Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

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Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Tanman9990 » 2019-4-08 @ 23:34

I am looking into setting up a retro pc and I am thinking about a lot of options. For example, I am looking into building a windows 98SE computer with the newest/most megaflops, etc. I found a couple a videos on the subject and read some threads. Some say the best you can do is Pentium 4, or Core 2 Duo. But then I find videos like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzm5yBYIR6Q

Which is pretty amazing such new hardware can work, but then,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFEpHEXBCbA

Ryzen 7 2700!!!

How is this possible? Will this work with intel coffee lake?

Though I am probably going to stick with the Core 2 Quad option if I go this route.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby wirerogue » 2019-4-08 @ 23:50

windows 98 will only use 1 cpu core so that is a total waste.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Tanman9990 » 2019-4-09 @ 00:04

wirerogue wrote:windows 98 will only use 1 cpu core so that is a total waste.


I know it only uses one core, but whether its a waste or not is subjective. Sure you are not using seven out of the eight cores but what if all you cared about was the having the most powerful windows 98 computer, cores, or wallet be damned?

I am just curious of how this even works on such a new system. I am probably going to stick with the core 2 quad though, they are so cheap it doesn't matter if you are wasting cores on that thing.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby cyclone3d » 2019-4-09 @ 04:09

Why an ATI x300? That is what is a waste.

7900GTX or X850XT PE would have been a much better choice.

Maybe even faster.. but I haven't actually gotten anything faster working in Windows 98SE but have a pretty good idea of how to remedy that.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby chinny22 » 2019-4-09 @ 12:42

It doesn't quite work like:
newer = more raw power = better.
its more like
newer = broken backwards compatibility.

I've got a socket 478 and GF 6800 Ultra Win98 build, the 6800 breaks compatibility with fog table and 8-bit palettized textures which I've had effect games, really I'd be better off with the previous FX series.
Any games that would benefit from the extra horespower work fine in XP, Older ones work fine on the better suited P3.

Only 2 reasons I can think of having such a modern Win98 system.
1) Lack of space so Duel booting
2) Just because.

Just as long as you know it'll be a compromise system rather then best "Win98 system ever"
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby ph4nt0m » 2019-4-09 @ 13:35

Anything newer than Pentium 4 or Athlon XP will be an overkill for Windows 98 most likely. It's possible to get a Core 2 running with a single core active or just a Celeron 420 to 450 overclocked to ~3GHz. Athlon 64 is a good choice, too. You're still limited to 512Mb of memory, give or take. No SSE2 support. No hyper-threading.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby canthearu » 2019-4-09 @ 13:41

While quite cool, the youtuber found the same issues I did with running windows 98 on computers it didn't understand:

a) It really prefers IDE over SATA. Some of the early SATA implementations let them fully emulate IDE, which often works okish with windows 98, but most will just refuse to run.
b) Have to use a sound card from the windows 98 era to get working sound.
c) Have to use a limited range of compatible graphics cards.
d) It doesn't understand how to manage power on a PCI-e based system, so if it tries to sleep or otherwise touch the power saving features of the hardware, it will crash.

It is an interesting experiment, but no substitute for more compatible hardware.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby keenmaster486 » 2019-4-09 @ 13:51

The most powerful Windows 98 computer is the one you put a compatible video and sound card into.
I flermmed the plootash just like you asked.

http://classictechnology.herokuapp.com
Vintage desktops: Pentium/MMX 200 (Win95), 286-12 (MS-DOS 5.0)
Vintage laptops: IBM Thinkpad A20m, IBM Thinkpad 560X, IBM Thinkpad 365CD
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Falcosoft » 2019-4-09 @ 13:59

You're still limited to 512Mb of memory, give or take. No SSE2 support. No hyper-threading.

True, not true, true.
SSE2 uses the same XMM registers as SSE, no additional OS support required. Since Win98SE supports SSE (can save/restore XMM registers) it automatically supports SSE2 also if the CPU supports it.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby ph4nt0m » 2019-4-09 @ 14:16

Falcosoft wrote:
You're still limited to 512Mb of memory, give or take. No SSE2 support. No hyper-threading.

True, not true, true.
SSE2 uses the same XMM registers as SSE, no additional OS support required. Since Win98SE supports SSE (can save/restore XMM registers) it automatically supports SSE2 also if the CPU supports it.

You're correct. It is Windows 95 that has no clue about XMM registers.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Tanman9990 » 2019-4-09 @ 21:47

This is off topic, but I am sorry.

