How to fix RB3D crashes with Radeon 9700?

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Postby Slice » 2003-2-27 @ 16:44

Yep mine works fine in DD mode too. Must be a conflict between openglide and the ATI drivers or something?

Glidos, do you have a debug version of openglide we can use based on 0.07b5 or other version?
--
Slice

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Postby Snover » 2003-2-27 @ 18:58

Moving this to OpenGLide General.
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Postby BMSliger » 2003-2-28 @ 00:12

Mark,

I go by the theory that you get things working stock before you start adding bells and whistles. I am running without AA and AF. I am not sure if thse work anyway since I seem to remember that RB3D was 8 bit only (256 colors) alhough they could have changed that in Glide mode.


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Postby Glidos » 2003-2-28 @ 00:32

Have you tried the old GeForce card yet? The graphics card has to be the most likely problem, although other are using Radeons successfully.

This stuff should be in the OpenGLide forum, but don't worry about it. We'll move the whole thread over sometime.
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Postby Slice » 2003-2-28 @ 02:47

Thanks guys, just that others say it works fine so it's annoying the hell out of me gaaah.

BTW I re-installed the latest Omega drivers it it no longer locks the PC just gives the same error as the official drivers.

Error below here if anyone can make heads or tails from it...
(sorry English saying)

------
BARON.EXE crashes if you press ESC.

Any opengl settings… unless I use AA then the whole PC locks up complelely (power off only way out) after minutes of flying or when using ESC to a menu.


Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 27/02/2003
Time: 18:51:26
User: N/A
Computer: SLICE
Description:
Faulting application baron.exe, version 1.0.0.6, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x5ed22ab6.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 62 61 72 ure bar
0018: 6f 6e 2e 65 78 65 20 31 on.exe 1
0020: 2e 30 2e 30 2e 36 20 69 .0.0.6 i
0028: 6e 20 75 6e 6b 6e 6f 77 n unknow
0030: 6e 20 30 2e 30 2e 30 2e n 0.0.0.
0038: 30 20 61 74 20 6f 66 66 0 at off
0040: 73 65 74 20 35 65 64 32 set 5ed2
0048: 32 61 62 36 0d 0a 2ab6..
--
Slice

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Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
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Postby Slice » 2003-2-28 @ 03:04

Thanks a lot DosFreak

I just ran it until I got the crash again, and now I have a large log file,
[snip]

grAlphaCombine( 3, 8, 1, 1, 0 )
grTexSource( 0, 0, 3, --- )
guDrawTriangleWithClip( ---, ---, --- )
guDrawTriangleWithClip( ---, ---, --- )
grBufferSwap( 0 )
Tex not found * * * * * <<<<<<<<< THIS THE PROBLEM???
Wipe tex 1
Add tex 1
grTexDownloadMipMap( 0, 0, 3, --- )
Wipe tex 1
grSstWinClose()
---------------------------------------
** Debug Information **
---------------------------------------
MaxTriangles in Frame = 2146
MaxTriangles in Sequence = 3
[snip]
Last edited by Slice on 2003-2-28 @ 03:17, edited 1 time in total.
--
Slice

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Althlon 64 4000+
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
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NEC 3500A 16X DVDRW
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Postby BMSliger » 2003-2-28 @ 05:51

OK,

Just replaced Radeon with GF4-4400. Loaded Ghosted partition of XP w/SP1 (XP clean + Intel INF + patch to get rid of MS Messenger + SP1). No Audio or Video. XP loaded default Nvidia drivers. Loaded soundcard drivers then RB3D. DD worked fine. Loaded Glidos with stock OpenGlid.ini file. When I tried to start a Fly Now mission in Glide mode, heard engine start then screen went black and locked. Rebooted and loaded 30.82 WHQL drivers (I've heard they give less problems than later drivers). Ran Fly Now mission in Glide and everything worked fine. Started a campaign and flew first mission and all worked fine. So it is definitely the Radeon causing the problem.

Now the question is why?

I remember reading somewhere that there were two different board level versions of the 9700 Pro and that they could be differentiated by the part number. Does that ring a bell with anyone? On my board there are two part numbers. On the front of the board by the bracket the part number 109-94200-11 is stamped into the board itself. On the back the part number 1029420613 066185 is stamped on a sticker. BTW my board is made and sold by ATI, not by one of the OEM makers.

Mark, if you could look at the part number(s) on your board and list them, maybe that would give us another piece of the puzzle. It would help if we could get part numbers of any boards which seem to work fine with Glidos & RB3D.

Just more food for thought.


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Postby Slice » 2003-2-28 @ 10:07

Hi Monte,

Yes it was a problem with early 1.1 revisions of the 9700s but that was mainly to do with AGP8X and some motherboards. The part numbers apparently didn't really indicate the revision, the real info was on the chip itself under the heatsink. Mine is a 1.3 revision "3D Connect" (this batch was made by ATI). So I don't think it's that. Also my card works fine with everything else (even less problems than my GeForce4 had generally).

