VOGONS


First post, by Lachlant1984

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Hi.

I've bought a lot of DOS games from GOG.com and the games generally work just fine in my mid 2010 Apple iMac without any serious problems. But, I just bought a new HP laptop with Windows 10 on it, the computer has an Intel Core i5 8250U CPU in it and it has 8 GB of RAM and a Realtek HD Audio card in it. When I play my DOSBox games on the computer, I notice there's some sound lag or latency in the games, sounds are out of sync with the onscreen visuals, so when an event happens on screen the sound associated with that event happens maybe a quarter of a second or half a second behind the onscreen event. The lag varies from game to game, in Epic Pinball and Jazz Jackrabbit for instance, the lag is there but it's far less noticeable, but in many of my other games such as Rise Of The Triad, SimCity, The Catacomb games and Tyrian, the lag is very noticeable. The games generally play just fine and there's no other issue such as slow frame rates, just problems with the sound effects, it probably affects the music too, but it's not as easy to notice because of course the music plays all the time. I've contacted GOG and they suggested a number of things such as making sure my drivers are up to date, which I think they are, installing DirectX 9, setting the graphics settings for the games to specific settings and also running Windows 10 in a clean boot environment, but so far none of these helped. They also suggested installing and running the SVN Daun DOSBox version, but I haven't yet had the motivation to do that. I'm a newbie to Windows 10 and since most of the DOS games I play are wrapped up in a Windows installer and I've previously used Boxer on my iMac, my DOSBox knowledge isn't too good. Has anyone else had issues like this on computers with Realtek sound cards in them? GOG told me they've not had other people complain about this so they couldn't help me. The other other thing I should do is contact HP technical support or possibly contact Realtek and see what they suggest. The laptop in question is an HP Laptop 15-BS143TU by the way. If anyone can suggest anything, that would be wonderful. Thanks everyone.

Reply 1 of 41, by Qbix

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For all other people wanting to help: Please do not suggest installing other builds at this time. (I will do that in a later step if needed)

First of all, let me give a summary (The already taken steps and PC details, can be read in your starting post) and ask a few more questions:

On your new windows 10 PC, you have have noticable more delay between screen events and the audio, compared to your Mac.
This delay seems to vary for each game.

Little delay: Epic Pinball and Jazz Jackrabbit
A lot of delay: Rise Of The Triad, SimCity, The Catacomb games and Tyrian

Some questions:

0) Is the summary correct ?

1) You said that everything appears to play correctly, but lets focus a bit on the audio nonetheless. Is it stuttering or missing tiny fragments ?

2) Can you enter the folder of where you installed Rise of The Triad (ROTT from now on), inside it, there should be a DOSBOX folder. Enter it
Now double click on DOSBox (the one with the icon) and 2 screens should pop up. (probably on top of each other)
Please take a look at the one with the title "DOSBox Status Window"
Please write down what is written there. (or make screenshot)

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Reply 2 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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Hi.

I'll take a look at the DOSBox startup screen tomorrow and let you know what happens. But I'll answer your other questions now. Your summary is correct. I hear no stutter, crackling or popping or missing audio fragments as far as I can tell, though sometimes there is slight breakup or the audio pauses very briefly, is that the kind of thing you're talking about? I think occasionally there would sometimes be very slight audio breakup on the Mac too. As I say, I'll take a look at the DOSBox startup thing tomorrow. I have also as of today, tried my games on 2 other Windows 10 PCs, a generic desktop with what I think is an Intel Core i5, and a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon and they both presented the same issues, so I think this problem isn't specific to my laptop. I have created DXDiag files for both computers.

Reply 3 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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By the way I should also point out that GOG suggested I try using SVN Daum DOSBox, I think that's what it's called. I've downloaded it, but haven't yet had the time to actually try to install or use it on the laptop, I don't know if that will address this issue or not.

Reply 5 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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Here's the screenshot of the DOSBox settings window.

Reply 6 of 41, by Qbix

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Alright, so the blocksize is not giving errors (which would have been displayed in the screenshot)

I'll pm you some files today (a replacement dosbox and replacement gog configuration file that works with that) to see if that helps.

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Reply 7 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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No worries, thanks. Today I tried Hocus Pocus and ROTT on my brother's PC and it too had sound lag issues, much the same as the issues I'm having on my laptop and the other 2 PCs I've tried my games on thus far. My brother even has a Logitech USB headset, I tried the games with and without the USB headset but the results were much the same.

Reply 8 of 41, by Qbix

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Thanks,
I have send you a PM containing an updated configuration file and an updated build. Let us see if it helps or not, if it does we could figure out which change did it; and if it doesn't, we can try something else.

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Reply 9 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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Thanks, I got your message too. I should point out 2 things. First, I generally change the graphics mode to OpenGL as I've noticed, as I think others have too, that if you leave the graphics mode set to Overlay, there are long pauses present if the game your playing changes resolution during gameplay, (Epic Pinball and most notably Jazz Jackrabbit have this problem at least on my laptop). Someone in the GOG forum sugessted setting the graphics mode to OpenGL and it really does work. There's another advantage to using OpenGL that I discovered. I'm vision impaired and so I have to use a screen magnifier when I use the computer. If I set the graphics mode to OpenGL, DOSBox overrides my screen magnifier and so the game image doesn't get magnified unless of course the game is running in Windowed mode. Speaking of which, GOG did suggest running the game in Windowed mode as well as changing the graphics mode to OpenGL, they also suggested setting the window resolution to match the resolution of my computer's screen, none of these suggestions helped address the sound problem. The second thing I should say is that when I play Jazz Jackrabbit I do notice some audio breakup/skipping/stuttering when I select the difficulty level and the game proceeds to the episode selection screen, the audio glitches aren't serious and don't happen during actual gameplay unless I toggle between full screen mode and windowed mode, I think that actually happens in all my DOSBox games. Nevertheless I'll try your configuration file and see what that does.

