VOGONS

Common searches


DOSBOX fork with better FM synthesis?

Topic actions

Reply 40 of 65, by nukeykt

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
James-F wrote:

It's the exact same file reposted

Are you sure?

Attachments

  • Filename
    Lion YMF719.mp3
    File size
    2.13 MiB
    Downloads
    74 downloads
    File comment
    Old
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    Lion YMF719 (1).mp3
    File size
    2.13 MiB
    Downloads
    65 downloads
    File comment
    New
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 41 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Open Volume Conterol (right bottom corner).
Click Options -> Properties.
Enable "3D WIDE" from the list, click OK.
Mute "3D WIDE".

Alternative:
Control Panel -> OPL3-SAx Config.
Lower "3D Enhanced Ymersion" fader to zero.

Are you sure?

The only thing I did is to remove the audio isolation transformer (prevent ground loop noises) because it highpassed the signal therefor removing the low bass.
But apparently there is a bug as you knowledgeably guessed, and you were right.
I can recreate and fix the bug by switching midi outputs and going back to FM output.
Strange bug indeed.

I'll re-post the proper recording of the YMF719 yet again!
This time I hope it'll sound just as the YMF262, which it should.

EDIT:
Fixed.
Now a proper YMF719 (tagged V3) recording is on the first page.
It sound exactly the same as the YMF262 or NukedOPL3 recordings.

I want to address Dosbox developers;
I believe Nuked-OPL3 should replace dosbox OPL emulation as it is undoubtedly the most accurate as many examples on this thread suggest.
Many other popular mainstream OPL software already implemented nuked-OPL3 and DOSBox should do too.
It may be to bold of a request, but we strive for accuracy don't we?


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 42 of 65, by evgs

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I agree with you, the sound of nuked OPL3 emulation core is more accurate than others.

Here is prince of persia FLAC recorded from Sound Blaster 16 CT1740 (YMF262-M):
hwm.us.to/famimusic/Upload/Prince%20of% ... F262).flac
vs the nuked emu:
http://hwm.us.to/famimusic/Upload/pop_nuked_emu.flac 😀

Reply 44 of 65, by Stretch

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I have no FM MIDI devices in Windows98 so the Falcon MIDI player didn't play through the OPL chip.

I rebooted into MS-DOS and instead use Yamaha's FMMIDI.exe.

I prefer Nuked now as I can easily hear how dry the YMF-744 is.

Attachments

  • Filename
    lion10-ymf744.mp3
    File size
    2.12 MiB
    Downloads
    96 downloads
    File comment
    Yamaha YMF-744
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Win11 - AMD Ryzen 9 3900 - 16 GB - GeForce RTX 2060S - Sound BlasterX AE5-Plus
Win98SE - ASRock 775i65G R3.0 - Celeron 2.2 GHz - 2 GB - GeForce FX5700 - Ensoniq 1373
Win98SE - Via Apollo Pro Mobo - Pentium II 233 - 256 MB - Voodoo 3 1000 - ESS Solo-1 1938

Reply 45 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Actually, the YMF744 should sound exactly the same as the 719/718, 262 or Nuked-opl3.
This is just another bad recording and in mono.

To properly compare the recordings they have to be at least similar sounding and volume matched.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 46 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

@nukeyk

Here is how to disable 3D, Ymersion, and put treble and bass to 0 (flat) on the YMF718 cards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_L_1tvH1Ew

The 718 is slightly different than the 719 so you probably did not see the settings I was mentioning.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 48 of 65, by Dominus

User metadata
Rank DOSBox Moderator
Rank
DOSBox Moderator

Is it in their patch tracker?

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 50 of 65, by Dominus

User metadata
Rank DOSBox Moderator
Rank
DOSBox Moderator

SF seems to work better

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 51 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Here is an example where DOSBox Fast or Compat is absolutely wrong in very popular game (and my favorite)!

Mortal Kombat 2 intro:
Nuked-OPL sounds exactly like YMF719.
DOSBox-Fast has higher pitched clicking sound, has various pitch issues.
DOSBox-Compat has completely different Kick AND clicking sounds, the worst pitch issues and completely different to the original OPL.

This is not a slight difference, this is very obvious.
* Put your headphones on because speaker may not represent the difference clearly.

Attachments

  • Filename
    MK2 OPL.7z
    File size
    2.47 MiB
    Downloads
    120 downloads
    File comment
    YMF719, Nuked, Fast, Compat
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 53 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Yeah you definitely need a good pair of headphones and a trained ear, but the difference is there and quite obvious once you spot it.
If you are a musician you should be trained to discern individual instruments in a mix simply by focusing on them without a problem.

