VOGONS


First post, by ildonaldo

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Due to Covid-19 I advanced some of my retro projects that I've planned for the next winter season 😉

Please find here my 1998 rebuild:
Board: MSI MS6119 Ver. 1.1 (1998)
CPU: Pentium II, 400 450 MHz (upgade info see below)
RAM: 128MB, Mo SDRAM PC100, Hyundai GMM26416233ENT
2D-Grafik: Matrox G200A, 8MB (1998)
3D-Grafik: SLI 2x Voodoo 2, Creative Labs CT6670, 2x12MB (1998)
Sound: SB 128 PCI, CT4700 (1998)
HDD: 6,4gb IDE, IBM DTTA-350640 (1998)
ODD: DSR-520H DVD-ROM (5,2X/32X), DVS Korea Co. (Feb. 1999)
FDD: 1.44 MB 3.5", D359T7, Newtronics Mitsumi
Case: NoName ATX (ca. 199x)
PSU: ATX 380W, Seasonic SS-380GB Active PFC F3
OS: Windows 98SE (incl. Updates)

Honestly, this isn't my most favoured Retro-build because I've never got friends with 3dfx before the Voodoo 3 as single card solution came out.
There was always, due to the Loop-through, this loss in video quality.
Working in grapic business, despite of the good 3D performace, this was always a no go for me.

best wishes & stay well

ildonaldo

Here some pictures ...

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Rear
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Hardware installed
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Last edited by ildonaldo on 2020-10-02, 15:49. Edited 1 time in total.

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 1 of 19, by Joseph_Joestar

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That looks awesome, except for the SB128. It's a bad card overall, with software EAX and some of the worst FM Synthesis in existence.

The Sound Blaster Live was released in late '98 so you can use one of those and still stay period-correct. It's a huge improvement over the SB128 in all aspects.

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 3 of 19, by wirerogue

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i like it.
i would definitely utilize the front fan mount. looks like an 80mm.
not sure exactly what seasonic power supply that is but, your entire system is only going to draw about 100 watts so that psu fan might not even turn on.

AEAVEwk.png

Reply 6 of 19, by ildonaldo

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wirerogue wrote on 2020-06-11, 23:02:

not sure exactly what seasonic power supply that is but, your entire system is only going to draw about 100 watts so that psu fan might not even turn on.

The PSU was just at hand when I built it.
I always try (if possible and not too costly) to stay in period with the hardware except for the PSU - I wouldn't like to use one of this firecrackers that were sold back then.

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 7 of 19, by ildonaldo

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foil_fresh wrote on 2020-06-12, 05:06:

The SB128 might be a bad FM card but it's General MIDI from within windows is decent so it's not too awful. I've had crystal sound cards that suck doing everything 😜

Thank you, the card is only intended for windows.
If I play games that need OPL3 support than I use either my 486 or the Pentium clone.

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 8 of 19, by Joseph_Joestar

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foil_fresh wrote on 2020-06-12, 05:06:

The SB128 might be a bad FM card but it's General MIDI from within windows is decent so it's not too awful. I've had crystal sound cards that suck doing everything 😜

Those ECW sets that the SB128 uses for General MIDI sound very bland to me, even with the 8 MB version. With a SBLive, you can use proper soundfonts and get something that sounds reasonably close to a Roland SC-55.

Other than that, the software EAX that the SB128 uses sounds different from the hardware EAX on a SBLive. The software EAX also taxes the CPU more which can make a difference in demanding games. Source: I own both cards and have used the SB128 for 5 years during my youth.

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 9 of 19, by ildonaldo

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-06-11, 20:05:

The Sound Blaster Live was released in late '98 so you can use one of those and still stay period-correct. It's a huge improvement over the SB128 in all aspects.

Which model ( CTxxxx) are you referring to?
If I go on the hunt I'd like to know which pray to look for 😀

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 10 of 19, by Joseph_Joestar

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ildonaldo wrote on 2020-06-12, 10:28:

Which model ( CTxxxx) are you referring to?
If I go on the hunt I'd like to know which pray to look for 😀

If I remember correctly, the original SBLive (CT4620) was released in August of 1998 (see this review) while the Value version (CT4670) came out in October of the same year.

