PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

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PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-5-22 @ 23:19

Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG
CPU Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2/512k/800
RAM 2x512MB DDR-400

Slots I have available:
4x/8x AGP
3x PCI (4 if I used a single slot video card)
6x 16-bit ISA (there may also be enough space for an 8-bit card in the slot next to the SBC but it would be really squishy)

3 of the ISA slots only have enough room for cards that are about the length of the slot itself.
2 of the ISA slots can have long-ish cards.
1 of the ISA slots can have a full length ISA card IF I modify the drive cage mount.

Video cards I am thinking about using:
ATI x800xt PE
Nvidia Quadro FX3000

I've also got some less high end AGP cards. Pretty sure those are the fastest I have that have WIN98SE drivers.

As far as sound cards, here is what I am thinking.

I'm thinking for PCI an Audigy 2ZS and a Vortex 2 for Windows 98SE.

For a PCI card for DOS I'll probably use an AOPEN Yamaha YMF744.

That leaves me with what to use for ISA.... Maybe an AWE64.
What else? I've literally got a huge number of sound cards.

Whatever I put in, it will probably change at some point, but I would like a starting point.

What about:
Turtle Beach Tropez Plus
Terratec EWS64 XL
Gullimot Maxi Studio ISIS

Probably something with real/clone OPL3 just in case something doesn't work quite right with the YMF744 PCI card.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby j^aws » 2018-5-23 @ 03:05

Nice; I have the same backplane and SBC. Whenever I get enough time, my build will be a MIDI box/ DAW with plenty of sound cards for Win98SE. Good luck on the build.

BTW, please can you report if you can disable L1 cache for the P4, and some benches. Cheers.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-5-23 @ 04:48

The BIOS allows you to disable both L1 and L2 cache.

I wonder if it would allow disabling of the L3 cache on the Extreme Edition CPUs.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby j^aws » 2018-5-23 @ 11:07

^^ Even if you could disable L3 cache on EE P4s, being on-die cache doesn't give much flexibility for speed ranges, unlike L3 cache being off-die in a K6-III+ setup using a Socket 7 board.

Lowest multiplier I've seen is 12x on an unlocked P4, and with an FSB of 100 MHz using Socket 478. I could get a Northwood P4 slowed to 1200 MHz. Disabling L1 cache and using Min/ Max FSB, I could get 386 to 486 speed ranges. Then a large gap upto 1200 MHz.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby hard1k » 2018-5-23 @ 12:39

In my book the videocard should be either ATI (or any other with a red PCB), and the main ISA sound should be GUS, no options here :D

And do you guys have any confidence that it will take the Gallatin EE? I'm interested if I have to source one for the same build.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-5-23 @ 13:35

I don't see why it wouldn't take a Gallatin EE. I tested a Prescott Mobile 3.2 in it and it booted up and those are newer so I'm guessing the microcode for Gallatin is in there as well.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby j^aws » 2018-5-23 @ 14:08

^^ Are these Prescott Mobile P4s unlocked? And their lowest multiplier?

AFAIK, the Socket 478 EE P4s are multiplier locked.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-5-23 @ 17:28

j^aws wrote:^^ Are these Prescott Mobile P4s unlocked? And their lowest multiplier?

AFAIK, the Socket 478 EE P4s are multiplier locked.


I think the lowest multiplier is 6x, but I would need to probably set the system up with XP to see if I can change the multiplier via software.

I don't have any normal s478 motherboards so I don't really have another way to test to see if the multiplier is changeable.

Not sure why you would ever need anything higher than the stock multiplier on an overclockable board though. Pretty sure the multiplier is not going to be fully unlocked.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby j^aws » 2018-5-23 @ 17:58

cyclone3d wrote:Not sure why you would ever need anything higher than the stock multiplier on an overclockable board though. Pretty sure the multiplier is not going to be fully unlocked.

If 6x multiplier is possible, and starting with 100 MHz FSB, we should see a range from 286-486 speeds open up with L1 cache disabled. Of course, I have other systems in that range, but this will make IEIs board even more flexible.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby buckeye » 2018-5-23 @ 18:15

cyclone3d wrote:Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG
CPU Pentium 4 Northwood 3.2/512k/800
RAM 2x512MB DDR-400

Slots I have available:
4x/8x AGP
3x PCI (4 if I used a single slot video card)
6x 16-bit ISA (there may also be enough space for an 8-bit card in the slot next to the SBC but it would be really squishy)

3 of the ISA slots only have enough room for cards that are about the length of the slot itself.
2 of the ISA slots can have long-ish cards.
1 of the ISA slots can have a full length ISA card IF I modify the drive cage mount.

Video cards I am thinking about using:
ATI x800xt PE
Nvidia Quadro FX3000

I've also got some less high end AGP cards. Pretty sure those are the fastest I have that have WIN98SE drivers.