Start by listening to the KICK drum between the Nuked and Compat tracks, this is the most obvious difference.
Now listen for sharper ticking sound on the Fast track compared to Nuked.

The fact that DOSBox OPL emulation is less accurate and clearly audible in comparison to Nuked should be a quite sufficient reason for the devs to simple go ahead and implement Nuked-OPL in DOSBox.
It's not like nukeykt is asking for royalties... 😎

Last edited by James-F on 2016-08-23, 09:50. Edited 2 times in total.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 54 of 65, by KainXVIII

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
James-F wrote:
Yeah you definitely need a good pair of headphones and a trained ear, but the difference is there and quite obvious once you spo […]
Show full quote

Yeah you definitely need a good pair of headphones and a trained ear, but the difference is there and quite obvious once you spot it.
If you are a musician you should be trained to discern individual instruments in a mix simply by focusing on them without a problem.

Start by listening to the KICK drum between the Nuked and Compat tracks, this is the most obvious difference.
Now listen for sharper ticking sound on the Fast track compared to Nuked.

Yeah, with my headphones i hear slight difference, but if you had not told me where, maybe i never found out myself 😵

Reply 55 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Starting at second 00:08 till the end the lead instrument is completely different with the the ES1688.
Strangely this is the only instrument that sounds different, all others sound exactly the same between the three.

Now what is more accurate, the ES1688 which is known to have very accurate OPL3 or YMF/Nuked?
Can someone with a SB-PRO 2 card record the Stunts intro screen (with the blue car), to verify this?

Attachments

  • Filename
    Stunts 2 OPL YMF719.mp3
    File size
    341.92 KiB
    Downloads
    98 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    Stunts 2 OPL Nuked.mp3
    File size
    350.73 KiB
    Downloads
    106 downloads
    File comment
    It sound like the YMF719
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    Stunts 2 OPL ES1688.mp3
    File size
    311.36 KiB
    Downloads
    100 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 56 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Another example where Nuked OPL is different to the ES1688-OPL.
I believe it's the same waveform that sounds different on the Stunts track.

Right away you can hear the clicks are more metallic with Nuked-OPL and the Saxophone instrument is "wobbly" and un-even.
The ES1688 here sounds better to me as with the Stunts example.

Attachments

  • Filename
    War Nuked-OPL.mp3
    File size
    1.04 MiB
    Downloads
    121 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    War ES1688.mp3
    File size
    1.03 MiB
    Downloads
    114 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
Last edited by James-F on 2016-08-27, 09:00. Edited 2 times in total.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 57 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I got a reply from nukeykt and I want to share it:

nukeykt wrote:

ESS's opl3 clone is not perfect. I heard doom's e1m1 on ess card on youtube. Dist guitar sounded slightly wrong compared to real OPL3(ymf262 and 718). Also check out opl3 comparison videos with alloyrun and wheelchair tracks from at2 on youtube.
I think ess's opl3 has incorrect feedback algorithm(like in many clones), which never was described in OPLx datasheets and manuals. Feedback first correctly was emulated in MAME's OPL emulators. DOSBox, Nuked, Java OPL3 and many others use MAME's feedback findings. I also rcently verified feedback on Nuked OPL3 and got bit-perfect sample compared to YMF262 OPL3.

Then there is this post by jwt27 which explains the same including an audio example:
OPL3 implementations (ESFM, Crystal FM, dual OPL3 etc)

And finally there are these examples of all variant of the OPL chips including the ESS one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6IITanvS6Y
Files: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/kw7rmycagwqq … parison%20Video

So the ES1688 OPL is different to the original YMF262 OPL3 chip.
One might like the other more, but there is only one true master when it comes to accuracy: YMF262 (or Nuked-OPL).


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 58 of 65, by James-F

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

For people who compiled Nuked-OPL with DOSBox SVN or using the provided SVN-3990+Nuked by nukeykt in the Patch subforum.
Make absolutely sure that both the Mixer and oplrate set to 49716 in DOSBox config else there is high level of harmonic distortion in the OPL emulation.


my important / useful posts are here

Reply 59 of 65, by nukeykt

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

arrock1.mid and lion10.mid played on OPL2 chip:

Attachments

  • Filename
    lion10-ym3812.mp3
    File size
    2.06 MiB
    Downloads
    87 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    arrock1-ym3812.mp3
    File size
    2.83 MiB
    Downloads
    83 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception