P3 should be fine to play your dos games from within windows, wouldn't call it a deal breaker
Ok so you cant mess around with hardware but plug a keyboard/mouse/screen into it and then you have a retro machine that takes up no space and just as good 90% of the time.

Tip from someone who's duel booted since the lat 90's. Win98 partition should be fine with 2GB and ever needed more then 4GB even with loads of app's installed.
Install games, data, etc to a data partition that way if/when you do need to reinstall the OS you don't have to reinstall EVERYTHING, not all but most games wont notice it's a fresh install.

I'm not really an expert on old hardware but yes, a P3 is a solid performer for most games from what I could gather, only issue would be with some games that are speed sensitive (but nothing that SETMul can't take care of right? 😀).

I haven't quite decided what kind of games I'd run on this, the only true deal-breaker about this machine is that the sound doesn't seems to work under DOS (I heard that ESS didn't make DOS drivers for their Allegro chips) but I'm sure I'll figure out somethin'

Also thanks for the tip about the common data partition, I'll keep that in mind when I'll replace the hard drive 😀

Never had an Omnibook but know there's a bit of a cult following for them. Are they really that good?

Yeah, your machine is kinda weird, but not in a bad way. The Omnibooks are like HP's version of ThinkPads - better grade of quality versus their Pavilions, and features some nice designs...the old school Omnibook 800CTs are good competitors against Toshiba Librettos. They eventually gave way to the EliteBook series, which are very good machines - those are probably better Thinkpads than the recent ThinkPads.

Several things specific about that Omnibook:

a) Back then the HP Omnibook XE3s almost always have a Pavilion 5000 series cousin. It's similar to what Dell was doing when selling their Latitude C6xx/8xxs and their Inspiron 4x00/8x00 series. They are both not entirely interchangeable, but close enough to swap internal parts. Your GC/XE3C should be about the same in terms of internals as the Pavilion N53xx series - useful info if you need a cheap parts donor.

b) The XE3Cs are Intel 440ZX/Coppermine P3 based machines. The 440ZX are a lower power/mobile version of the very popular 440BX chipset, and supports up to 256MB per RAM slot, provided that they are PC100 compatible AND uses 16MB chips, typically 8 on each side of the DIMM unit. Most laptops from this vintage come with 1 or 2 slots (256 or 512MB max), and some has RAM already soldered onto the chassis (so you'll see weird numbers like 320 or 384MB max on those oldies). This dictates the max RAM count on those machines. The 16 chip/256MB DIMM is what the 440 guys on retro forums refer to as "16 chip, or low density memory" - if you bought the wrong type of memory for the machine (it uses 32MB or 8 chip RAM designs), you can't use it - either the RAM count will not report correctly (512MB installed but only 256MB visible) or the machine won't boot altogether. Not every 2 slot, 440 based laptop will let you go to 512MB of RAM. The 440MX chipset for subnotebooks were notorious for their 256MB max RAM ceiling, which were found in Thinkpad 240X/Zs, Sony Vaio SRs and Toshiba Proteges 3440/3480CTs.

c) HP seemed to have purged the old service manuals from their web server, but copies are cached on manualslib via https://www.manualslib.com/manual/788711/Hp-O … Xe3.html#manual - that can be very useful if you ever need to strip/clean the machine.

d) HP offered a very narrow upgrade path for the video chipset - if your machine comes with a 4MB SavageIX, you can upgrade it to an 8MB variant by swapping out the daughtercard containing the GPU (there's 2 variants, one for XGA (F2300-60906) and one for SXGA+ ()) - in general you are required to flip some dip switches on the motherboard afterwards to communicate changes to the video subsystem..

