Project: First Person Shooter History

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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby dr_st » 2019-2-10 @ 17:16

You can't NOT play Daikatana. It's surprisingly good if you run Community Edition 1.3, and disable the sidekicks. :happy:
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby Stiletto » 2019-2-12 @ 22:34

If I recall correctly, Outlaws' engine is actually an upgrade upon the Star Wars: Dark Forces engine, an engine called "Jedi". It has a number of similarities to Build engine but is its own thing.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby Almoststew1990 » 2019-2-16 @ 21:24

Game 10 Complete!

Blood

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Everyone knows this game got known for being very gory, as well as actually being a good game too! Based on my list, it almost seems like the last of the "DOS, software, sprite/2.5D episodic mouse-optional shooters" although that's quite a long winded category. Is it a swansong for this kind of shooter or had it already been left behind by Quake?

Getting it running
I had no problems getting it running, including AWE32 sound (not that it seems to make much difference). It came with an installer but installed just fine.

Gameplay
This game lets you enable vertical mouse look from within the options (well, a keypress, but no console commands are required). However, the first thing I noticed is that the game doesn't like looking up and down at all, it is very stiff, there is a lot of delay, and it seems to move in lumps - not helpful when a fat dude is vomiting at you from above.

Similarly with Outlaws, the game has issues when you're shooting up and down; I'd be shooting the irritating hand-dudes crawing around on the floor and missing despite my cross hairs being squarely on those creepy ********.

As above, this game is well known for its gore. Why just have a dude crumple into a heap on the floor on death when he can explode into dozens of bloody bits? Why just have a dead guy in the corner of the room when you walk in, when you can have his decapitated head on a circular saw perpetually spraying blood onto the ceiling? It almost seems a little quaint now, what with games like heavy rain having you saw off your own finger and modern fps having limbs blow off "realistically". However, at the time I can see why it caused the controversy.

Fortunately, the minute-to-minute gunplay backs up the gore well. The range of guns is good, with a shotgun again being your go-to weapon against normal-level dudes. The flare gun makes enemies satisfyingly catch fire with one hit, but with a few seconds of delay, making it a tactical choice to use it. Jumping and gunning against a range of enemies remains as fun as ever, especially with different enemies having a range of tactics. I like how the basic zombidudes get knocked down before coming back for more; I'd knock a bunch down, deal with bigger threats in the room and then come back to finish them off with my stabby pitchfork. Then you have small creatures on the floor, from rats to spiders to the aforementioned creepy hands that jump up and strangle you. And then there are fish, giant spiders, gargoyles...

The tone of the game sites in between the extremes of Quake and Duke 3D, perhaps leaning towards Duke3D. It's definitely got a gorey, satanic world, but it doesn't take itself too seriously, with signs warning you to not drop the soap in the shower and the protagonist humming "somewhere over the rainbow" if you leave him idling for a while.

The environments are well crafted, and look quite nice (in a 'blood seeping from wall-sphincters' kind of way) but the world the levels paint is a rather generic "hell and monsters" with the bloody mess perk turned on. The levels are still mazey, with three or four keys to collect on each level (take your pick from moon, sun, fire, spider, dagger, skull keys...) However there are a few neat ideas and puzzles here to create a welcome break from just dungeons, caves and haunted mansions. In one level, you have a network of flowing waterways to navigate that effectively form several loops (you can't turn around). There are gates you can shoot to direct the water (and yourself) down alternative paths.

I am so done with mazes and keys.

I played on the easy mode after getting my butt kicked on middle and between easy and middle. Pathetic I know, but it has four episodes and I've got lots of games to play! I still didn't exactly sail through it, dying and quick loading regularly. It took me about 12 hours to do all four episodes.

Overall, I feel that yes, this does make a fitting end to DOS, software etc shooters before accelerated shooters became popular. It is as good as (but not better than) Duke 3D, however Blood has a similar tone to all the other miserable shooters before it, where Duke3D is just sort of out there on its own being very silly (which is great!).

