VOGONS


Reply 60 of 79, by spiffythedog

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All right, you two clowns, I have withdrawn the patch offer per your wishes.

Do you honestly think that's fair and reasonable in the slightest? Only I said that, not realnc. Regardless of whatever I may think, maybe he or anyone else reading this thread might have appreciated your patch. Did you ever think of that? No, you just treat people like trash, make them constantly walk on eggshells around you, and at even the slightest hint of dissent or complaint from ANYONE, you smash all your toys so that no one can play with them. It's simply not on and I refuse to indulge you any longer.

Reply 61 of 79, by NewRisingSun

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So what do you want, now? First I'm the bad guy for offering a patch that I must have made within twenty minutes just to "save face" in a forum thread -- as ridiculous as that sounds already --, then I am even worse for withdrawing the offer to which you objected in the first place? Like I said, don't post when you are enraged, because you are making absolutely no sense. And as for who "treats people like trash" -- I suggest you refrain from throwing out false accusations while misquoting and misrepresenting other people's positions. If you are angry at me for having you remove links to patches that I have had to disown a long time ago in that Wikipedia page you edited, then say so, but don't make up other ridiculous reasons for jumping at me.

Reply 62 of 79, by spiffythedog

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I'm not angry that you made me remove links to your patches on the wiki page. I know full well that I did the wrong thing and I apologized to you no less then three times. I knew you were going to be angry and unhappy, but I honestly didn't expect you to treat me like I accidently nuked your entire fucking country. Seriously, would you rather I have deleted them myself and not told you at all, like a total coward, only to have you inevitably find out that I put them there in the first place and have you throw an ever bigger shitfit?

You didn't even allow me a chance to delete them myself, like I said I would if you felt uncomfortable with having them on there. Fine. I fucked up, so I'm expected to take the heat, as rude and disproportionate though it may be. Fair is fair.

But then I come back to this thread and find you acting like a smug, arrogant asshole to complete strangers who only wanted to help improve this list (which I later learned that you originally started, mind you), and I don't know, I guess something just snapped in me and all previous respect I may have had for you just completely evaporated.

I spent over two months (not just the one month I mentioned in my post, I stopped during the middle of the year and then resumed during November) working on this list, just as a fun little hobby and to help other people who might also be interested in this extremely niche little bit of gaming trivia. I didn't even expect any praise or recognition for it - simply doing it was enough in and of itself. But dealing with you has just completely dried up any enthusiasm I may have originally felt when starting at this and almost made me regret wasting my time. That's really the worst thing you could have possibly done. So forgive me if I'm just a little bit bitter and cranky about this whole mess.

Reply 63 of 79, by Shreddoc

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Literally hundreds of people will view and appreciate that work across many years, spiffythedog.

As a 20+ year veteran of various forum arguments and dramas, I finally realised how pointless it is to base your emotional state and self-esteem (and indeed, time) upon one mere person's opinions and habits.

I also thought it was a bit rude of NewRisingSun to blithely reflect someone's statement back at them, altered to castigate. I thought Vogons had more of a non-confrontational ethic. But look, life's too short to spend a long time railing at individuals whose behaviour doesn't match your own standards, and they certainly won't take your advice anyway! 😀

If two people don't like each other (for whatever reason, real or otherwise, fair or inflated), then oh well, that's life. So I hope you guys can forget each other and move on.

Last edited by Shreddoc on 2020-12-21, 04:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 64 of 79, by spiffythedog

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But look, life's too short to spend a long time railing at individuals whose behaviour doesn't match your own standards, and they certainly won't take your advice anyway! 😀

I know, I know. I realize that I'm just junking up the thread - a thread on a board for niche computers and software on the internet of all places - with this pointless drama. I guess I just needed to vent.

Reply 65 of 79, by Shreddoc

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2020 is a heck of a year for venting.

I'm a big fan of the Original Synth column of the Wiki page, as it really gets to the heart of the original question that forms this thread's title.

