VOGONS


First post, by thecrankyhermit

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I'm using this cable:
http://www.amazon.com/Cable-Converter-Music-K … w/dp/B0017H4EBG

When I type "mixer /listmidi" into DOSBox, these are the options:
0 "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth"
1 "USB Audio Device"
2 "USB Audio Device [2]"

The MIDI section of dosbox.conf looks like this:
mpu401=intelligent
mididevice=default
midiconfig=2

I'm using King's Quest 5 as a demo. It is configured by setup to use Roland MT-32 for Music and Sound Blaster for Audio.

The MIDI music sounds awful. Sound output is coming from the MT-32 - I can twist the unit's volume knob and hear the music's volume change, and the MIDI Message LED blinks repeatedly.

I'm only vaguely aware of what SysEx is, but I noticed that the LCD screen doesn't show any of Sierra's messages on bootup. Is it possible that the MT-32 isn't receiving SysEx? Do I need to do something special to make SysEx work? Is it possible that my USB cable does not support SysEx?

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 1 of 48, by HunterZ

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it should be device= and config= not mididevice= and midiconfig=

Why are there 2 USB Audio Devices listed, and what happens if you use config=1 instead?

Sierra may or may not have put SysEx screen messages in that demo.

The wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-co … _computer_games ) suggests that KQV may sound wrong on newer MT-32's, so that could be it (doubtful though).

Are you getting a buffer overflow or checksum error on your MT-32's display when you start the game?

The cable should not block SysEx.

You might try running with a low cycle count, like cycles=4000.

Reply 2 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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it should be device= and config= not mididevice= and midiconfig=

They were mididevice and midiconfig to start with. If I change them to just device and config, it uses Windows GS Synth.

Why are there 2 USB Audio Devices listed, and what happens if you use config=1 instead?

I don't know for sure, but it could be related to that the cable has two MIDI heads, one for in, one for out. And I meant to type "config=1" but it doesn't seem to make a difference either way.

Sierra may or may not have put SysEx screen messages in that demo.

It's the full game. I meant demo as in demo the MT-32.

The wikipedia article ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT...uter_games ) suggests that KQV may sound wrong on newer MT-32's, so that could be it (doubtful though).

It's an older MT-32, if Wikipedia's diagrams are correct.

Are you getting a buffer overflow or checksum error on your MT-32's display when you start the game?

Not that I know of.

You might try running with a low cycle count, like cycles=4000.

Already using 3000.

I just tried playing the game Might and Magic III in Roland + Sound Blaster mode, and it sounded alright. I also tried Monkey Island 2 in ScummVM, and it sounds pretty much like a sample I remember listening to before.

I also tried King's Quest IV in ScummVM. It sounds odd, though not quite as odd as KQV.

Sierra must be doing something fancy with the MT-32, and one of the links in my system can't handle it.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 3 of 48, by rcblanke

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Mididevice and midiconfig are correct, HunterZ must be mistaken as the other names are from an older dosbox generation.

KQV should definitively display some sysex messages on the MT-32's display. Try resetting (turn off and on, or press and hold master volume together with rhythm and press part1) the MT-32, some games do not properly reset sysex data prior to loading the new midi data.

Reply 4 of 48, by Mau1wurf1977

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Try another game! Wing Commander, Space Quest 3, Monkey Island 2, Fate of Atlantis...

If you are running XP or have Vista / 7 and that midi port changer utility to change to the USB port just play this midi file through media player (don't fast forward though).

The midi file is from Wing Commander. It's best enjoyed on MT-32 (Old), the one without headphones and ROM vesion up to 1.07!

Your midi adapter / MT-32 should flash for several seconds at the beginning...

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Reply 5 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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Try resetting (turn off and on, or press and hold master volume together with rhythm and press part1) the MT-32, some games do not properly reset sysex data prior to loading the new midi data.

No difference if I do it right before running DOSBox.

Your midi adapter / MT-32 should flash for several seconds at the beginning...

The USB cable has three LEDs - one marked MIDI, one with a G-Clef, and one marked USB. The USB light is always on, the MIDI light is always off.

When I play the MIDI file you sent, the G-Clef blinks for about nine seconds. I hear nothing, and the MT-32 does nothing. Then the G-Clef turns off.

At the 16 second mark, the G-Clef blinks again, and now I hear stuff. The opening of the MIDI sounds a bit strange. The rest of the songs sound almost good, but there's a frequent odd-sounding instrument. For instance, at around the 55 second mark, there is a piano sound that should not be there, and every time such a note plays the LCD says "<number>|Piano |Honkytonk."

As for the other games you suggested:
Wing Commander - I don't have the DOS version.

Space Quest 3 - In the intro, during the part where the tempo kicks up, the instrument on channel 3 is wrong. The MT-32 says "pipe organ," and it doesn't mesh with the other sounds, nor does it sound anything like this. This is the only clearly incorrect thing I have personally noticed in the ten minutes I've tested SQ3. Also, no "INSERT BUCKAZOID" message.

Monkey Island 2 - As mentioned, it sounds like I think it's supposed to.