Graphics and Performance
So this one definitely is a build engine game. I had it running at 640*480 with perfect performance (as you would hope), except when a notable proportion of the screen is water, then the framerate tanks. I believe there were patches for glide acceleration, for Voodoo 1's, which I don't have. Nothing to complain about here in general.

Sound
I used AWE32 sound with no problems. The sound effects are good, with good use of ambient sound, e.g. ghosts screaming, the indoctrinated NPCs moaning, gargoyles roaring. Some of the levels have distant chanting sounds in some rooms setting the atmosphere nicely.

The music however was completely forgettable. One song in particular has a high pitched whine through about half of its approx 3 minute length, so I'd get 90 seconds whining 90 seconds whine free.

Was it fun?
Yes.

Should you play it?
Yes, not only is it fun in its own right, I feel it really does mark the end of an era for DOS, software FPS games.

Screenshots
Here are some in-game screenshots. I tried to get a mix of nice environments with HUD and gun removed, and some in game bloody action.

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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby rasz_pl » 2019-2-16 @ 23:54

Just remembered another weird DOS game you might want to check out if you are interested in evolution of FPS genre and early quirky ideas about player control input - CyClones (1994) by Raven Software, AWSD with "mouselook", but not the way you think :) I wouldnt recommend a full play-through tho, 2-3 minutes is more than enough :-)
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby dr_st » 2019-2-17 @ 13:25

Re: DOS games and control schemes. Actually you could have a WASD+mouse set up as early as the first DOOM; however, it required manually editing the configuration file to set high mouse sensitivity, because the maximum you could do via the game menu was too low to be useful for quick turns. True, the original DOOM engine has no free-look, but a mouse is still very useful for quick turns, and once players discovered this control method, their playing skills went up significantly.

The original DOOM levels are no problem on UV (and for skilled players, even on Nightmare) with the standard keyboard-only Shift/Ctrl/Alt and arrows scheme; however, many of the ultra-hard level packs released in later years (Hell Revealed, etc.) would probably be very hard or impossible without the mouse (not to mention surviving deathmatch against mouse players).
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby LunarG » 2019-2-17 @ 18:55

This has been a really interesting read so far. It's fun to see how somebody not clouded by nostalgia reacts to these old games.
It's also quite obvious that a more modern audience have very different expectations of what an FPS game should be. Originally, the whole "labyrinth" style gameplay was a major part of the fps experience. Today, most fps games are about shooting other players.
As for that last bit though... I still think that Quake 3 Arena probably has the most pure "shoot other players" experience of any fps, even today. You just move fast, so it gives a very high paced gaming experience.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby Almoststew1990 » 2019-2-18 @ 19:21

LunarG wrote:It's fun to see how somebody not clouded by nostalgia reacts to these old games.


That's partly why I did it. You read people saying "Morrowind is the best game evarrr" (just as an example) and I, having not played Morrowind, give it a go with an open mind and find it that (without nostalgia) it most certainly is not the best game ever. In much the same way that I find Mafia 1 to be amazing, whilst people who try it now say it is nearly unplayable because of the difficultly, infrequent saves and clunky controls!

LunarG wrote:It's also quite obvious that a more modern audience have very different expectations of what an FPS game should be. Originally, the whole "labyrinth" style gameplay was a major part of the fps experience. Today, most fps games are about shooting other players.


Yes, and I'm open minded enough to see the good and the bad in modern shooters losing their early styles. As I've said in the early reviews, getting lost is one of the major frustrations, partly due to the tech with every room looking the same, and party due to the developer's aim in getting the player lost! But then, later shooters drop that and go for either deeper experiences (Half Life) or remove the mazey tedium from fast paced shooting. Like you say, Quake 3 is still a benchmark in some ways, but for the deeper experiences, modern games through their technology and scripting allow for the potential for a deeper and more immersive game.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby Almoststew1990 » 2019-2-18 @ 19:24

dr_st wrote:Re: DOS games and control schemes. Actually you could have a WASD+mouse set up as early as the first DOOM; however, it required manually editing the configuration file to set high mouse sensitivity, because the maximum you could do via the game menu was too low to be useful for quick turns. True, the original DOOM engine has no free-look, but a mouse is still very useful for quick turns, and once players discovered this control method, their playing skills went up significantly.