Though it does seem at the moment to be somewhat of an inverse list, as in it currently shows how the classified games were originally composed on things /other than/ the MT-32.

Whereas if I am looking for a comprehensive list of confimed games that /were/ composed on the MT-32 itself, I still struggle to find that in any one resource.

(or..? is it implied that all games with no original synth listed were MT-32 composed?)

Reply 66 of 79, by spiffythedog

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(or..? is it implied that all games with no original synth listed were MT-32 composed?)

That's the one. 😀

I can certainly see how it might look that way. Hell, in some cases the term 'intended synth' might be more appropriate , as you've no doubt seen with games such as Simon the Sorcerer II, where the music may have originally started out as being composed for MT-32 but then completed and enhanced for General MIDI... maybe. Then there's the case of games ported from consoles and other computers having remixed or alternate soundtracks for their IBM DOS releases (there are quite a few!), or even DOS exclusive games with multiple soundtracks for different drivers, which only further muddies the waters.

Reply 67 of 79, by Spikey

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Either way, I'm now FAR more of an expert about "Inventory Music" slash "CD 2 Track 12" of Betrayal at Krondor than I ever expected to be within my lifetime. So thanks, guys. (P.S. we should email Feist about it, see what he thinks)

Incidentally, the game the argument was over was NOT Betrayal at Krondor, lest we confuse anybody. 😀

Also, NewRisingSun, as a huge fan of yours, I have to say your behaviour in this thread has been less than optimal. Please consider the words of others and be kinder and less confrontational.

Reply 68 of 79, by Spikey

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I edited my previous original post to be a lot nicer than what it originally read, but since I got a (very) rude PM from NewRisingSun.. I'll say my piece.

NRS, your posts and behaviour have been problematic for far too long. I am sick and tired as others have said, of 'walking on eggshells', around your angry, passive-aggressive and immature behaviour. You have done, and will probably continue to do, great things, but then you undo it all by a factor of ten by the frankly awful way you treat people and respond to them. I can't believe the PM I just got for "joining the pile on ,instead of keeping my mouth shut" (his words). You've been rude to me in many of our exchanges, for goodness sake..

Whether you see it or not, your behaviour and way you conduct yourself in this forum is NOT normal, and was never acceptable.

Last edited by Spikey on 2020-12-22, 06:37. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 70 of 79, by NewRisingSun

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You know fully well what the blacklist was actually for: a false claim that my SQ4 CD-ROM improvement patch was supposedly a "crack" because it removed a copy-protection check that never existed (in that version) in the first place. After that was pointed out to them, they changed their tune to falsely claiming that it is a "crack" because I supposedly took every asset from the disk version and put it into the CD version except for the copy-protection check, which was also false because I only took the better-looking background pictures from the floppy disk version. Your cheap-shot proves only one thing: you are trying to settle scores with me about entirely unrelated issues. Or as I accurately put it: a pile-on. And I also maintain: Spikey's comment added nothing to the discussion, so it would have been better if he kept himself out of it instead of now publicly airing past grievances (and private messages).

As for the original comment that you two considered so out-of-line: the commenter wrote with an air of authority ("the only objective argument") something that was entirely false (notwithstanding spiffy's attempt to spin it as true), so I corrected it and criticised the combination of certitude and lack of verification. It's one thing to express the opinion that this was excessive, but spiffy's unhinged (and continuing) outbursts -- about an entirely different issue, that caused him, as he admitted, to just sit there waiting for an opportunity to explode at me -- makes anything I ever said pale in comparison.

Last edited by NewRisingSun on 2020-12-22, 08:04. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 71 of 79, by spiffythedog

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Two people (three if you count Shreddoc) is not a pile-on.

I don't care anymore. This is the last I want to publicly say about... whatever the hell this was supposed to be.

Like Shreddoc said, it's friggin' video games, man.

Reply 72 of 79, by NewRisingSun

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I think you at least owe me an apology for the ScummVM "blacklist" cheap-shot. Shreddoc is not part of the pile-on because he was not out of line as you were.

spiffythedog wrote:

Like Shreddoc said, it's friggin' video games, man.