e) As for getting Win98 to work? Well, there's a little bit of a cheat:
- If you have another Win98 machine, get into that machine, and use it to format the drive (attached as a secondary device) as fat32, make it bootable (fdisk option) and do a system disk (format d: /s). The drive should now be able to boot into DOS/Win98 command line. Then copy the Win98 directory of your typical Windows 98 ISO to the bootable drive . Move the drive back into the XE3C and boot off it. Once you boot it off, go to c:\win98 and run setup.exe.
If you use an SD-to-IDE or an mSATA-to-IDE adapter, this should be relatively easy task.
- If you don't, ask someone to hook you up with a clonezilla image off a working machine.

f) I don't see any references to an RTC battery, but if the photo of the XE3C motherboard here tells me anything, there looks to be some kind of RTC battery covered under the yellow cellophane near the RAM slots. It might also be a soldered CR2025/2032 clone on the board itself. if you can, solder that garbage off and put a real battery holder in.

oeuvre wrote:

Never had an Omnibook but know there's a bit of a cult following for them. Are they really that good?

They feel quite solid, so that's certain, the keyboard doesn't feel that "mushy" (unlike the one on my Armada 1700 which feels like massaging fruit cake 😵) so that's always a plus.

As for the specs... This is where things get complicated: there are a lot of variations of the Omnibook XE3, I have the GC version (w/ a S3 Savage IX), but there was also a version with AMD CPUs, and another one that had later P3 CPUs but with Intel GMA graphics... So it's a bit of a mess to know which one is which.

So in the end I can say it's good 😀 but forget DOS gaming with this one, unless someone finds a way to make the ESS Allegro work under DOS.

@Ragefury
I already have W98 and Win2k installed and running nicely so that's a thing less to care of.

As for the RAM, it was just a bug, I reseated the RAM sticks (2x128mB) and it now shows 256mB correctly, also it seems that my XE3 doesn't have the 440ZX chipset (I think mine has the BX chipset), I'll try upping the RAM to 2x256mB.

I think I already have the 8mb Savage already, but I'll need to check this to be sure, I'll need to do some benches to be sure how capable it'll be.

Also kudos for the service manual it's going to be very useful. Bookmarked.

Vynix wrote:

They feel quite solid, so that's certain, the keyboard doesn't feel that "mushy" (unlike the one on my Armada 1700 which feels l […]
Show full quote

oeuvre wrote:

Never had an Omnibook but know there's a bit of a cult following for them. Are they really that good?

They feel quite solid, so that's certain, the keyboard doesn't feel that "mushy" (unlike the one on my Armada 1700 which feels like massaging fruit cake 😵) so that's always a plus.

As for the specs... This is where things get complicated: there are a lot of variations of the Omnibook XE3, I have the GC version (w/ a S3 Savage IX), but there was also a version with AMD CPUs, and another one that had later P3 CPUs but with Intel GMA graphics... So it's a bit of a mess to know which one is which.

So in the end I can say it's good 😀 but forget DOS gaming with this one, unless someone finds a way to make the ESS Allegro work under DOS.

@Ragefury
I already have W98 and Win2k installed and running nicely so that's a thing less to care of.

As for the RAM, it was just a bug, I reseated the RAM sticks (2x128mB) and it now shows 256mB correctly, also it seems that my XE3 doesn't have the 440ZX chipset (I think mine has the BX chipset), I'll try upping the RAM to 2x256mB.

I think I already have the 8mb Savage already, but I'll need to check this to be sure, I'll need to do some benches to be sure how capable it'll be.

Also kudos for the service manual it's going to be very useful. Bookmarked.

You're welcome - your GC definitely have a 440ZX (they use the same drivers and appears on device managers as the 440BX) - how do I know?
I got the XE3 Corporate Evaulator's guide for the GF series here -> http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/lpi05588.pdf, which tells me everything I need to know about the series. The GD and GE models are AMD Athlon4 powered machines with Trident CyberbladeXP GPUs (I am not even sure how they perform compared to the S3 SavageIX - my guess is...not very well indeed), and the GFs are Tualatin P3/Intel 830GM integrated graphics based (nothing worse than a warmed over Intel Starfighter design parked up on the northbridge). Out of the series I would say that the GC is probably the most rounded of all 3 - decent (not great) GPU, "fast enough" CPU, and a soundchip that should work in DOS.
On a similar 850 MHz Thinkpad T21 I am averaging 32fps on UT99 GotY edition (800x600 on MeTal) and about 25-28 on Q3A (800x600 on OpenGL) - you should expect similar numbers on your machine in Win98.

