VOGONS


First post, by harryshuman

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This is first part of my odyssey to build the killer Windows 98 PC. I Was finally able to cram my killer Windows 98 build into a modern small form factor case.

The star of the show is SFF Time P-ATX v2 case. The selection was clear, it is the only case small case that supports full-ATX mother boards. The main challenge was being able to cram both a video card and a sound card into the 2 remaining card slots (3rd is blocked by mobo). This results in the biggest challenge yet: finding a PCI (32-bit) riser that can actually fit. After some months of searching I was able to find the required part (I believe it was used on some pre-build industrial PCs, and utilizes 2 PCB boards connected by 2 tiny IDE-like cables). No other old school PCI riser available on the market will fit without extremely modification (lots of cutting and soldering). Originally the case was meant to be used with a single 2-slot device, but because of the 2 risers, I effectively required 2.5 slots. since the risers were sandwiched by two cards. The PCI-E rises is a high quality, so I doubt it will be affected by being in contact with the GPU's backplate. Both risers however create a sort of spring (especially the PCI-E one that's covered in thick rubber) that pushes both cards apart.

I utilized nylon mobo standoffs of variable sizes to provide rigidity points (mobo->sound card, sound card->video card). The PCI riser fits just barely, but it does create an extra support point. The sound card also has minor support from the bottom, where I utilized nylon standoffs and screw heads to create a rail of sorts (it can slide which is ok, it releases tension, but not move back and forth is is important when using the back ports). The video card's PCI-E riser comes with special standoffs that can be screwed into the case, so the GPU sits very rigidly.

Since the old fan on the video card sounds like a Cessna taking off, I will remove it and the plastic cover with Nvidia logo, leaving the stock heatsinks but attach a 3D-printed shield with low-noise extra thin 120mm fan attached to it. It will provide sufficient airflow and practically remove any noise (already tested). The motherboard also features added standoffs for a 3D-printed shield as well (I already installed them to take measurements). The case also comes with the ability to install standoffs on the side, so I plan to replace the fault metal side with a glass cover. Having it on the stand offs will increase clearance, and will improve cooling. The case fits the default 775 Intel fan perfectly, the plan is to replace it with 3rd party low profile 775 cooler. Temperatures aren't an issue under synthetic tests, so I can go with smaller cheaper options from Aliexpress. Since I will use a glass sheet with standoffs on the side which increases clearance, I can probably look for bigger ones as well.

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Reply 1 of 8, by Thermalwrong

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That's amazing for a full size ATX board, really nice build 😀

Good solution for the fan noise too, I used to do that with the 8800GTX, removed the shroud and original fan with 2x 120mm fans stuck over it, much quieter.

Reply 3 of 8, by mothergoose729

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The FX 1300 is supposedly pretty spotty with windows 98. I'd be interested to see how well you get along with it.

I have a somewhat similar FX 1000 quadro. I took the shroud off and replaced the fan with a 55mm one, and then ran the 2 pin fan to a 3pin extension and then into a simple 3 pin fan controller. It helps a lot with the noise.

There are ATI PCIE cards that are apparently pretty good performers in windows 98.

Reply 4 of 8, by harryshuman

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Warlord wrote on 2021-04-20, 15:44:

rivaturner helps with noise for fan speed adjust. I have not exactly but kinda a similar in a sort of way build to yours, and the nvidia card at least mine does makes some noise.

You just cannot expect 17 year old fans to work silently. Plus I'm sure the internal mechanism is full of junk. Plus there's no need to trade performance for noise level, a much bigger 120mm slim Scythe fan will cool it just as well, if not better.

Reply 5 of 8, by harryshuman

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-04-20, 15:52:

The FX 1300 is supposedly pretty spotty with windows 98. I'd be interested to see how well you get along with it.

I have a somewhat similar FX 1000 quadro. I took the shroud off and replaced the fan with a 55mm one, and then ran the 2 pin fan to a 3pin extension and then into a simple 3 pin fan controller. It helps a lot with the noise.

There are ATI PCIE cards that are apparently pretty good performers in windows 98.

That's not FX 1300, that's FX 3450. It works just fine with minor modifications of the unofficial GeForce 6/7 driver for Win98.

It is possible there are some PCI-E ATI cards that work just fine. I believe the 800-series was the last line to support that OS. However, I don't have it, and FX 3450 is much faster in any case. I do have 1600XT laying around, but it doesn't support Win 98.

Reply 6 of 8, by mothergoose729

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harryshuman wrote on 2021-04-20, 19:58:
mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-04-20, 15:52:

The FX 1300 is supposedly pretty spotty with windows 98. I'd be interested to see how well you get along with it.

I have a somewhat similar FX 1000 quadro. I took the shroud off and replaced the fan with a 55mm one, and then ran the 2 pin fan to a 3pin extension and then into a simple 3 pin fan controller. It helps a lot with the noise.

There are ATI PCIE cards that are apparently pretty good performers in windows 98.

That's not FX 1300, that's FX 3450. It works just fine with minor modifications of the unofficial GeForce 6/7 driver for Win98.

It is possible there are some PCI-E ATI cards that work just fine. I believe the 800-series was the last line to support that OS. However, I don't have it, and FX 3450 is much faster in any case. I do have 1600XT laying around, but it doesn't support Win 98.

Oh I see. That card is related to the geforce 6 right? I think the issues with the PCIE FX cards was the AGP->PCIE controller, which basically didn't work in windows 98. The native PCIE cards seem to do a bit better.

Reply 7 of 8, by appiah4

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harryshuman wrote on 2021-04-20, 19:58:

It is possible there are some PCI-E ATI cards that work just fine. I believe the 800-series was the last line to support that OS. However, I don't have it, and FX 3450 is much faster in any case. I do have 1600XT laying around, but it doesn't support Win 98.

Radeon X800/X850 series and FireGL V5100/V7100 (with modded Radeon drivers) are the fastest ATI PCIe cards that can run Win98. I have one in my LGA775 Win98SE box and it is AMAZINGLY fast at everything. Obviously.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 8 of 8, by harryshuman

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-04-20, 20:34:

Oh I see. That card is related to the geforce 6 right? I think the issues with the PCIE FX cards was the AGP->PCIE controller, which basically didn't work in windows 98. The native PCIE cards seem to do a bit better.

That's right, it's a slightly altered 6800 (I think GT version, with some things better, some worse).

appiah4 wrote on 2021-04-20, 23:16:

Radeon X800/X850 series and FireGL V5100/V7100 (with modded Radeon drivers) are the fastest ATI PCIe cards that can run Win98. I have one in my LGA775 Win98SE box and it is AMAZINGLY fast at everything. Obviously.

X800 is an excellent card, but I have somewhat of a hatred of ATI cards after I opted out for X800 over 6600 in mid 2000's and lost on long term support (shader 2.0b, I guess "b" stands for "be damned").

A major flaw in ATI cards for retro gaming is the lack of screen output scaling, which allows you to painlessly play 4:3 games on widescreen monitors. I tried ATI 9600XT and X1600 XT and neither had that feature for some reason, on any OS.

NVidia's support is patchy but the option is there if you look hard enough. The modded FX3450 drivers for Win98 don't have this feature, but it is present in Windows 2000 for same driver version. Yet the feature was removed on later drivers (???).