Reply 10 of 41, by Qbix

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Well the original configuration file was far from optimal and this new build should work better as well. But lets await your testing first.

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Reply 11 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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Hi.

I've just tested your files, I copied them to the appropriate folders and then I ran the game, the sound works perfectly, there's no delay at all anymore. I haven't actually read through the configuration file, but I opened the Graphic Mode Setup utility that comes with GOG's games and I think all my settings were still set, graphic mode was set to OpenGL, fullscreen mode was on, scailing engine was set on none, windowed resolution was set on original, and double buffer and keep aspect ratio were both off. Clearly when you run the graphic mode setup utility it doesn't read your DOSBox configuration file unless you make changes then save your settings. I didn't try the files one at a time. What did you change? Once we've determined what the problem is, should we notify GOG so they can implement the fix?

Reply 12 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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I tried running the game in full screen mode, I know your config file is set to windowed mode. When I switched the game to fullscreen mode, the game froze for about 5 seconds or so before it resumed playing, I've noticed this behaviour when switching from fullscreen to windowed mode if I have the graphics mode set to overlay, which is the default when I install DOSBox games, certainly it's the default with GOG's games, without opening the config file and reading through it, I don't know what changes you've made. I'm pleased to see that you've been able to fix the sound issues, thank you.

Reply 13 of 41, by krcroft

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Also interested in the fix, whether it arrive as a new revision to SVN or conf file adjustment.

Reply 14 of 41, by Qbix

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krcroft, do you have the same problem with Rise of the Triads or in general with dosbox or gog releases ?

Lachlant, Let use try to find out what specificly caused it.
If possible, I would recommend reinstalling the game and replacing only the configuration file or only the new executable to see which one is responsible. (or maybe it is both)
Given that you are on windows 10, I think that the configuration file changes are the most likely, but that is a guess.

The 5 second delay is something I suffer from myself as well. It spurred some changes in dosbox actually that deal with games that change the screen dimensions a lot which would be a slide show (of 5 seconds per frame) due the same problem.

The utlity of gog, I don't like using it very much, as it writes out the configuration file with the wrong line ends, so it becomes unworkable in notepad. (functionality wise it doesn't matter though)

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Reply 15 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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I will try reinstalling ROTT and see what gives. I have noticed when I open the configuration files in NotePad, the text is all over the place, it's no longer nicely formatted and finding the options you want to change becomes a real pain, but it's the quickest and easiest way for me to change the settings I want to change. What I can tell you is that I very briefly tested the new version of DOSBox you sent me with Shadow Warrior and SimCity 2000, it made no difference, in fact, now DOSBox won't automatically shut down when I quit SimCity, I didn't replace the configuration files for those games, just the DOSBox SVN file. Do you want me to uninstall then reinstall ROTT and replace only the config file and not replace DOSBox? I'll try that and we'll see what happens. Also, subsequently to testing your replacement files, I did go and change the graphics settings to how I want them, now ROTT plays perfectly on my laptop without the sound delays and 5 second pauses when changing from full screen to windowed mode. I'll do some further testing and see what gives.

Reply 16 of 41, by Qbix

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alright, so it might be in the configuration file. SimCity 2000 not shutting down. Got to check that.

Ideally, I would like you to do what you proposed for ROTT, (so uninstall, reinstall, only replace configfile) (and if possible, uninstall, reinstall, only replace dosbox)
and see which one removes the lag you are experiencing.

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Reply 17 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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I just reinstalled ROTT and tested it with the original config file, then replaced the config file and tested it again, and there was no delay in the audio after I tested the replacement config file, so chances are very good that the config files for my DOSBox games are to blame for the problems. Changing the graphics mode to OpenGL with the replacement config file in place didn't reintroduce the delay, so the graphics mode you select doesn't affect sound, it normally shouldn't but I think it was worth mentioning that anyway. Hmm, do you still want me to reinstall the game and only replace DOSBox? ROTT has several .conf files, I'm thinking the others are for multiplayer game support, I'm hoping they don't also create sound issues. Once we've concluded beyond reasonable doubt that the config file is to blame, will you let GOG know, or should I? I think they should know what's going on, they say I'm the only person who's reported these issues, but since I've tried the game in several PCs, all with the same result, I've a feeling others may be having the same issue and just haven't reported it.

Reply 18 of 41, by Qbix

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Well, I would like you to run a few more tests. I want to figure out which settting(s) are to blame (for completeness sake). Should be fairly quick system of adding the the gog specific changes in groups, till it the delay is back.

I'll pm you the files.

There is no need to do replace executable if the configfile fixed it.

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Reply 19 of 41, by Lachlant1984

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OK, I'll take a look at it over the weekend. Thanks for all your help, I appreciate it. I've been dealing with Dr Cat from GOG, Dr Cat has been handling my case.