You know that's just the start 😊

Wife better be prepared for a 486 to enter the house soon 🤣

On a CRT it's best to use surface. It also depends on the video card and their handling of surface output. 10 years ago i've had Radeons display incorrect color shades in surface (particularily shades and gradients of purple), and Geforces slowing down massively with palette changes

But i haven't used Dosbox on a crt in years and i've really been using some direct3d-patch'd version with cgwg's crt shader at least. I'm so used to it that it's not really a novelty anymore.

In my opinion: YES!
I miss the "real black" on my TFT that my CRTs had.
And you also need a CRT to use 3D Shutter glasses like the ones by Zonica, Metabyte or ELSA.

I kept my Dell P1110 for that reason 😀

Before you buy, check around any local businesses that are desperate to get rid of their CRTs. They may be glad to have you take them off your hands. 😀

Arctic wrote:

I miss the "real black" on my TFT that my CRTs had.

My thoughts exactly! My main machine (and the one I used for Dosbox) is a MacBook Air, which has an average screen for a laptop, I think. And I can say that even my Compaq's budget 14 inch CRT (definitely not Trinitron or anything fancy) is way more vivid than that.

So, for me CRTs are not about screen ratio or dot pitch size, but rather about "true" black and vivid colors.

The only issue I have with later models is the fact that they need constant readjustment. I have two models with OSDs that keep different size/centering/shape for EVERY resolution/refresh rate/etc. AFAIK, analog models don't have that problem (at least, my Compaq doesn't). I don't know how people lived with that issue, but it's incredibly annoying. So if I were you, I would get an older 14-15" model with analog controls — unless you're builing a late 90s or early 2000s system. It's also much smaller than a 17", so your wife might appreciate that.

clueless1 wrote:

Before you buy, check around any local businesses that are desperate to get rid of their CRTs. They may be glad to have you take them off your hands. 😀

Aren't home used screens more desirable? I mean, an office screen is guaranteed to have had 8 hour usage for 5 days a week for several years. Which is why it won't last as long.

In my experience, home users are just as eager to get rid of CRTs =)

jheronimus wrote:

clueless1 wrote:

Before you buy, check around any local businesses that are desperate to get rid of their CRTs. They may be glad to have you take them off your hands. 😀

Aren't home used screens more desirable? I mean, an office screen is guaranteed to have had 8 hour usage for 5 days a week for several years. Which is why it won't last as long.

In my experience, home users are just as eager to get rid of CRTs =)

Good point. My thought was that it would be *easier* to find a CRT by asking local businesses. You might call a few local businesses and end up with a monitor that same day, whereas it might take weeks to find a local individual that still has one they are trying to get rid of.

For me I'm prepared to sacrifice the image quality for the convenients of TFT.
I've spent many years looking at slowly dying crts attached to servers, test benches etc, I don't miss those days.
I only replaced my CRT last month as it didn't like the move, just needed a degauss but it wasn't a high quality brand and I don't have any old consoles.

But if you care that much then go for it, they definitely have their good points!

CRTs don't have motion blur (unlike LCDs sample-and-hold); accept many resolutions, aspect ratios and refresh rates; have perfect gamma and color at any angle; no blur due to stretching; and no gradation artifacts.
But most importantly: 640/720x400@70Hz and 640x480@60Hz resolutions are perfectly reproduced for DOS games with that beautiful 400/480 scanlines you've subconsciously grown to love.
Moreover, games like Mortal Kombat (MAME) can be played in their native 800x504@55Hz resolution or Street Fighter at 768x448@60Hz which is a rare treat.

If you have the space in the room and like games from the CRT era, do it, it's the best and most authentic experience you'll get with dosbox and other emulators.
Note that dosbox and other emulators have to be properly set to display the games at their native resolution and refresh rate without horizontal tearing (Vsync).

I do sometimes miss my old' 14" PS/2 monitor too.
How could I forget that soft, blurry image and its tenderly flaring behind of its phosphorus afterglow. 😊

CRTs are great, especially the monochromes without mask. Their pictures are somewhat soft and clean at times.
Makes me think of that b/w portable I had as a child. I must have been about 5 years young, when my dad gave it to me.
It also had a builtin radio and ran on huge batteries (mono cells ?).

