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DOSBox And Physical Floppy Drive Question

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First post, by plamy1969

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I have a little DOS program which formats, reads, writes a special diskettes for my synthesizer. I used this program successfully on WinXP, but impossible on Win7 x64. Therefore I tried to open the program with DOSBox. DOSBox runs the program successfully with all its commands for format, read, write, extract, edit, etc. But since my physical floppy is not mounted to DOSBox, the program gives an error, i.e. doesn't find the floppy drive.
So, my question is: if I mount the floppy in DOSBox, then how can I run the program so that it can see and control the floppy drive? Is it possible?
Please for any help and suggestions!
Big thanks in advance!

Reply 1 of 83, by DosFreak

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You'd probably be better off with a USB floppy drive used inside of a VM (Virtualbox,Vmware,etc) if you can't find a windows ver of the same DOS program you are using.

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Reply 2 of 83, by plamy1969

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DosFreak wrote:

You'd probably be better off with a USB floppy drive used inside of a VM (Virtualbox,Vmware,etc) if you can't find a windows ver of the same DOS program you are using.

Not sure I understand your point. I tried WinXP in VirtualBox, but this guest WinXP doesn't recognize the floppy drive. If I knew how to enable my floppy drive in the host WinXP in VirtualBox, then I'd have success. I followed the instructions how to add floppy in VirtualBox, but the guest WinXP doesn't see it and the option there for adding the floppy is always inactive, i.e. not possible to do that.
Any help would be welcome!

Reply 3 of 83, by Jo22

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Virtual PC had the ability to talk to the real floppy drive.

You could try to install FreeDOS in VPC 2007.
Virtual PC 2007 works on Win x64.

And FAT formatted VHD files can be opened in WinImage, for example.

Edit: Oh and I almost forgot: VirtualBox now has the floppy controller disabled by default. For safety reasons or something. You have to manually enable it.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 4 of 83, by plamy1969

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Jo22 wrote:
Virtual PC had the ability to talk to the real floppy drive. […]
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Virtual PC had the ability to talk to the real floppy drive.

You could try to install FreeDOS in VPC 2007.
Virtual PC 2007 works on Win x64.

And FAT formatted VHD files can be opened in WinImage, for example.

If I install FreeDOS in VPC 2007, don't you think the result will be the same as in my description in the first post?
Are you sure that I can run my program in FreeDOS and to use the (F)ormat, (R)ead, (W)rite) and the other commands of the program to the floppy?
If you want, I can even attach the program (approx. 63kb), so that you can test if it can successfully work the way you describe?

Reply 5 of 83, by Jo22

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plamy1969 wrote:

If I install FreeDOS in VPC 2007, don't you think the result will be the same as in my description in the first post?
Are you sure that I can run my program in FreeDOS and to use the (F)ormat, (R)ead, (W)rite) and the other commands of the program to the floppy?

Sorry, I'm afraid I'm not up-to-date when it comes to DOSBox. 😅 I believed it doesn't support bare metal stuff like this.
But Virtual PC and a real floppy drive worked for me. I ran QCopy several times on it and it worked (albeit slow).
I was running real-mode DOS on it back then (v.6.22).

plamy1969 wrote:

If you want, I can even attach the program (approx. 63kb), so that you can test if it can successfully work the way you describe?

Sure. If you want, I could test your program on Virtual PC for you. But I haven't got VPC installed on my Windows machine, right now.
Perhaps the Mac version will also do for a quick test ? Their behavior should be similiar inside of the VM..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 6 of 83, by plamy1969

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Jo22 wrote:

Sorry, I'm afraid I'm not up-to-date when it comes to DOSBox. 😅 I believed it doesn't support bare metal stuff like this.
But Virtual PC and a real floppy drive worked for me. I ran QCopy several times on it and it worked (albeit slow).
I was running real-mode DOS on it back then (v.6.22).

And how did you make Virtual PC to recognize and control the real floppy drive using FreeDOS?

Reply 7 of 83, by Jo22

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plamy1969 wrote:
Jo22 wrote:

Sorry, I'm afraid I'm not up-to-date when it comes to DOSBox. 😅 I believed it doesn't support bare metal stuff like this.
But Virtual PC and a real floppy drive worked for me. I ran QCopy several times on it and it worked (albeit slow).
I was running real-mode DOS on it back then (v.6.22).

And how did you make Virtual PC to recognize and control the real floppy drive using FreeDOS?

I didn't. Virtualizers like Virtual PC, VmWare or VirtualBox do emulate the standard floppy controller.
To DOS it looks like you have got an ordinary floppy drive connected to an IBM compatible floppy controller.

The virtualisation software then passes these requests from your DOS program to any available
floppy drive your host operating system sees (the "host OS" is the OS your PC runs on. Like Windows 7 x64,
Linux or MacOS X).