Now, regarding that ESS Maestro3i, try the old Dell Inspiron 4000 Win95/98 drivers here -> https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/dr … driverid=r24320

They use the same exact Maestro 3i audio chipset and its datasheet promises at least Soundblaster Pro support. The archive should include the Win98 VxD drivers and the DOS/realmode essaudio.sys and essaudio.com within.

TBH I was an avid ThinkPad user for years and then since the *40 series I've switched to EliteBooks. Haven't looked back since.

I'll give that a shot soon enough, but now that you mention it, I've looked on AIDA32 and it reports something among the lines of "440BX/ZX" so that might be it.

Take a look for yourself, I've attached a Aida report.

@oeuvre
Tis sad to see what ThinkPads became, I had a L540 and this thing just... Fell apart to the slightest touch... Really. Unfortunately this L540 also fell victim to the ThinkPad "White screen of Death" symptom, the screen only displays pure white... And it seems to be a recurring issue not just on the L540.

oeuvre wrote:

TBH I was an avid ThinkPad user for years and then since the *40 series I've switched to EliteBooks. Haven't looked back since.

Oh, I have been using thinkpads since I daily drove a Celeron powered Thinkpad 240 going back to 1999 (even had the big extended battery and 320MB of RAM for it) - and frankly, i haven't been thrilled with them for a while...even the good classic ones had their design faults.
My old 560 was famous for a boneheaded design that allows chassis flex over time to crack solder joints on the DC/battery power board (so when you pick it up the wrong way the freaking thing shuts off, and a repair means replacing the motherboard. The entire T3x and T4x series were famous for solder joint failures (they were made right after the RoHS lead-free regulations kick in and the solders they use will fail over time, causing all sorts of issues like RAM slots failing), and the X31/32 were famous for surface mounting 3 big chips in a row (and one under) without bracing so picking them up in a certain way will eventually kill them over a period of time - I went through 3 motherboards with IBM / Lenovo over 4 years thanks to that one (the warranty extension paid for itself many times over). I eventually figured out what was wrong and bought an extended battery underneath to stiffen the chassis. Still, I love that X31, possibly one of the best Thinkpads they've ever made. This T21 have power circuit issues and might need more work down the line.

The T440/X240s were probably a ThinkPad design low-point - they got rid of a RAM slot so there's only one in the systems going forward? On a workhorse machine? Screw that.

Those EliteBooks are great (I love my 2560p and my 2170p), but they are not nearly as bad-assed as the classic Darth Vader lunch-tray look of the bezeled ThinkPads.

The new T490 has 8 or 16GB soldered and another slot free. The X390 and T490s have soldered RAM and WiFi.

oeuvre wrote:

The new T490 has 8 or 16GB soldered and another slot free. The X390 and T490s have soldered RAM and WiFi.

Yeah, I have an X1 Carbon Gen6 (20KH series) from work - the RAM is all soldered (all 16GB of it) - at least the WiFi and (NVMe) SSD is not soldered on like those freaking Touchbar MacBook Pros. Frankly, if I didn't pay for the Lenovo EZServ support I would've been freaking pissed.

Looking at the motherboard now (I tore it apart yesterday, a connector became loose and would cause issues), I couldn't find a CMOS battery on the mobo, and even without the laptop's battery in, it still retained the BIOS settings, so there must be some kind of super capacitor (like on the original Xbox) or some kind of non-volatile memory that the settings get saved to when the machine shuts down... Either way it's very strange.