The original DOOM levels are no problem on UV (and for skilled players, even on Nightmare) with the standard keyboard-only Shift/Ctrl/Alt and arrows scheme; however, many of the ultra-hard level packs released in later years (Hell Revealed, etc.) would probably be very hard or impossible without the mouse (not to mention surviving deathmatch against mouse players).


Yes, I don't doubt that you can edit config files to enable mouse looking, but those games were clearly not designed for (or anticipating players would want to) play like this. Which is fine, it was quite a new genre after all. One of my made up rules I've come up with as I play is that I'm not going to mod or exploit the games. I want the experience as they launched (or after official patching).
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby dr_st » 2019-2-18 @ 19:40

Almoststew1990 wrote:Yes, I don't doubt that you can edit config files to enable mouse looking, but those games were clearly not designed for (or anticipating players would want to) play like this.
I think I should clarify that I was not talking about mouse look, but merely about using the mouse to execute fast turns; mouse look is still impossible in the original engine without extra utilities, but it's not really necessary either due to the auto-aim feature (and DOOM itself does not have any form of freelook anyways).
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby Almoststew1990 » 2019-2-18 @ 22:09

I'm currently playing Quake 2. The CD music only seems to play the first track over and over again (at least I assume it is the first track). Any ideas why this is?

Blimey those Blood screenshots seemed to have aged a million years now that I'm playing Quake 2 at 1024 *768!
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby dr_st » 2019-2-19 @ 07:11

Almoststew1990 wrote:I'm currently playing Quake 2. The CD music only seems to play the first track over and over again (at least I assume it is the first track). Any ideas why this is?
I think it's some sort of known bug, as I also remember experiencing this (while playing the GoG version). There might be a fix, but I never cared enough for this game to bother looking it up.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby clueless1 » 2019-2-19 @ 23:39

I played Quake 2 with no music. Copied the GOG version over to my retro PC and it worked great, minus the music, which I didn't bother trying to make work.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby Almoststew1990 » 2019-3-05 @ 23:12

Game 11 Complete!

Quake 2

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The sequel to one of the first fully 3D shooter, this had quite a lot to live up to. Yes, Jedi Knight 2 was on this list ahead of Quake 2 but I foolishly thought I'd be able to copy over the files from steam onto my W98 PC and play it that way, and I don't really want to play it on my proper PC, so I'm shelving Jedi Knight 2 for now (forever).

Getting it running
We're back in Windows (probably for good now) after playing Blood last. It worked just fine with my increasingly messy install of Windows 98, and I didn't patch the game.

Gameplay
I can't remember if this defaulted to mouse look or not but I played it with mouse look regardless. Mouse control also felt completely natural, compared to Blood and Outlaws where aiming up and down is jerky, and made it a breeze to circle strafe, run and gun and sink bullets into dudes with way too much health.

The tone continues from Quake 1, very moody (but not dark/ Gory like Blood), but perhaps taking itself a bit too seriously. I get the impression Quake Guy is a very serious hero on a very serious mission to very serious kill serious demons in hell, seriously. Where games like Duke 3D and even blood are enjoyable today through a lightness of tone, Quake, taking itself very serious feels quaint to such an extent I can't take it seriously. Zero plops were given about the plot as I played, partly because the story was given through bright green briefing screens (I think), and partly because I skipped the briefing screens as the text scrolling noise was obnoxiously loud. That's not to say the presentation and world presented in Quake 2 is bad (it's the most vividly painted so far by a long shot), I just wasn't able to willingly suspend my disbelief as I was constantly thinking beyond the story and gameplay.

