD at this moment. Windows will ask for the CD again once its sitting at the desktop, just hit cancel. It wont bother you ever again 😀

Or you can copy the setup files to the HDD, leaving off the IE4 cab files

Yeah, I was thinking of maybe adding a Voodoo to this and 95B (sans Internet Exploder guff) to make it into a nice little DOS box. The newer Compaq board I put in there will probably move to another case at some point.