As far as sound cards, here is what I am thinking.

I'm thinking for PCI an Audigy 2ZS and a Vortex 2 for Windows 98SE.

For a PCI card for DOS I'll probably use an AOPEN Yamaha YMF744.

That leaves me with what to use for ISA.... Maybe an AWE64.
What else? I've literally got a huge number of sound cards.

Whatever I put in, it will probably change at some point, but I would like a starting point.

What about:
Turtle Beach Tropez Plus
Terratec EWS64 XL
Gullimot Maxi Studio ISIS

Probably something with real/clone OPL3 just in case something doesn't work quite right with the YMF744 PCI card.


What games are you targeting with this setup? Impressive parts line up, way beyond my "depth" tho on the troubleshooting/testing front.
Foxconn Q45M E8400 Core2 Duo 2GB DDR2 800 160GB BFG Geforce 7950GT 512MB 500W XP SP2
Asus P3B-F P3 850 512MB 40GB Hercules 3D Prophet II 64MB Voodoo2 SLI Aureal Vortex 2 400W 98SE
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby tpowell.ca » 2018-5-23 @ 18:26

cyclone3d wrote:Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG


I'm curious about this. Won't there be possible IRQ issues?
Is it even possible to manually assign IRQs (reserve) for use by the backplane?
    Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160, 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, ESS688, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB, HardMPU
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, GUS 16MB, Voodoo3-3k
    Einstein: P8P400, P4-3GHz HT, 1.5GB, Quadro4 980XGL, Live!
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-5-23 @ 20:59

tpowell.ca wrote:
cyclone3d wrote:Getting my PIAGP build put together. I'll post pics one I figure out exactly which video card and sound cards I am going to use.

So far the general specs are:
Backplane - IEI PCIAGP-13S2 v2.3 with the PISA-KIT01 ISA bridge card (should give full ISA support including DMA)
SBC card - IEI PIAGP-865EVG


I'm curious about this. Won't there be possible IRQ issues?
Is it even possible to manually assign IRQs (reserve) for use by the backplane?


Yep, the BIOS has the auto/manual settings for IRQs for legacy use. :happy:

Working on my 486 build at the moment, but I will definitely post once I do some more on this build.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby PARUS » 2018-5-29 @ 04:46

Guys you may don't much worry about minimum multiplier for DOS games. Pentium 4 has specific register 0x19A which does slow down CPU via skipping effective tacts. It is a special function for CPU throttle if it get too high temperature. But we can turn it manually including in pure DOS. Values are (%) 87.5, 75, 67.5, 50, 32.5, 25, 12.5, and it is NOT chipset throttling, please don't confuse! Pentium 2/3 both haven't this function.
I have DOS tool which can work with MSR. By this tool it is possible to slow down P4 CPU via 19Ah register.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby j^aws » 2018-5-29 @ 13:36

PARUS wrote:Guys you may don't much worry about minimum multiplier for DOS games. Pentium 4 has specific register 0x19A which does slow down CPU via skipping effective tacts. It is a special function for CPU throttle if it get too high temperature. But we can turn it manually including in pure DOS. Values are (%) 87.5, 75, 67.5, 50, 32.5, 25, 12.5, and it is NOT chipset throttling, please don't confuse! Pentium 2/3 both haven't this function.
I have DOS tool which can work with MSR. By this tool it is possible to slow down P4 CPU via 19Ah register.

That's really cool to hear. I'd benchmark this to see what kind of Speedsys results are achievable. Do you have a link to this tool?
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby PARUS » 2018-5-29 @ 15:45

j^aws, viewtopic.php?f=25&t=60392#p674968
For Pentium 4 it is only CPU throttle available (MSR 0x19A), others (cache, multiplier) are not available. Thus Core 2 is much more customizable than NetBurst.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby Scraphoarder » 2018-5-31 @ 19:01

There exist some socket 775 PIAGP SBCs such as one named SAGP-8654-EVG that looks like it can take a Pentium D, but probably not Core 2 Duos. Would like to have that SBC to play with, but its most likely expensive and difficult to find.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby hard1k » 2018-5-31 @ 19:27

Google doesn't know anything about it, do you have any additional info?
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2018-5-31 @ 20:30

hard1k wrote:Google doesn't know anything about it, do you have any additional info?

Found it:
http://www.attro.com/sbc/SAGP-8654EVG.htm

Pentium D is the max officially supported and it is green instead of red.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby Dog » 2019-7-09 @ 01:32

Hi,

Did you ever finish this build? I'm going through a similar build and would be interested in seeing an update/pictures.
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Re: PIAGP (Pentium 4 AGP/PCI/ISA) build for DOS/WIN98SE

Postby cyclone3d » 2019-7-09 @ 14:18

It is still sitting on my work bench. I did finally get a P4EE I am going to put in it and did test it with an AWE64 which worked fine but I haven't completed it yet.
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