I still collect the older monochromes because of this. I do also have a little collection of Hercules monitors now.
Their slow afterglow is relaxing and soothing to the eyes. Maybe I can find an amber video monitor some time.. ^^

On machines that run less then native rez on common LCD I think CRT is best.

James-F wrote:

CRTs don't have motion blur

Phosphor persistence is a thing.

James-F wrote:

have perfect gamma and color at any angle;

color pollution is a common phenomenon, especially with red on cyan on computer monitors

leileilol wrote:

James-F wrote:

CRTs don't have motion blur

Phosphor persistence is a thing.

Indeed... I tried to do a smooth scroller on Hercules... This is what my 5151 made of it:
https://youtu.be/YphXvVRoifw

Granted, colour CRTs tend to have phosphor with much lower persistence than mono screens, but the effect is still there.

Scali wrote:

Indeed... I tried to do a smooth scroller on Hercules... This is what my 5151 made of it: https://youtu.be/YphXvVRoifw […]
Show full quote

leileilol wrote:

James-F wrote:

CRTs don't have motion blur

Phosphor persistence is a thing.

Indeed... I tried to do a smooth scroller on Hercules... This is what my 5151 made of it:
https://youtu.be/YphXvVRoifw

Granted, colour CRTs tend to have phosphor with much lower persistence than mono screens, but the effect is still there.

I suppose there is no demo out there that has ever intentionally really tried to make use of the slow phosphor decay of the IBM 5151 monitor and its compatibles using a Hercules card. Something you couldn't capture through a capture card.

Great Hierophant wrote:

I suppose there is no demo out there that has ever intentionally really tried to make use of the slow phosphor decay of the IBM 5151 monitor and its compatibles using a Hercules card. Something you couldn't capture through a capture card.

Well, when making a demo, you have to deal with it. Either you intentionally use it as an added effect... or you have to design your graphics and effects in a way that the slow decay doesn't turn everything into one green slush (that was the problem with my scroller).
The only Hercules demo I know is Three shades of gray: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8E9kIfZiGA
It is filmed from an actual screen, so you get the blur.

By the way, the different colours of monochrome are actually a side-effect of the type of phosphor used. The green phosphor is the slowest type. Amber is medium and white has the fastest decay.
I originally tried my scroller on my Philips amber screen, which is less blurry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG9wo6gG9Sw

The phosphor persistence with "modern" (early 2000s) PC CRT monitors to motion blur is nothing compared to LCDs sample-and-hold nature.

512x480 (NES), 512x448 (SNES), 640x448 (Genesis) and other custom MAME resolution like 768x448 (Street Fighter) and 800x508@55 (Mortal Kombat), and obviously 640x400@70 for DOSBox.
Playing games in their native resolution, aspect ratio, refresh rates, color gamut, and zero motion blur... LCD can only kneel and kiss the heels of that.
There is absolutely no argument that games/software/consoles that were designed to be viewed on a CRT are best viewed on a CRT.

James-F wrote:

The phosphor persistence with "modern" (early 2000s) PC CRT monitors to motion blur is nothing compared to LCDs sample-and-hold nature.

I would argue that "modern" LCD screens have very little motion blur as well. I don't know what kind of crappy LCDs you've used, but in recent years, motion blur hasn't been something that has been bothering me with LCD screens. They don't all use sample-and-hold, you know. There are ways to reduce motion blur, and improve response time.

Please educate yourself about sample-and-hold and motion blur.

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/
http://www.cnet.com/news/black-frame-insertio … lus-to-lcd-tvs/

Have a look:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking
http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=queb … suit=0&height=0

All these test are perfectly clear and visible on a CRT without any motion blur.
Sample-and-hold is just the way a LCD displays the image, the image stays on screen until a new one replaces it, unlike a CRT which flashes the image (actually draws line by line) and stays black unit a new image is drawn.
Your brain actually creates the blur in sample-and-hold technology (LCD,OLED), because the brain expects the object to be in a different place while it is still in the old place.
CRT is must for side scrollers.

James-F wrote:

Please educate yourself about sample-and-hold and motion blur.

Why? Because I don't share your opinion?

Your links support my point: LCD screens can use various techniques to reduce motion blur and improve response time, including pulsing strategies, ramping and dark frame insertion. End of discussion.

James-F wrote:

CRT is must for side scrollers.

Nonsense. I have a number of LCD screens that can play side scrollers just fine without any noticeable motion blur.