Problem there is that we have our hands full implementing features and fixes into DosBox and testing to make sure that compatibility is not broken. We have no time to help other companies make money without compensation to us.

Doing all of the work for Valve on how to implement DosBox properly on STEAM with no compensation is something that we definetly would not do.

About the only way people here would help Valve for free is if it was something "small" like Valve asking how to do something properly with DosBox, like directory structure or using one DosBox install with game as subdirectories. (sigh...too bad they didn't implement physfs), or testing the installation and playtesting the games in DosBox.

I understand the point you are making, but you shouldn't dismiss this opportunity without even looking into it. It may be that Valve would be willing to take care of the porting into Steam, as long as they had your permission to do so. They are making a profit from every game sold on Steam, and they do have an incentive to do so.

Okay,

ID Software takes DosBox.
They do not contact the DosBox team.
They rip files they want to use out of the DosBox install and do not include files that MUST be included.
They also modify files that shouldn't be modified.
They do not configure the .conf files correctly for the game.
They include multiple DosBox files when they should just use one install.
They use an older version of DosBox when they could have contacted the DosBox devs and uses Dosbox 0.71 (which would have handily fixed the DEP issues that people are experiencing now with the Steam release).
They rip out needed files included with the original games so users cannot configure the original games without alot of hassle.

All of the above has caused and is currently causing users to blame DosBox and the older games for being crap because they are not working or are not working optimally.

So far Valve/ID hasn't done jack except to put up a quick rip of DosBox and the Games and push it out over Steam for some quick $$$.

Explain to me why the DosBox team should bend over backwards for Valve/ID?

Whoa there, buddy. This all just happened today - no one knows what happened. All we know is that id released some games on Steam, and those games use DosBox 0.70 with some critical stuff stripped out. Everything else you've brought up is just speculation.

And the reason you should do it now is because you've got leverage over Valve for fucking up on a license agreement. You would hardly be bending over backwards for them. Valve would be better off porting DosBox to Steam than having DosBox support pulled out from under them. And that's a lot of work that YOU won't have to do. A lot of work that makes you look better. Do you understand why this would be a good thing now? Learn how to control your aggression a little better in the future.

ID Software takes DosBox. They do not contact the DosBox team. They rip files they want to use out of the DosBox install and do […]
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ID Software takes DosBox.
They do not contact the DosBox team.
They rip files they want to use out of the DosBox install and do not include files that MUST be included.
They also modify files that shouldn't be modified.
They do not configure the .conf files correctly for the game.
They include multiple DosBox files when they should just use one install.
They use an older version of DosBox when they could have contacted the DosBox devs and uses Dosbox 0.71 (which would have handily fixed the DEP issues that people are experiencing now with the Steam release).
They rip out needed files included with the original games so users cannot configure the original games without alot of hassle.

I see no speculation there at all.
The reason why people are upset are also quite good summed up by DosFreak

All of the above has caused and is currently causing users to blame DosBox and the older games for being crap because they are not working or are not working optimally.

I think it's too bad that people seem determined to see this in a negative light, instead of as an opportunity.

I want to reiterate though, that since all this is STILL UNFOLDING, there is a lot of speculation, and very little fact. All that we really know is that id released some games on Steam, and some of those games use DosBox 0.70 with some critical changes. That's it.

It may well be that they did all this without contacting the DosBox team, but until the whole team can verify that they weren't contacted by anyone for this purpose, and as long as they aren't forgetting that they were contacted, this is still speculation. And as far as I know, only part of the team has spoken about this. It may very well be in the DosBox team's best interest then to make sure that this is a fact, instead of just speculation before you get too deep into this.

There's no evidence that it was id who chose to do this. In fact, it is more likely that Activision is the one directly responsible, but it's still speculation as to who is responsible.

And as far as I can tell, no one is blaming DosBox for the problems that are happening. It's way too early to tell, and it's really just speculation. To give this as a reason for being upset is not really being fair. I know you're upset, but it would appear that the reason is more that your team wasn't contacted before this happened, and that the implementation was poor.