I did not choose to derail this thread by trying to put me on trial, so to speak, you (and Spikey) did.

Reply 73 of 79, by spiffythedog

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You've blocked your PMs, so I'll give you my response:

No.

This entire argument or 'feud' is completely silly and pointless and it's boiling my brains trying to figure out why you would even want to keep pursuing it. It has made me sad, hurt, angry, frustrated, exhausted, and I am now just completely fed up with it. I have never personally encountered someone so childish and petty yet simultaneously so smug and passive-aggressive during my entire lifetime on the internet. People, including myself, have shown you nothing but the highest level of respect and esteem for all the work you've done over all these years, but you can't even afford even the smallest iota of that respect to anyone else simply because they have committed the egregious sin of not possessing the same advanced level of knowledge and expertise that you do. If this is all about some childish notion of 'defending your honor' because someone dared contradict you or just not let you have you way for once, then let me be brutally honest. No one cares about this but you. Or rather, at least not to the same overzealous extent that you do.

I mean, so what? What 'honor' do you possibly hope to 'defend' on an obscure forum for retro 90s computers and DOS games? Show a sense of goddamned perspective for once, because quite frankly your priorities, combined with your overinflated sense of importance and self-worth in relation to your extremely niche field of expertise, border on deranged. People like you convince themselves that they are always right and justified in their own minds, and spend their entire lives pursuing that 'righteousness' to the exclusion of all else, and at the cost of everything else, including the people around them.

I don't like being angry, and I hate that you were ever able to make me feel this angry, and all over something so goddamned trivial and petty. It's ugly, and it makes people ugly. I don't want that, and I hope neither do you, but my hope and optimism have taken a slight hit from this ridiculous clownshow. I hoped maybe you weren't truly as arrogant, petty, infantile, egotistical, pretentious, and just downright unpleasant as I had suspected you were, and that I was just being pessimistic and paranoid. God I hate when I'm right. I'd tell you to grow up, but I just know you'll never listen, simply because you never think you're wrong and you lack a working sense of shame. So I'll leave you with these parting words:

Spend some time with your loved ones, whether it be family, friends or what have you. Doesn't even have to be physical (what with the 'rona and all), just talk to them and let them know that you're here for them and are with them, and that you love them and that you appreciate their continued presence in your life. Savour it, because, as Shreddocs so wisely put it: life is just too short for all this nerd forum drama bullshit.

This is all I'm going to say on this. We've both embarassed ourselves enough.

Last edited by spiffythedog on 2020-12-22, 10:07. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 74 of 79, by NewRisingSun

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spiffythedog wrote:

No one cares about this but you.

The amount of text you write attacking me contradicts your claim that you do not care. You care a lot, excessively, obsessively. You derailed this thread by trying to hold me accountable for all the bad things I supposedly said and how arrogant and petulant and "honor-obsessed" I am for having the temerity to respond to your statements in a few short lines of text, all while you were making demonstrably false claims, cheap-shots, and unsubstantiated allegations. I only responded. And as long as you keep attacking me publicly, and let the existing attacks stand, I shall defend myself publicly, and insist that you respond publicly, if you do, not via private message. You could have originally just written a one-liner saying "that was a mean comment" if that is what you thought, but you had to post a tapestry of grievances. I did not.

And when I tried to turn the thread back into a productive discussion by offering a patch to a game, you bad-mouthed it by absurdely claiming that I was doing it to "save face". So yes, I am perfectly willing to discuss classic gaming-related subjects instead of drama. Will you let me?

Reply 75 of 79, by Spikey

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If we're talking facts:

That music is on the second CD, track 12. The CD version is missing nothing, and nothing has been cut-down. Nothing whatsoever. […]
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That music is on the second CD, track 12. The CD version is missing nothing, and nothing has been cut-down. Nothing whatsoever. If you think something has been cut, then you just have not looked properly. It only plays the Character Creation music if you have the first CD in the drive. The game only prompts you to insert the other CD when it wants to make sure that the correct plot-relevant piece of music is played, and will not prompt you to swap CDs just to play the right inventory music. That does not mean that the music is not there on the other CD.

realnc wrote:
The only objective argument here is that there's missing music and many tracks are cut down.