At the time there were 1000s of posts on this on http://www.rage3d.com forums. (http://www.rage3d.com/board/ )
under "ATI Technology Forum", "Radeon 9500 and 9700 Technical Support."
--
Slice

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Althlon 64 4000+
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
2GB Ballastix DDR500 memory
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NEC 3500A 16X DVDRW
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Postby Slice » 2003-3-01 @ 21:40

Just noticed this in openglid.err

grAlphaBlendFunction: OpenGLError = invalid enumerant
Render::AddTriangle: OpenGLError = invalid enumerant
Render::AddTriangle: OpenGLError = invalid enumerant
Render::AddTriangle: OpenGLError = invalid enumerant
Render::AddTriangle: OpenGLError = invalid enumerant

this sequence is repeated over and over, is this relevant to desktop crash anybody?
--
Slice

Specs
Althlon 64 4000+
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
2GB Ballastix DDR500 memory
Audigy 2
Ati X850XT Pro
400GB SATA RAID 0
NEC 3500A 16X DVDRW
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Postby Slice » 2003-3-01 @ 22:35

Hmm Monte,

I just re-installed some older ATI drivers (Det 3.0 6255, file name wxp-w2k-radeon-7-81-021218a-007192c-efg.exe) plus uninstalled and re-installed the control panel.

And now it works! No crash. Using

Configuration File for OpenGLide

Version=Version0.07b5

[Options]
EnableMMX=1
CreateWindow=1
InitFullScreen=1
EnableMipMaps=1
IgnorePaletteChange=1
EnableFog=1
EnablePrecisionFix=0
EnableWrap565=1
EnableMultiTextureEXT=1
EnablePaletteEXT=1
EnablePackedPixelsEXT=0
EnableVertexArrayEXT=0
EnableSecondaryColorEXT=0
EnableFogCoordEXT=1
TextureMemorySize=64
WrapperPriority=2
FrameBufferMemorySize=16

I think the Texture memory max is 32? Anyway it's working.

Odd thing I can't work out is I try many different openglides, and suddenly no matter which one I try Red Baron won't find a glide card. Then I re-install video drivers again and it does!?? Wierd.
I can't work it out. All other games work fine with any of the new drivers seems odd that somewhere (registry?) something changes that completely breaks openglide, until I re-install the video drivers.

Gaaah.
--
Slice

Specs
Althlon 64 4000+
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
2GB Ballastix DDR500 memory
Audigy 2
Ati X850XT Pro
400GB SATA RAID 0
NEC 3500A 16X DVDRW
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Postby BMSliger » 2003-3-02 @ 10:40

Mark/Slice.

You hit the jackpot!!! Following up on your lead, I did some experimenting and here is what I finally ended up with after much trial and error.

1. Loaded ghosted partition of WinXP w/SP1
2. Loaded Cat 3.0a Video Drivers
3. Loaded Cat 3.0a Control Panel
4. Loaded Sound Card Drivers
5. Loaded RB3D (large install)
6. Loaded Glidos drivers (Version 0.07b4 from Glidos web site)
7. Flew Fly Now mission in Glide
8. Crashed - same as before.
9. Loaded Cat 3.0a Video Drivers over the top of the existing drivers - no uninstall and reinstall of drivers or control panel.
10 Flew Fly Now mission in Glide
11. All works fine

Apparently the reload of the 3.0a drivers over the existing driver/control panel combo is what does the trick since I have reloaded the ghosted partition 3 times and RB3D crashes until I reload the drivers on top of the existing drivers. If I uninstall and reinstall the 3.0a drivers, RB3D still crashes in Glide.

I can't get this trick to work with the Cat 3.1 drivers unfortunately. If I load 3.1 it crashes no matter what I do. I am satisfied with this fix since the only thing that 3.1 really did, as far as I can tell, is give the ability to use AA & AF in 16bit D3D mode. Since I run all the D3D games I play at 32bit, this "limitation" doesn't affect me. BTW, I was never able to get AA and AF to work in 16bit OpenGL mode in WWII fighters or IL-2 - only in 16bit D3D mode. Since Glidos/OpenGlide translates Glide calls into OpenGL calls, AA & AF would not work in RB3D anyway with the 3.1 drivers.

Another observation - If I turn on AA or AF in the OpenGL tab of Display Properties/Advanced, my desktop must be set to 16bit color depth. If it is 32bit, when exiting a mission the screen freezes and requires a reboot. As long as the desktop is 16bit, AA and AF can be turned on. While this doesn't affect RB3D in any way, it means that I can use OpenGL for IL-2 without ever changing my preferred settings. I only have to remember to be sure the desktop is set to 16bit before starting RB3D.

When I loaded Glidos, I did not change any options in the OpenGLide.ini file, even the IgnorePaletteChange option, I left it at 0. This seems to make certain effects such as bullet strikes appear more realistic than if the option is changed to 1. I must still turn Sun Glare off in the realism settings though. If I leave it enabled, my frame rate drops from ~60-70 into the low to mid teens whenever the sun is in view. This is a minor quibble to me.

