At least it has a PCI bus, I don't know if it can be exposed to plug a Voodoo.

ockiller wrote on 2022-12-13, 17:05:

At least it has a PCI bus, I don't know if it can be exposed to plug a Voodoo.

Not without custom building the SOM. The ISA bus alone takes up a side and a half of the SOM, so it's either/or situation. There is another SOM that does have only the PCI bus exposed, but the right way would be to put it into the SOM itself.

If we ever were to get a new SOM built, we could upgrade the existing weeCee's, and not have to lose the ISA. I've bugged rasteri about doing a VSA-100 based custom SOM, but it's very advanced stuff and I don't think we're going to see a hobbyist version of it anytime soon. Would be a hell of a thing to solder together, much more likely to need a partnership with ICOP -- which rasteri looked into but they didn't seem too interested. Sucks because they are losing out on an entire market. Maybe we should go find their marketing manager and butter them up?

If we don't mind something bigger, some Vortex86 single board computers seems to have a PC/104+ connector (same as PC/104 / ISA but for PCI) where we can solder pins. I don't know if it's functional. If it is, then it's the same story again, like as making a PCI adapter to plug any existing PCI card. It's not very elegant, but it's something. Idea for a 3D BigCee? 😁

ockiller wrote on 2022-12-13, 18:23:

If we don't mind something bigger, some Vortex86 single board computers seems to have a PC/104+ connector (same as PC/104 / ISA but for PCI) where we can solder pins. I don't know if it's functional. If it is, then it's the same story again, like as making a PCI adapter to plug any existing PCI card. It's not very elegant, but it's something. Idea for a 3D BigCee? 😁

That would be the wee'86, which rasteri did a video about before doing the weeCee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBsv-jRiIT8

So, SN11 got snatched up for 760 in the end, and then after SN15 immediately got snatched up for 800. SN16 is still up and SN17, which I just finished, is now up as well.

Duffman is still waiting on his shipment, and the delay is quite substantial at this point. Big notice again for anyone in western parts of Australia.

In other news, I was able to secure Adrian's Digital Basement mailing address and am able to get SN14 out to him sometime soon. Next weeCee we sell likely.

I got two boxes to build now and then gotta get started on SN18. Going up to SN21, so 4 more to go -- using the new v0.4 boards that don't require bodge wiring anymore THANK YOU RASTERI OMG. I'm trying to get them out a new one a day this week before Xmas in hopes that maybe somebody can get theirs to enjoy over the holiday break.

Big thank you to everyone who has been chiming in!

@Nachtrave

What were the bodge wires being used for in the earlier revision?

Duffman wrote on 2022-12-14, 00:50:

@Nachtrave

What were the bodge wires being used for in the earlier revision?

Reset/power LED, and battery. Just means I don't have to do those anymore, I can just use a standard connector. Well, mostly, the plastic tab thingie puts it a little higher than it can go, but remove that and it fits. Just barely.

Still, a step up. Makes it less messy on my end, but otherwise it's the exact same board.

Basically I don't have to sell things that look like they were hot-wired. :3 Not that they aren't functional -- the green stuff on top is actually solder mask, hardens with UV light and really great for keeping things in place/insulating them.

The whole "v0.4" is kind of a misnomer I guess. It isn't anymore v0.4 of it than MuOn's is.

@Nachtrave

Ah I see, Thanks for the explanation.

Did reserving IRQ 14 and 15 for ISA make any difference? It probably won't but you never know.

Kind of an outsider looking in. Been into the scene of retrogaming since the days of emulation and minis, and would have a MiSTer under more favorable conditions. I first caught on to rasteri's weeCee86 project on youtube and was impressed. My personal ideal, given the apt money and motivation, would be a box that could run everything from early DOS through the early 2000s (circa Win98). I have a question or two.

1) What would be the maximum conceivable legacy CPU equivalent (i. e. Pentium I, MMX, II/III) achievable via Vortex86 boards?
2) What 3d card features/functions from the Win98 era are missing and need to be emulated for certain games to be run? There was at least one function I came across but can't remember the name or where I saw it.

azul120 wrote on 2022-12-15, 22:39:

1) What would be the maximum conceivable legacy CPU equivalent (i. e. Pentium I, MMX, II/III) achievable via Vortex86 boards?

The fastest vortex86 chips might be about the same as a 500-600MHz Pentium 2/3, approximately speaking

2) What 3d card features/functions from the Win98 era are missing and need to be emulated for certain games to be run? There was at least one function I came across but can't remember the name or where I saw it.

None of the Vortex86 boards have any 3D acceleration. If you want 3D you'll have to find a vortex board with a PCI slot and add something like a Voodoo2.

Honestly Vortex86 boards are GREAT for DOS games, but none of them are really suited for Windows gaming. I'd want something a good deal more powerful, I know there are industrial boards with Tualatins for example

I see. Thanks for the answer!

Given their size profile and inevitably diminishing supply, I would eventually hope for a FPGA (or even Pi if that's possible) based recreation of Win98 era graphics cards such as Voodoo2.

I believe when Muon did his testing benchmarks, he came out to a max perf of that of a Pentium 2 233 MMX.

There are also SOMs that have a 1GHz processor - I think the Vortex86DX3 for example. I'd have to look up exact specs again. Other SOMs have PCI, but you lose your ISA since the bus lines take up one and a half sides of the SOM, so only enough room for ISA or PCI, not both.

And yeah, sadly the 3D acceleration is a missing part of it all. That being said, 800MHz isn't something to shy about - the software rendering was honestly super playable. There was also some work above being done with a 3D software driver to hopefully get more games to work -- but I haven't been keeping up, apologies.