Rather than focusing on areas that are speculative and unclear at this point, you should probably focus on finding out for sure if the DosBox team was contacted or not. Additionally, you should be trying to decide on how to deal with the implementation problems. I suggested that you should negotiate with Valve for a full release of DosBox on Steam to fix the implementation problems, but you are still very much able to simply pull DosBox out from under them if that's what you really want. Whatever you decide on, I hope you think about it before you leap into action.

but until the whole team can verify that they weren't contacted by anyone for this purpose

Confirmed by the whole team.
Until there's any response from valve about their license violation,
there's no point in discussing further actions.

I think it's too bad that people seem determined to see this in a negative light, instead of as an opportunity.

The only positive light is that people can buy the game from Steam and then copy the games out of the STEAM folders and use them with the DosBox 0.71 download or they can use the source ports for the games that have them. People are already doing this......which is sad because the games should work "out of the box". (I'm sure some do like Keen work "out of the box" but they probably still require tweaking which isn't helped by the README and dosbox.conf being remove/modified to take out the comments).

The rest is negative. Unless you count the $$ going to valve/ID as a positive? Judging by your posts you do.

I want to reiterate though, that since all this is STILL UNFOLDING, there is a lot of speculation, and very little fact. All that we really know is that id released some games on Steam, and some of those games use DosBox 0.70 with some critical changes. That's it.

It may well be that they did all this without contacting the DosBox team, but until the whole team can verify that they weren't contacted by anyone for this purpose, and as long as they aren't forgetting that they were contacted, this is still speculation. And as far as I know, only part of the team has spoken about this. It may very well be in the DosBox team's best interest then to make sure that this is a fact, instead of just speculation before you get too deep into this.

There is alot of fact and very little speculation. The only things we don't know are the details of the Valve/ID collaboartion and what their thoughts are on using DosBox with their old games BECAUS THEY HAVE NOT CONTACTED US.

I REPEAT THEY DID NOT CONTACT THE DOSBOX TEAM. Qbix (a DosBox developer and the main contact) verified this up above.

There's no evidence that it was id who chose to do this. In fact, it is more likely that Activision is the one directly responsible, but it's still speculation as to who is responsible.

The press release http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area= … s&id=1141&cc=US mentions ID Software. I would hope that Valve would actually communicate with ID Software before posting their games......

And as far as I can tell, no one is blaming DosBox for the problems that are happening. It's way too early to tell, and it's really just speculation. To give this as a reason for being upset is not really being fair. I know you're upset, but it would appear that the reason is more that your team wasn't contacted before this happened, and the implementation was poor.

Browse the various forums on the internet. You'll see people having problems with the games in DosBox. Scaler/Speed/DEP/Input/Fullscreen/Window issues from my quick browsing.

We are "upset" (I'd say annoyed) for many reasons some of which I listed above.

Additionally, you should be trying to decide on how to deal with the implementation problems. I suggested that you should negotiate with Valve for a full release of DosBox on Steam to fix the implementation problems, but you are still very much able to simply pull DosBox out from under them if that's what you really want. Whatever you decide on, I hope you think about it before you leap into action.

DosBox is GPL. Valve/ID Software or anyone can do whatever the heck they want to do with it as long as they follow the license. It is not our job to deal with Valve/ID Software's implementation of DosBox. IT IS THEIR JOB. They are making $$$ off of this. We are not. We work on DosBox on our own free time with no compensation whatsovever and as you can see with no acknoledgment or respect from the companies that use DosBox.

The only game company that I am aware personally that is friendly with DosBox is Joe Siegler at 3DRealms and 2K games for RailRoad Tycoon. AFAIK, that's it.

Seeing as you just verified that your team wasn't contacted, I apologize for suggesting that it was speculation that your team wasn't contacted. I think your team has every right to be upset then.

You should probably start discussing about possible future courses of action with your team now though, so that you are better prepared when you do get a response from Valve. I'm sorry that you got stuck with something like this out of the blue, but I want you to know that I appreciate the work you and your team do. I've been using DosBox for a long time, and I hope everything works out for the best for you guys.