Again, Mark, thanks for all your help and I hope my experimentation helps you out. So far I have tested only with the version 0.07b4 version of Glidos and the version 0.07b5 version from the OpenGlide web site. I may experiment with other versions since I can now go back to what appears to be a working setup when I need to. Again, I did not change any options in the OpenGLide.ini file. After I load HA and PL, I may have to play around with the texture memory size in the OpenGLide.ini file since I have read from other people that certain textures are corrupted when the texture memory setting is too high.

I will report back as I learn more.


Thanks again,
Monte
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Postby Slice » 2003-3-02 @ 19:03

Excellent Monte :) glad we found it :D

Thanks for your extra info and work. Only thing is at some point I will want to use the newer drivers, I don't like to use old drivers - it goes against the grain.

I wonder if we could put something together to submit to ATI to look at? Must be something specific here seems to be something around the 16bit/D3D/OpenGL/AA bits that must have changed?
I might post something over on Rage3D as one ATI guy hangs around there (Sirtec I think he is called).

One thing, I used a program called regsnap before, this takes a system snapshot of registry (and dlls replaced etc). I wonder if this would indicate what exactly changes during a reload of drivers with no uninstall first?

BTW where did you get the PL from? I am going to order the FMJ version of PL soon, but wanted to look at the previous versions they seem to have been removed from the PL Site currently.

Cheers Monte keep in touch.
--
Slice

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Postby Jammer » 2003-3-02 @ 20:12

I have the exact same problem: RB3D locks up on trying to exit a mission with AA and/or Aniso enabled. Works fine with them disabled, or when desktop is set to 16bpp, hence forcing OpenGLide to 16bpp output. The r300 + Cat 3.1 doesn't do 16bpp AA in OpenGL yet (it does in D3D.)

Tried compiling cvs, but the project includes OGLWindow.cpp which is not actually present in the source. Where do I get it?
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Postby BMSliger » 2003-3-02 @ 20:53

Mark,

The latest PL patch (before the FMJ version) is available at http://www.wings-of-valor.org/. Just click the link on the front page. The full patch is just under 50MB in size. The Hell's Angel patch is available at http://www.jamrom.com/hellsangels/. It is just under 40MB. Together, these make RB3D a new game. Don't know if these are useful for multiplayer if that is your thing, but for singleplayer they are awesome.

As far as the drivers, I wonder if it is just a matter of ATI breaking something that will be fixed in a later version. I have seen this happen many times with Windows (and even DOS) drivers. I am like you in that I prefer to run the latest version of drivers. Also, if they get 16bit AA working in OpoenGL, I certainly want to try that. Might not hurt to post on Rage3D and see if you can get some answers.

Jammer, the need to change the desktop to 16bit is not a major problem (just a very minor annoyance) since I use the ATI system tray icon to change between resolutions/bit depths very quickly. If they get 16bit AA working in OpenGL, then it may be more of a concern with RB3D (assuming by then we can find a way to make Glidos work with the latest drivers). As far as your second paragraph about "compiling cvs", I am not familiar with what you are talking about so I can't help you.


Monte
Last edited by BMSliger on 2003-3-02 @ 20:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Slice » 2003-3-02 @ 22:23

Ah thanks Monte,

I did already try the HA files & OTE 4 Seasons - looks great :)

Thanks for the PL link downloading it now.

Seems to me with IgnorePaletteChange=1 there is much better frame rates but slightly less quality. With it set to 0, I get a slow down (slightly jerky) even with the sun glare turned off and terrible fps when sun glare is on.


Jammer: are you using Det 3.0 or Det 3.1?
--
Slice

Specs
Althlon 64 4000+
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
2GB Ballastix DDR500 memory
Audigy 2
Ati X850XT Pro
400GB SATA RAID 0
NEC 3500A 16X DVDRW
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Postby Jammer » 2003-3-03 @ 00:44

Slice: Cat 3.1

BMSliger: I'm trying to compile the newest OpenGLide source code out of cvs, the source code management server the OpenGLide team uses (http://openglide.sourceforge.net). I may be able to fix this bug if I can get it to compile.
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Postby BMSliger » 2003-3-03 @ 01:46

Jammer,

Great! I sure hope you get it working. If I can help, please let me know.


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Postby Slice » 2003-3-03 @ 01:52

Now that is odd Jammer that it works with Det 3.1 for you. Gaah!

Yes if you can get to look at this we would be eternally grateful as I am sure may other 9700 owners would.

If you want some beta testers we are here :)


OK if Det 3.1 works for you I might try reinstall then.

I would love to work out why the re-install over the top of the same version of Det's makes it work though.. that's wierd.

Cheers
--
Slice

Specs
Althlon 64 4000+
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-SLI nForce 4 motherboard
2GB Ballastix DDR500 memory
Audigy 2
Ati X850XT Pro
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NEC 3500A 16X DVDRW
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Postby Jammer » 2003-3-03 @ 02:28

Slice: First of all, it DOESN'T work for me, as I stated above. Well, "it" does work with no AA / Aniso, but I don't consider that an acceptable option <g>. Furthermore, ATI drivers are called CATS, not DETS, or is this an inside joke?..=)
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