VOGONS


First post, by Mrdangerous

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Hi everyone! I don’t really ever post here, but I do lurk around to absorb some knowledge from time to time. However, I needed to post to try and figure out a strange occurrence, namely with MUNT and its midi recording function.
Recently I’ve been trying to record MT-32 tracks for fun and a bit of curiosity about its musical stylings, so I chose Sam and Max: Hit the Road because I really like the music in that one. To do this I’ve been using Scummvm (2.2.0) setting it up to use MUNT and then recording the track as it plays a Midi. I then use MidiEdit (https://www.midieditor.org/) to take out notes, take out empty parts, etc (though the program seems super temperamental, so maybe you all have a better suggestion). There were some bumps here and there, but for the most part it was going along, and I got some good tracks out of it too!

Then, it suddenly stopped working. No longer was the midi music recording correctly at any time except the Logo sequence.
Loading a save and trying to record a specific track? Nope.
Trying to skip the intro to get to gameplay and THEN record? Nope.
Trying to simply bite the bullet and wait through ALL the intro until I get back to where I need and THEN record? Nope.
Try to use the “reset” button in properties and THEN record? Nope.

No matter what I do, MUNT seems to refuse to correctly create midis anymore. It still records direct wavs just fine but doing that means I’m almost always going to get bleed over with other tracks due to how fast the midis play after each other.
I have no earthly idea what I did to make this program start hating me suddenly, so that’s why I’ve come at my wits end and making this post to ask all of you if I did something dumb.

I made a little MEGA Rar with my settings and music files to help determine what the issue may be. Of the two midis, the one that works is “Logo” and the other which was made after MUNT stopped wanting to work right is “Office after Intro Track (Broken)”. I also added two prior conversions I did, a conversion of the Office track from a non-broken midi and the song for Flint Paper (I didn’t save the good midis since I just wanted the final track at the time, sorry).
Sorry about this is a long post, but I hope I was coherent enough to at least get a conversation going.
PS. I would also like to add in the idea of MUNT fully uninstalling when you use the uninstall program, as it leaves settings files and the like that I was trying to get rid of the get a “cleaner” state again that I simply can’t get rid of or find on my computer.
MEGA Link: (Removed)

Stuff to fulfill guidelines (if the guidelines are for Midi machines only then that’s a doh for me):
Motherboard – ASRock X370 Taichi
Processor – AMD Ryzen 7 1700X / Corespeed (usually 3499.18 MHz)
RAM – Two 8GB sticks of G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 DDR4 - 2666 CL15 Memory
Video – AMD Radeon R9 380 Series
Soundboard – (the one installed in the motherboard)
Operating System – Windows 10
Game name – Sam and Max: Hit the Road (GOG Version)
Description/Reproducibility – (Explained in above)
Sound Mode used – Recording Scummvm through MUNT with custom settings (as shown in linked material)
Video Mode – Scummvm in Opengl
Version of emulator – Jan 20 2021 Build
Steps taken to already solve the problem – I tried various solutions as described without success and I have read all the included readmes from the MUNT install and found nothing for the specific issue (at least as far as I can tell).

Last edited by Mrdangerous on 2021-04-24, 13:53. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 9, by sergm

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Hi Mrdangerous,

I assume you've missed one way to solve the problem you describe: downgrading the application. Munt version 2.4.0 incorporates a new implementation of the MIDI recording function, so regressions are well possible. To be honest, I only did no more than a smoke test of this particular function on Windows. You are welcome to rollback and try the previous version of the synth application which you can get from here.

Reply 2 of 9, by Mrdangerous

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Thanks for the unique suggestion! However, the problem seems to still be there. Loaded a save, recorded the midi, and played it back. Still messed up when played back in MUNT despite being fine during gameplay.
I gotta admit though that the sound is very different between those two versions. I suspect that would be due to the newer version being more accurate overall?
In any case, I attached redid the MEGA Rar to have that midi file in there (as the forum won't let me attach an older version of MUNT's Midi seemingly).

Reply 3 of 9, by sergm

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Well, if rolling back does not help, it seems that the problem lays in something different. The recordings attached suggest that they are missing SysEx messages that contain custom timbres/patches. I'll double-check if the new version records them correctly, but the old version surely did that.

Reply 4 of 9, by sergm

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Checked MIDI recorder on Windows and found no problems.

Obviously, when I start recording after the initial bunch of SysExes has passed already, the captured MIDI sounds weird. But when I start recording before starting a game, everything is dandy. Maybe ScummVM sends the SysEx bank differently these days?

Reply 5 of 9, by Mrdangerous

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I think you may have solved my problem! I had actually seen stuff about SysExs while trying to solve this issue on my own, even on this forum. However, I didn't really understand them that well and figured that they were something the game simply kept sending out instead of just doing it at the beginning. I did a few recordings with MUNT, but took your advice and recorded from the Logo start up and kept it going through the entire process instead of simply recording at the part that I wanted. It seems to work from even loading when doing this!
If I have any new issues of this manner I will put them in this thread, but I think for the moment you helped me understand what my problem is.
Thanks for expanding my knowledge of midis more!

As a suggestion though, maybe the install of MUNT could come with a "general tips" sort of readme in the "Docs" folder to explain things like this to people such as myself without the deep knowledge of how Midis fundamentally work, especially older types like the non-standard MT-32 variety, along with that whole actually uninstalling everything when using the uninstall program instead of leaving the settings (or maybe have a tickbox option to add deleting the settings as well). Just some extra thoughts I wanted to throw out there, but in any case thank you very much sergm!

Reply 6 of 9, by sergm

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Great, I'm glad you figured it out.

BTW, I have one more tip on MIDI recording. When a game uploads new tones at the very startup only (which is a quite common case), you may make a recording of that timbre bank just once. To make other recordings sound "correct", you may merely prepend that SysEx bank to each of captured tracks using a good MIDI editor. Alternatively, just play that timbre bank before a tune (though, the emulated synth should be "pinned" to avoid resetting between the played MIDI files).

And yes, I'm all for improving documentation 😀

Reply 7 of 9, by Mrdangerous

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Ah, so I can simply record the logo track at the beginning of the game, save that as a midi, and then simply have that pinned in MUNT while I play other tracks? Or is there some special method required to save SysEX files in midi format? I assume the former, but no harm in asking if it's the latter.

Reply 8 of 9, by sergm

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Yes, I mean exactly having a single "init" recording with just SysExes. But that will work if the game only loads custom timbres once at startup, of course. Some games are known to send timbres per tune, and rarely, even while playing a tune.