Fortunately, the gameplay more than holds up, with a variety of weapons all delivering satisfying damage, except the starting pistol which I hope was deliberately made weaker than a fart in the enemy dudes' general direction. The double barrel shotgun deals "wickedbad" damage at close range, whilst the combat shotgun has reduced spread for slightly further afield enemies. The grenade launcher can get very creative kills through bouncing shots, and the high pitched "tap tap tap" of unseen bouncing shells filling me with dread is now permanently burned into my fight or flight reflexes! The chain gun rattles through its ammo incredibly quickly but deals impressive damage to a room full of dudes at close to medium range. Finally "Gun 8" (possibly the railgun?) is probably my favourite, firing slightly slower moving, 3D rounds that as you strafe you can see trailing through the air as you strafe; you need to anticipate where the enemy dude will be 1/4 of a second after you fire. It's worth noting that enemies give a specific noise once they're dead; very useful when their death animations generally last a long time.

The enemy design is also very good. I was immediately able to tell how dead I was going to be by their size, stance, movement speed and sound. The variety keeps you on your toes too, with quick (and zig-zagging) melee guys being just as much of a pain as half-talk dudes who fire slow but deadly blue twirly things. I'm not so sure about the scantily clad women who make orgasm noises when they fire a rocket though. If it was 1998 and I was 14 I probably would have thought it was great though.

Whilst key hunting takes a backseat in Quake 2, it gets replaced by backtracking and coloured forcefields. Several levels make up a "unit", which you can travel back and forth through freely, with multiple pathways between levels (can you tell I needed to use the strategy guide!) This gets particularly annoying on the last unit where I did the various steps very inefficiently and ended up backtracking back and forth several times. However, the backtracking is provided in a mission structure of goals within a level such as "find the Data disk" "re-programme data disk" rather than just "get to the end killing all the dudes".

This took a good 20h to complete, partly due to being a bit rubbish at it and partly due to the obtuse goals and trapsing back and forth around the palace and factory.

Graphics and Performance
3D acceleration baby! 1024 * 768 gaming! My MX440 finally has something to do! I got a steady 75fps, as you would hope for a game this old running on newer hardware. It did freeze when I took a screenshot, however, I soon filled up the built in screenshot folder (I was using FRAPS most of the time) so this problem stopped when FRAPS took over.

Everything is 3D, except for the odd landscape outside of a window. It feels like the first "modern" game I've played so far, especially with the high resolution. Weirdly I needed to set the resolution every time I loaded up the game, but all the other settings were remembered. It's almost as if it is permanently in safe mode.

The lighting effects are incredible for the time. I loved seeing my fire lighting up passageways, eerie red glows emit from gaps in walls and shadows... actually there aren't any shadows now I think about it. It's quite odd as even Doom had shadows I think!

Sound
The sound effects were reasonable (I particularly like the pew pew pew railgun) but, like the - Computer Updated! Computer Updated! Computer Updated! Computer Updated! - previous games are relatively low quality sounding now. The Grenade Laun - Computer Updated! Computer Updated! Computer Updated! Computer Updated! - cher is the exception with its wonderful tapping grenades. Especially when its the enemy firing them in groups of 5, hearing them "dink" off a wall in quick succession. Unfortunately I did not hear much of the - Computer Updated! Computer Updated! Computer Updated! Computer Updated! - music, partly because whenever you achieve a small task you get a, you guessed it, computer updated! sound effect that plays over and over again until you read your mission computer (F1), and partly because it played one song over and over again, and sometimes cut out altogether.

In fact this is the first game I've played with bugs. A couple of times when I quick load I'd find myself stuck half in the floor. Sometimes the background demo in the main menu wouldn't load (can still select all the options etc) or sometimes the music wouldn't play at all.

Was it fun?
Yes, definitely. However I have a feeling Quake 3 and UT99 will eclipse this in terms of gameplay.