The only objective argument is that you are not verifying things properly before you post them.

These (underlined passages) are rude comments that added nothing to the discussion. They weren't necessary, and can only be interpreted to start an argument or show your dominance. Hence the reply that NRS got. Also see his "Alright, you two clowns.." shortly thereafter.

I maintain that none of the following would have happened had NRS not initiated combat, as it were.

As for saying I should keep my mouth shut because I was not adding anything! Irony overload. Sorry, my former friend, but you don't get to make that request after your ridiculous and hurtful message you sent to me.

And for the love of all that is unholy, NRS, please spare us the gaslighting and martyr nonsense of you turning yourself into the victim. While I don't like the Scumm issue being brought up, or agree with their weird logic regarding SQ4, it's not clear that Spiffy knew of the background, I had forgotten myself despite knowing at one point. So I don't see some smear campaign. I see an upset, frustrated person tired of dealing with someone behaving like a bully. The reason he's typing so much, if I may step in here, is because despite his best efforts, you haven't apologised, retracted your statements or shown any kind of remorse/etc except to double and triple down on your rudeness. (Nobody cares if you're right any more- we care that you don't treat other people properly.) So of course, his (Spiffy's) stress levels have multiplied every time he's had to visit this thread and see more off-topic, mean crap. I have absolutely been there myself dealing with stressful threads and provocateurs.

Incidentally, how is it reasonable to talk about criticisms of you needing to all be public and on the record, but you send me an abusive message via PM the same day?

Reply 76 of 79, by NewRisingSun

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Obviously, the answer to "will you let me?" is "No!". Another round, then.

Spikey wrote:

These (underlined passages) are rude comments that added nothing to the discussion. They weren't necessary, and can only be interpreted to start an argument or show your dominance.

You were searching for and have now found things to take offense to. Neither were spiffy's comments "necessary", nor was you getting involved in other people's disputes "necessary".

Spikey wrote:

is because despite his best efforts, you haven't apologised,

No specific grievance of Spiffy's was given to apologize for, only to another forum member, unless you consider making an edit to a Wikipedia article that he wanted to do himself requiring an apology. Telling someone that they are smug and petulant, and doing cheap-shots about the blacklisting of a now-discontinued patch, is neither a specific grievance nor a "best effort" to elicit an apology.

Spikey wrote:

but you send me an abusive message via PM the same day?

Nothing abusive about me telling you that because you involved yourself in this dispute to which you had not been a party (you quoted the actual passage), you should not expect any favors from me in the future. Or is it already "abusive" in your book that I no longer want to help you with MIDI files and conversion questions? If you actually believe that a private message is truly "abusive" in any substantive or legal sense of the word, as opposed to merely stern and possibly unjustifiedly so in your opinion, then contact a moderator/administrator, instead of attempting to use it as ammunition in an off-topic forum dispute.

If you want an apology, I will apologize to "realnc" for calling him a "whiner". Sorry for that, realnc, you are not a whiner. I will not apologize for forcefully contradicting him given the certitude of his comment, however, and given the amount of abuse you two have heaped on me the past two days, neither one of you two deserve an apology from me. Whatever legitimate concern you think you might have had at one point has been more than neutralized by your disproportionate behavior, and now you are just belaboring the point. And I think we both agree that nobody's opinion of the other person will still change from continuing this discussion, nor will you convince me that the behavior of you two is appropriate and proportional to the alleged grievance.

I suggest that you let the matter rest now, instead of having us go yet another pointless round.

Reply 78 of 79, by NewRisingSun

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The patch to combine the audio tracks of both Star Trail CDs into one oversize CD and make the game work with it? I better post that to a separate thread, after Christmas when I have the time to test it against the current popular DOSBox builds, as I made it in 2016 when SVN Daum was still the most popular one.