VOGONS


First post, by Vognar

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Hello,

I recently heard of Roland MT32 emulation and I say it is an opportunity to get back into some games like Privateer and Strike Commander, with best music quality 😀

I configured Dosbox SVN-Daum, put MT32_CONTROL.ROM and MT32_PCM.ROM in dosbox directory and start the game (Privateer).

Unfortunately the music is ... awful. It is as if missing instrumental tracks.

I joined this message in an audio file the MP3 music on the planet agriculture: attention to the ears 🙄

Have you encountered such a problem?

Thanks for your help

Vognar

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Reply 1 of 12, by Mau1wurf1977

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Hi Vogur!

Well you came to the right place! Plenty of MIDI gurus here.

This one is easy. Privateer doesn't support the MT-32 but General MIDI.

Wing Commander and Wing Commander 2 are better games to test the MT-32 emulation. Privateer is too new (it's all relative 😁)

So you have quite a few options:

- Use the default DOSBox and your Windows MIDI device will play General MIDI
- If you are looking for something better you can look into learning about soundfonts (Bassmidi, Creative X-Fi).

Here is what good General MIDI modules sounds like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlWXbj9Fvkg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3RJT1p3YMU

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
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Reply 2 of 12, by Vognar

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Hi Mau1wurf1977,

Thank for your answer.
Ok, I understand now.

Music in Privateer is very well with "standard" General Midi (better than the sound blaster 16 I had at the time 😒 ).

However, on this youtube video, Privateer music looks better than my default windows midi device:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkDhg9FaMMs&fe … BD36&playnext=2

So I thought that the difference is due to the choice of Midi device (win32 or mt32). 😕
I guess I can not get this result?

Thank you for your advice, I'll find out soundfonts, for Privateer

Vognar

Reply 3 of 12, by Mau1wurf1977

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Yes he is using a Roland Sound Canvas. They sound better compared to the default Windows MIDI device.

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Reply 4 of 12, by Vognar

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Yes, I like this midi version, with Roland Canvas

I used a Roland Canvas soundfont (Scc1t2.sf2) and it's look very good.

But now I ask myself this question: Is that a soundfont (synthmt.sf2 for instance ) is as good as emulation, and real mt32 soundcard ?

Thanks

Reply 5 of 12, by Dominus

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Again, if the gamemusic is not made for mt32 (example Privateer) then using a mt32 (emulation or real device) will not sound good. You will have to use your computers midi device and if that is capsble you best use a high quality soundfont.
Some games need to be setup to use the mt32 so always check the installer of the game.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 6 of 12, by Mau1wurf1977

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MIDI is a standard for instruments. But not a standard for how they sound 😀

So no MIDI module or soundfont will ever sound the same. Heck there are even differences between the same MIDI device but with different ROM version or PCB revision. It's analogue technology at its best.

If you want to buy a decent General MIDI device for DOSBOx / ScummVM I can highly recommend the Roland Sound Canvas SC-55. For a real vintage retro PC the NEC385 / Yamaha wavetable board is also highly recommended. Many forum members here have on of these, or both.

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 7 of 12, by Vognar

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I'm using a laptop, so it's not easy to add a sound card (maybe usb ...?). But I agree it's the best thing to do, thanks for this idea

On the youtube Privateer video, the Midi music played by the Roland Canvas is different than my Midi "windows device".
But in Privateer setup, the music sound card is both "General Midi", isn't it?
I understand that when you can choose mt32 (as Wing Commander 1 & 2), the music is composed specifically for this sound card (and its library).
But in Privateer (and other General Midi games), it's not the same "general midi" for all soundcard, so ?
This is so unfair 😅

The music composer of Privateer has chosen his midi's instruments so that they are respected, whatever the sound card that plays his music?
It's strange that there is no "compatibility" between a real sound card and a soundfont file.
So without real MT32, I could never hear the music exactly planned by the composer?

Vognar

Reply 8 of 12, by Dominus

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So without real MT32, I could never hear the music exactly planned by the composer?

only if the music was composed for/with a MT32 and instead of a real device you can use a mt32 emulator - it's getting closer and closer to the real thing. If it was done for General Midi it will most likely never sound good with a MT32. For GM the music you will hear will always depend on the soundcard you have and if you can use soundfonts, on the instruments and depth this sf provides.

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 9 of 12, by Mau1wurf1977

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Vognar wrote:

I'm using a laptop, so it's not easy to add a sound card (maybe usb ...?).

Yes USB is how you do it. Specifically a USB ti MIDI adapter.

This is so unfair 😅

The difference between MT-32 and General MIDI is important to understand.

Back in the old days, if you wanted MT-32 music and sound you really had no choice but to buy a Roland MT-32. General MIDI changed all of that. It is a set standard for 128 instruments allowing anyone to make a General MIDI compatible MIDI device..

So as long as your MIDI device is General MIDI compatible, the music and sounds will sound somewhat correct. If the games is playing a drum, you will hear a drum. If the game is playing a guitar, you will a guitar.

BUT General MIDI didn't define HOW exactly a drum or a guitar sounds is meant to sound. And that's why every General MIDI device sounds somewhat different.

Now the Roland Sound Canvas was the de-facto General MIDI reference for most MS-DOS games. Specifically the SC-55 and this is the MIDI module I recommend buying. Yamaha is my second recommendation, many prefer the sound of the Yamaha over the one of Roland. And then there are heaps of other MIDI modules that you need to listen to and see which ones you like.

But for the majority a Roland or Yamaha General MIDI module is what will need to get to do the job.

For sound fonts there is a dedicated thread here somewhere. Sound fonts offer quality that offers something extra, beyond and different from these of old General MIDI devices. Some are 100MB and larger.

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 10 of 12, by Dominus

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Thanks for taking the time and explaining so thoroughly 😉

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 11 of 12, by Vognar

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Yes, thanks Mau1wurf1977, it's very instructive and it's clearer to me now 😀

So I'll learn more about sound cards or /and soundfonts to improve music for my favorites old game .

Some games (Strike Commander in my case) offer to use Roland LAPC-1 or General Midi.
So I guess it's the same answer as Privateer : use LAPc-1 only if I have a hardware LAPC-1 (or emulator), and General midi for others cases?

Thanks a lot,

Vognar