I've been so busy with making weeCee's. Just got SN18 out the door, now on to SN19. SN16 is still up on eBay, 2 days to go. I just got SN21 accounted for from a Patreon so only two more are up for grabs beyond 16.

Duffman wrote on 2022-12-14, 03:45:

@Nachtrave

Ah I see, Thanks for the explanation.

Did reserving IRQ 14 and 15 for ISA make any difference? It probably won't but you never know.

Okay, finally plugged in SN3 I have sitting here for my brother, and went through with reserving IRQ 14/15.

Valiant attempt, but looks like same issue is present - I made sure to also try removing the device, restarting, letting it refind device, reinstall driver, restart, and still in compatibility mode with yellow exclamation marks next to IDE controller as before. You might be onto something with those settings, alas.

@Nachtrave

Ah well, Thanks for trying that.

edit:
Auspost is saying next week now for delivery.

azul120 wrote on 2022-12-15, 22:39:

Kind of an outsider looking in. Been into the scene of retrogaming since the days of emulation and minis, and would have a MiSTer under more favorable conditions. I first caught on to rasteri's weeCee86 project on youtube and was impressed. My personal ideal, given the apt money and motivation, would be a box that could run everything from early DOS through the early 2000s (circa Win98). I have a question or two.

1) What would be the maximum conceivable legacy CPU equivalent (i. e. Pentium I, MMX, II/III) achievable via Vortex86 boards?
2) What 3d card features/functions from the Win98 era are missing and need to be emulated for certain games to be run? There was at least one function I came across but can't remember the name or where I saw it.

MiSTer FPGA and WeeCee are two things that do not compete. I have both toys at home and I know that Win95 and Win 98 are not at all suitable for MiSTer. Even Win 98 is horribly slow there. Plus, with MiSTer, I'm doing more troubleshooting than playing 🙁. WeeCee is really great for the Win98 era! Playing games like Destruction Derby 2 is great on this machine. If in time there was 3D support this machine would have no competition in the DOS/WIN world.

Vridek wrote on 2022-12-16, 09:30:

MiSTer FPGA and WeeCee are two things that do not compete. I have both toys at home and I know that Win95 and Win 98 are not at all suitable for MiSTer. Even Win 98 is horribly slow there. Plus, with MiSTer, I'm doing more troubleshooting than playing 🙁. WeeCee is really great for the Win98 era! Playing games like Destruction Derby 2 is great on this machine. If in time there was 3D support this machine would have no competition in the DOS/WIN world.

Here here! I feel that, too. Who knows, maybe rasteri develops a replacement SOM with the same pinout that is an easy upgrade. We can dream.

I've got another idea if someone wants to try it out.

Look for
IDENoSerialize
in the Windows 98 registry and set it to 0

The rationale for this is that microSD cards I'm reasonably sure are a serialized type of flash whereas the older Compact Flash is parallelized flash.
Since Compact Flash was confirmed to be working on the Vortex86DX storage controller by Paul_V I think changing this value might get the microSD slot working.

So if anyone wants to try it out please give it a go.

Duffman wrote on 2022-12-17, 01:22:

I've got another idea if someone wants to try it out. […]
Show full quote

I've got another idea if someone wants to try it out.

Look for
IDENoSerialize
in the Windows 98 registry and set it to 0

The rationale for this is that microSD cards I'm reasonably sure are a serialized type of flash whereas the older Compact Flash is parallelized flash.
Since Compact Flash was confirmed to be working on the Vortex86DX storage controller by Paul_V I think changing this value might get the microSD slot working.

So if anyone wants to try it out please give it a go.

More precise instructions on what to do in the registries? 😀

Vridek wrote on 2022-12-17, 19:19:

More precise instructions on what to do in the registries? 😀

Do a search of your registry for a key called IDENoSerialize - if it exists and it's value is 1 set it to 0

Vridek wrote on 2022-12-16, 09:30:

azul120 wrote on 2022-12-15, 22:39:

Kind of an outsider looking in. Been into the scene of retrogaming since the days of emulation and minis, and would have a MiSTer under more favorable conditions. I first caught on to rasteri's weeCee86 project on youtube and was impressed. My personal ideal, given the apt money and motivation, would be a box that could run everything from early DOS through the early 2000s (circa Win98). I have a question or two.

1) What would be the maximum conceivable legacy CPU equivalent (i. e. Pentium I, MMX, II/III) achievable via Vortex86 boards?
2) What 3d card features/functions from the Win98 era are missing and need to be emulated for certain games to be run? There was at least one function I came across but can't remember the name or where I saw it.

MiSTer FPGA and WeeCee are two things that do not compete. I have both toys at home and I know that Win95 and Win 98 are not at all suitable for MiSTer. Even Win 98 is horribly slow there. Plus, with MiSTer, I'm doing more troubleshooting than playing 🙁. WeeCee is really great for the Win98 era! Playing games like Destruction Derby 2 is great on this machine. If in time there was 3D support this machine would have no competition in the DOS/WIN world.

I know MiSTer and weeCee are not comparable, nor would I say they are in competition. (Nor would I say the same of the two and emulation; the latter has done wonders in helping the former!)

I only brought the former up as an example of a mini box, cycle accurate alternative to PC emulation.

weeCee meanwhile is a mini box recreation of near identical parts. I'm definitely looking forward to the time there will be a smaller answer to the 3d cards of the era for full compatibility. (The pi has been used as a MT32 alternative via MT32 pi, though I'm not saying in the slightest that I'd expect such a thing to emulate turn of the millennium gfx cards.)