You might want to double check those model numbers with other people to be sure. Also, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_Live!#Models

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 11 of 19, by chinny22

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Jan 98 when when I got my first PC , up till then I was using the family DX2/66

Had a $3000 AUD budget and this is what I got:
P2 400
64MB Ram
Onboard SB64 PCI
10GB HDD
32x CD-ROM

A friend strongly recommended upgrading to the graphics to a 16MB TNT. It was cheaper then going Voodoo 2
a SB Live was high on my want list but didn't get the Live! value till the following year.

So depending on what other systems you ave planned the 128 PCI may still be a more correct choice, you do miss out on EAX though.

Reply 12 of 19, by ildonaldo

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I have been able to get a CT4620 with the CT4660 extension board cheap.
It should arrive in a few days.

And according to soundblaster.com it should be in period for my 1998 build.

Last edited by ildonaldo on 2020-06-18, 05:04. Edited 1 time in total.

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 13 of 19, by Joseph_Joestar

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ildonaldo wrote on 2020-06-17, 15:13:

I have been able to get a CT4620 with the CT4660 extension board cheap.

Very nice! I love the gold plated connectors on that model.

If you want to play around with soundfonts in DOS games, try using the Audigy drivers on it.

Using Audigy drivers with a Sound Blaster Live
Installing DOS drivers on an Audigy2 ZS
OPL3 vs. ESFM vs. CQM vs. SBLive
OPTi 82C930 review

Reply 15 of 19, by ildonaldo

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Finally I've found some time to update the Hardware with the new Soundcard, PSU and a 80mm case fan.
Everything runs fine 😀

Board: MSI MS6119 Ver. 1.1 (1998)
CPU: Pentium II, 400 450MHz, with Intel cooler (1998)
RAM: 128MB, Mo SDRAM PC100, Hyundai GMM26416233ENT
2D-Grafik: Matrox G200A, 8MB (1998)
3D-Grafik: SLI 2x Voodoo 2, Creative Labs CT6670, 2x12MB (1998)
Sound: Sound Blaster Live! Gold CT4620 & CT4660, PCI (1998)
HDD: 6,4gb IDE, IBM DTTA-350640 (1998)
ODD: DSR-520H DVD-ROM (5,2X/32X), DVS Korea Co. (Feb. 1999)
FDD: 1.44 MB 3.5", D359T7, Newtronics Mitsumi
Case: NoName ATX (ca. 199x)
Case fan: 1x 80mm Lüfter (Cooler Master A8025-21CB-3BN-P1)
PSU: be quiet! PURE POWER BQT L7-350W ATX
OS: Windows 98SE (incl. Updates)

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CT4620 & CT4660
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Updated HW
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Last edited by ildonaldo on 2020-10-02, 16:09. Edited 1 time in total.

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 16 of 19, by matze79

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foil_fresh wrote on 2020-06-12, 05:06:

The SB128 might be a bad FM card but it's General MIDI from within windows is decent so it's not too awful. I've had crystal sound cards that suck doing everything 😜

8mb gm Bank also works in plain dos

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 17 of 19, by ildonaldo

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recently I've got a Pentium 2 450 MHz along with a Gigabyte GA-6BXC board cheap.
The board was crap (needs some new capacitors first) but the CPU works fine on the MS6119.

I've now upgraded the machine to max the '98 Pentium II Power 😀

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Pentium II 450 Mhz (Sellers photo)
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For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.

Reply 18 of 19, by gex85

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Yeah, these P2-450 chips are hard to find at a decent price. It took me quite a few months (or even years) to find one for my 1998 build, they show up very rarely. A few weeks ago I got lucky again and found a second one, bundled with an interesting Siemens Nixdorf motherboard.

I like how clean your build looks, and the case with its blue accent looks very nice, too. 👍
But the way the power supply is mounted above the CPU area would be a no-go for me, I always hated that mounting style...

1992 - i486DX2-66 // 1997 - P1-233 MMX // 1998 - P2-350 // 2000 - P3-650 // 2001 - Athlon 1400 // 2003 - Athlon XP 3200+ // 2008 - Xeon E5450 // 2015 - Xeon E3-1240v5

Reply 19 of 19, by ildonaldo

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gex85 wrote on 2020-10-04, 15:37:

It took me quite a few months (or even years) to find one

Yes they are hard to get - had to wait almost a year to get one for a reasonable price.

gex85 wrote on 2020-10-04, 15:37:

... I always hated that mounting style...

Me too, it always gets in the way with larger CPU coolers.
But for the CPU generation up to Pentium II it works fine.

For my builds it's "no CF-disks, no Floppy emulators, no modern cases etc.", only the real and authentic stuff whenever possible/sensible/affordable.