Also looking at the RAM I do have two 128mb modules, but one is a Infineon PC-133 module while the other is a PC-100 module, so I guess it's just a matter of finding two PC-100 256mb modules then? (assuming the PC-133 module ran at PC-100 speeds...)

Vynix wrote:

Looking at the motherboard now (I tore it apart yesterday, a connector became loose and would cause issues), I couldn't find a CMOS battery on the mobo, and even without the laptop's battery in, it still retained the BIOS settings, so there must be some kind of super capacitor (like on the original Xbox) or some kind of non-volatile memory that the settings get saved to when the machine shuts down... Either way it's very strange.

Also looking at the RAM I do have two 128mb modules, but one is a Infineon PC-133 module while the other is a PC-100 module, so I guess it's just a matter of finding two PC-100 256mb modules then? (assuming the PC-133 module ran at PC-100 speeds...)

Well, the settings usually gets written to an EEPROM, it's the current time that is retained via a CR2025/2032 (or its soldered down lithium rechargeable equivalent). Remember the photo I posted up top? Look at that yellow cellophane covered area near the RAM slots...does that look like a battery to you?

When it comes to the RAM, remember that you need something that is 16 chip and PC100, something like this would do just fine -> https://www.ebay.com/itm/392085393835
I would not buy PC133 RAM unless you have a piece of PC100 that you can mix-and-match - the PC100 RAM would force the other memory slot to run at PC100 speeds.

From the size of that cell, I think it's an ML1220, which is a rechargeable lithium cell and will slowly trickle charge while the battery is powered. If it's working now after charging up the laptop, it will likely run for many more years yet. The rechargeable lithium cells I've found in laptops are still going strong after 20 years so there's usually no need to replace them 😀

@Rage
I haven't seen this "yellow cellophane covered" thing on mine (by looking in the RAM trapdoor), but if it's where the battery is, this might be problematic the day I'll have to replace it. Unless the cellophane was missing on my unit...
By the way, yes it's definitely a ZX chipset, so that's settled then.

@Thermalwrong
Yes it started retaining settings after I let the laptop plugged in for roughly 48 hours, ever since I haven't had the "CMOS BATTERY FAILED" message.

I might as well get a replacement battery for it, what's the point of a laptop if you can't run it without sector power?

Vynix wrote:

@Rage
I haven't seen this "yellow cellophane covered" thing on mine (by looking in the RAM trapdoor), but if it's where the battery is, this might be problematic the day I'll have to replace it. Unless the cellophane was missing on my unit...
By the way, yes it's definitely a ZX chipset, so that's settled then.

Eh, you don't see that particular item on the board itself? The yellow cellophane can be missing or replaced by something else (like regular tape).

Let's see. Did anyone do a teardown of a GC? Oh yes, yes there is. Here's one -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUjk3exwAK8
If you go to ~2:00 on the video you'll see the clock battery displayed, and yes, that looks like an ML1220 variant. Like I've said before, replace it with a holder and a regular rechargeable battery if you have the time, there are tons of videos on how to desolder a battery off a board and replacing them...a ~20 year old lithium ion battery is probably long gone and won't do you much good, especially if you don't plan to buy a full main battery to replace the one that you have.

No I meant that I have not seen that yellow tape thing, but I indeed saw the CMOS battery (and I tested it on my board, it's still holding up a good charge, I let the laptop sit unplugged last week and when testing it yesterday, the CMOS battery was still charged). But it's due for a replacement anyways, I'll probably solder some wires and put a holder (ML1220s are the same shape as a CR2032, right?) where it can be easily accessed, so if I have to swap it, I won't have to tear apart this thing (and belive me or not, it's hard to tear it down without further cracking the plastics, it was really unnerving).

As for the main battery, I might just rebuild it and swap the cells for equivalent ones, right now I'm debating whether or not I should.

Hello! I have an OmniBook XE3-GC with 2x64mb of RAM. I would like to put 2x256mb, is it possible? I tried to install some that I had, but the screen didn't turn on. What RAM do you have? what model? thank you