Indy4 - Not terribly impressive, but I can't hear anything horribly wrong with it either.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 6 of 48, by Mau1wurf1977

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Ok it looks like you USB midi cable doesn't send / has issues sending the midi messages that "reprogram" the MT-32. For reference here a recording of Wing Commander on my MT-32: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV8VvLRV3fA

This is the USB midi cable I got from ebay. Works 100%: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-MIDI-Interface-Con … =item415224a1ae

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
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Reply 7 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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My cable looks almost exactly like that. The only difference is that it doesn't say "IN" or "OUT" anywhere, but it has the same connectors, the same G-Clef, and the same LED placements.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 8 of 48, by Mau1wurf1977

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When you played the Wing Commander MIDI file I sent you, did your MT-32s MIDI message light also flash like on my video? Did you get the "Origin Sound System" message?

Do you have another machine / netbook / notebook where you can test the USB adapter?

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Reply 9 of 48, by Dominus

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did you try different usb ports?

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
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Reply 10 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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When you played the Wing Commander MIDI file I sent you, did your MT-32s MIDI message light also flash like on my video?

For the first few seconds where you don't hear anything, no. The light doesn't turn on until the music plays. After that, the light is on during the music, and off during the breaks.

Did you get the "Origin Sound System" message?

Nope.

Do you have another machine / netbook / notebook where you can test the USB adapter?

Tried my Win7 laptop. No luck. DOSBox shows these options:
0 "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth"
1 "USB2.0-MIDI"
2 "MIDIOUT2 (USB2.0-MIDI)

If I pick #1, I don't hear anything, and neither the cable nor the MT-32 give any sort of feedback when I should. If I pick #2, it acts and sounds just like it does on my main machine - wrong instruments for Sierra games, and no custom messages on the LED.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 11 of 48, by Dominus

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hmm, I'd say your adapter is broken...
Another thing to try, if you happen to own Ultima 7, install Exult (http://exult.sf.net) set it to mt32 (you also need to set the device in the exult.cfg as you have to do with Dosbox) and play. Exult does display some nice sysex messages, for example it says Exult on startup).
If that doesn't work as well, it's broken....

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 12 of 48, by Mau1wurf1977

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It really looks like your adapter doesn't send the Sysex messages. The flasshing light before the game starts "programs" the MT-32. If this doesn't work, you instruments willl sound off.

Same with the Origin and Sierra message. It's sysex.

My driver only gives me a single USB Midi device. You might buy another MIDI adapter. Maybe a brand model. Or try a different driver? Did you install off a disc? Because I didn't windows found the driver on it's own (under W7)

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Reply 13 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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The adapter didn't come with any driver disc, and the description says the drivers are built into the thing. Both my XP system and Win7 laptop give a "Installing drivers...." message for a few seconds after plugging in the adapter for the first time.

And I tried Exult. The music sounds alright, but the only messages I see on the LCD are the names of instruments.

I'm looking into new adapters. So far I've gotten a used unit, found it didn't come with the AC adapter, so I got a 9v adapter, then found that the sound outputs don't fit RCA plugs, so then I got a 1/4" to stereo adapter, and now it seems like the MIDI-USB adapter isn't good enough, so I need another one.

I feel like Groucho Marx here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LBIsDBC848

Last edited by thecrankyhermit on 2010-12-04, 20:00. Edited 1 time in total.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 14 of 48, by HunterZ

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You might try holding down Master Volume + Rhythm, then when it says "*** All Reset OK? [1]" hit Part 1. This will reset the MT-32 in case it is somehow remembering some weird setting.

Reply 15 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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Yeah, tried that already. No difference if I do it before playing a game, and if I do it *during* a game, it makes it sound even weirder.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 16 of 48, by HunterZ

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It does sound like a possible problem with the cable then.

If it's a newer MT-32, have you tried testing it with the ROM Play mode? (mine doesn't have it, but the newer manual says you can hold Master Volume while turning it on, then hit any of Part 1-5 to select and play a song)

Also, how exactly do you have the MT-32 hooked up? (like which MIDI connectors on the MT-32 have something connected etc.)

Reply 17 of 48, by thecrankyhermit

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It's an older one, according to Wikipedia's diagrams.

The MIDI cable has two MIDI plugs, one labeld IN, and the other OUT. I have the OUT plug connected to the MT-32's IN port (this is what the cable's instructions say to do), and the other plug isn't connected to anything. It makes no difference whether I have this plug connected or not.

I'm not even quite sure what the MT-32's OUT and THRU ports are there for, but I assume they aren't needed to play DOS games.

Running:
Windows 10
Core i5-6600
Geforce GTX 970
8GB RAM

Reply 18 of 48, by HunterZ

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THRU is for chaining multiple devices together I think. Sounds like you have your MT-32 hooked up the same way I do (well, except I have an SC-88 in between).

Reply 19 of 48, by Dominus

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you have set it up correctly, as far as I can tell and I have exactly the same usb/midi adapter. I have no idea why it is failing for you. But then I'm using it on OS X and not on Windows anymore... I'll give it a try now though...

I just tried Virtual Machines with both Windows XP and Windows 7 (32bit). In both the adapter worked fine and showed me the sysex messages of Exult. One thing though in Exult you have to set Midi device type to MT32 (not Fake MT32) - done through the in game audio setup.