Compared to blood, this game is simply a generational leap ahead. The 3D environments, enemy and audio design, control/feel of the game, everything (except the backtracking). If most people experienced this leap with, and because of, a Voodoo card, I am beginning to appreciate why everyone likes them so much (even if I think they're silly money for what they are today). I was going to go back to play Doom 2 at some point but I am not sure I can anymore...

Should you play it?
Yes

Screenshots
I took 650mb of 1024 * 768 screenshots (albeit BMP format) - that should show how nice it looks! Thanks to FRAPS I don't have to spend ages converting some obscure 90s format into a format digestible by modern PCs.

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Uh-Oh

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Semi-frequent texture bug for lava

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I love the rockets and their trails...

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...not so much when they've got my name on it.

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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby LunarG » 2019-3-05 @ 23:56

Unreal looked even more impressive back in the day, with its more colourful landscapes and use of reflective surfaces etc. And yes, for many people, Quake 2 and Unreal combined with a Voodoo 2 was their first taste of (proper) accelerated 3D. There were some earlier games that even with hardware acceleration looked pretty much identical to software rendering, sometimes worse, just with better fps, but at this point, hardware 3D started looking actually good.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby dr_st » 2019-3-06 @ 06:32

Almoststew1990 wrote:Game 11 Complete!
Thank you for your review. :cool:

Almoststew1990 wrote:Screenshots
I took 650mb of 1024 * 768 screenshots (albeit BMP format) - that should show how nice it looks! Thanks to FRAPS I don't have to spend ages converting some obscure 90s format into a format digestible by modern PCs.
Yahtzee once said that playing Quake II is about as fun as inspecting an architectural plan through a brown Quality Street wrapper. I agreed with him at first, but now, looking at your screenshots, I am not sure; I think that wrapper might have actually been red.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby rasz_pl » 2019-3-06 @ 10:20

weird, I remember Q2 weapons having a little bit more textures :o)
and yes, single player was not really fun, multi was the bomb tho, mainly due to new interesting weapons (railgun) and bigger maps.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby ynari » 2019-3-07 @ 10:51

Quake 2 was lots of fun single player at the time, but I don't think it's aged well.

Jedi Knight 2 : Outcast is alright, but Jedi Knight (Dark Forces 2) is superb. Level design is incredible, and it has an actual plot. I'm not sure if technically it breaks significant new ground (decent 3D audio apparently), but it's much more replayable than single player Quake 2.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby sf78 » 2019-3-08 @ 09:37

ynari wrote:Jedi Knight 2 : Outcast is alright, but Jedi Knight (Dark Forces 2) is superb. Level design is incredible, and it has an actual plot. I'm not sure if technically it breaks significant new ground (decent 3D audio apparently), but it's much more replayable than single player Quake 2.


That's quite interesting, I found out the exact opposite to be true. The Dark Forces 2 has very confusing level design where you end up running around the map seeking a way forward and it also has appalling live action cut scenes. This all might be due to me playing it last fall for the first time in 20 years and thinking it really hasn't aged well.
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby ynari » 2019-3-08 @ 16:44

I played it for the first time very late on (in the last decade). OK, I'll grant that the live action scenes could be better, although I have a fairly high tolerance for crap acting in games. I suppose it's true that the number of hotkeys can become a little confusing too (usually a desperate rush to use Force Speed).

The level design I never found to be confusing once I got into the designers heads. You run around for a while thinking that there's 'nowhere else to go apart from those tiny ledges that can't possib.. Oh', and then you jump on the ledges and enjoy it thoroughly.

It really benefits from the background of the Star Wars universe, whilst the Quake series isn't overly burdened by plot, and is far too keen on either shades of brown or fluorescent colours.

I find JK quite replayable, whilst Quake I bounce off these days. DOOM is still pretty decent, and I'm doing well with Half Life (which I haven't yet finished).
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Re: Project: First Person Shooter History

Postby LunarG » 2019-3-09 @ 07:49

I hope some people might shed some light on this, but I've been under the impression that the average fps player isn't really much into plot etc. It's more about full on fast paced action. Perhaps I am wrong, but that is how it has seemed to me at least.
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