I have decided to take another option and get a period correct machine and buy a Dell Optiplex GX1 off of ebay. For several reasons:

I wanted a period correct case,
It also has plenty of space for upgrading,
It's slightly easier to set up a prebuilt,
compatibility.

To be honest the only reason why I wanted power because I wanted to run 720p video on it/do modern things. but decided instead to just get a intel compute stick for that.

I feel like the pentium 3 500 mhz is pretty strong for a win98 retro pc even though you can go pentium 4/core 2 duo.

It is interesting though how far people can push this os.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Tanman9990 » 2019-4-10 @ 08:26

chinny22 wrote:It doesn't quite work like:
newer = more raw power = better.
its more like
newer = broken backwards compatibility.

I've got a socket 478 and GF 6800 Ultra Win98 build, the 6800 breaks compatibility with fog table and 8-bit palettized textures which I've had effect games, really I'd be better off with the previous FX series.
Any games that would benefit from the extra horespower work fine in XP, Older ones work fine on the better suited P3.

Only 2 reasons I can think of having such a modern Win98 system.
1) Lack of space so Duel booting
2) Just because.

Just as long as you know it'll be a compromise system rather then best "Win98 system ever"


Is 6200 Okay? or should I get Mx440? During my research FX series seems icky and the computer I just ordered only seems to have pci non express from what I can google.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby chinny22 » 2019-4-10 @ 10:07

It's not that off topic, and think you have made a good decision. P3 500 will make a fine Win98 box,

You replied just as I was.
6200 is total overkill if it would work at all.
FX were indeed crap when they were currant in the P4/WinXP era but pretty good match for a P3/Win98

You can read about Pros and Con's of the Mx440 and FX series here.
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/NVIDIA

Does the motherboard have AGP slots? that's where the decent video cards will be at.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Tanman9990 » 2019-4-10 @ 10:59

chinny22 wrote:It's not that off topic, and think you have made a good decision. P3 500 will make a fine Win98 box,

You replied just as I was.
6200 is total overkill if it would work at all.
FX were indeed crap when they were currant in the P4/WinXP era but pretty good match for a P3/Win98

You can read about Pros and Con's of the Mx440 and FX series here.
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/NVIDIA

Does the motherboard have AGP slots? that's where the decent video cards will be at.


https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all- ... _en-us.pdf

This is the specs I can find. Doesn't appear to have anything but pci and isa.

So is the FX series the best for dos support?
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby chinny22 » 2019-4-10 @ 11:34

Nope, no AGP, that sucks. You'll take a performance hit being stuck on PCI but the FX may make up for it? (Don't know got AGP myself)
The onboard ATI Rage Pro would be fine if you pair it with Voodoo 2 or PCI based Voodoo 3 or better is also an alternative to the FX but anything with voodoo in is rare and expensive.

For dos check this out, but yep FX has great dos support, add a ISA sound card and its a powerhouse of a dos PC.
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby oeuvre » 2019-4-12 @ 15:20

Image
Retro PC Intel i5 2500, 8GB RAM, AMD FirePro V3900 1GB, SSD + HD, XP/7
Main Desktop Intel i7 6700K, 32GB, AMD RX580 8GB, NVMe SSD + HD, 10
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Jo22 » 2019-4-12 @ 21:24

Also note that Ryzen had issues with Ehnanced V86 (VME), It's fixed now, what ever that means.
http://www.os2museum.com/wp/vme-fixed-on-amd-ryzen/
http://www.rcollins.org/articles/vme1/
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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby dirkmirk » 2019-4-12 @ 21:37

But why what?

FX5500 is a good choice for a PCI system, I wouldnt go any newer like a 6200 as I found compatibility problems in windows 98se.

ITs a nice idea but even testing cards up to 2004 I gave up and just use windows XP, 98 really is a crap os for the newer hardware that it theoretical supports.

You might even have better luck with a Geforce 2MX/440MX in PCI form for windows 98, its not really worth the headache IMO.

To sum it up Win98 really is best left to hardware of the time.
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby oeuvre » 2019-4-13 @ 02:57

just cause you can doesn't mean you should...
Retro PC Intel i5 2500, 8GB RAM, AMD FirePro V3900 1GB, SSD + HD, XP/7
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Re: Ryzen 7 most powerful windows 98 computer?

Postby Tanman9990 » 2019-4-13 @ 08:47

oeuvre wrote:just cause you can doesn't mean you should...


I have no idea what you are talking about/to whom?

Are you saying I should have used older hardware? because I am, since in earlier posts in this thread I just decided to go with older hardware.

Are you saying I should have used the ryzen system?

Are you saying I should not have used the FX card?
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