This way, DOS needs no special driver or anything like this. It can work with USB floppy drives, SCSI floppy drives,
or internal floppy drives. In theory, you can even use 5.25" or 8" models with your VM.
Or you can use an image file, of couse (handled by the VM itself).

This depends solely on the ability of your host OS and the software inside the VM:
The emulated BIOS must be configured accordingly (it normaly is). If not, nothing is lost.
You can then use drivparm. The VM's emulated BIOS defaults to 1.44MB 3.5" type..

The only exception here are non-standard floppy drives, like LS-120 or ZIP.
They may need a special driver to work inside the VM. In this case, simply install Windows 98 inside you VM.
Virtual PC can pass-trough the parallel port, so you could use a parallel ZIP drive there.
But that's just an example. Let's don't make things more complicated than necessary. 😉

Edit: The Virtual PC window does have floppy tab, where you can choose between an image file and the real floppy "use physical drive A:".

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"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 9 of 83, by Jorpho

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Well, that's not supposed to happen.

Googling around suggests that there might be something else on your system not installed (or uninstalled) correctly, or that you might need to try closing other programs that are running.
http://www.vistax64.com/virtual-pc/180581-can … c-2007-sp1.html
https://community.flexerasoftware.com/archive … p?t-139480.html

Reply 10 of 83, by plamy1969

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Jorpho wrote:
Well, that's not supposed to happen. […]
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Well, that's not supposed to happen.

Googling around suggests that there might be something else on your system not installed (or uninstalled) correctly, or that you might need to try closing other programs that are running.
http://www.vistax64.com/virtual-pc/180581-can … c-2007-sp1.html
https://community.flexerasoftware.com/archive … p?t-139480.html

Actually, I wrote my last post after reading many forums about that matter, incl. the links above. No help.
VirtualBox installs with no problems, but can't run the floppy.

Reply 11 of 83, by Jorpho

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plamy1969 wrote:

Actually, I wrote my last post after reading many forums about that matter, incl. the links above. No help.

Thanks for letting us know.

VirtualBox installs with no problems, but can't run the floppy.

Should I look up instructions on how to enable the floppy controller in VirtualBox, or did you read many forums about that too?

Reply 12 of 83, by plamy1969

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Jorpho wrote:
Thanks for letting us know. […]
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plamy1969 wrote:

Actually, I wrote my last post after reading many forums about that matter, incl. the links above. No help.

Thanks for letting us know.

VirtualBox installs with no problems, but can't run the floppy.

Should I look up instructions on how to enable the floppy controller in VirtualBox, or did you read many forums about that too?

Yes, I did. Also followed the instructions from this video below (they are the same as described in many forums), but as you can see, it's possible to add the floppy in VirtualBox Settings>Storage, but not possible in the setting>storage of the windows of the guest OS. As I wrote earlier, the Add Floppy is inactive, it stays grey and everything is up to here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PyU5sA9Whc

Reply 13 of 83, by Jo22

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Is your floppy drive okay ? Try to connect it to another USB port, if possiple.
Perhaps it isn't correctly recognized.

I've re-checked and attached some photos for you.

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    My USB floppy drive and an old floppy with DOS 3.30
    File license
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  • fd_vm.png
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    Floppy drive selection in the VM window
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    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • fd.png
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    6076 views
    File comment
    Floppy drive settings in the machine settings
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 14 of 83, by plamy1969

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My floppy drive is physical and is not an external USB one!
Of course, it works with no any problems with my Win7 x32/64, also when I was with WinXP few years ago.
Probably the VirtualBox needs some driver to control the floppy drive...

Reply 15 of 83, by Jo22

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Did you install the VirtualBox Extension Pack ?

-> https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Otherwise, there's no need for additional drivers.
All low-level drivers were a part of the Installer.

Normally, you get a warning message from Windows 7 during VBox installation.
Perhaps you didn't allow these drivers to be installed ?

Anti-Virus software or Windows security settings could be the issue then..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 16 of 83, by Jo22

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Another idea..
Use a floppy image instead.

Then, use an image software and write that image back to your physical floppy.
There are several tools for this. WinImage, rawrite, Floppy Image, et cetera..

But be careful, any previous data on that floppy gets lost in the process..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 17 of 83, by plamy1969

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I will try to install Win98 on VirtualBox since the program I need to run and work successfully with is for Win98.
BUT: once I run a guest Win98 and suppose that it will see my floppy drive, then how to transfer (copy/paste) the files from my host Win7 x64 to the guest Win98? What have I to do?
P.S.: I also tried with win98bootdisk which includes the program I need. Successfully formatted the diskettes, even saw their directories, but couldn't find a way to copy or write any files to a diskette. Win98bootdisk creates special RAM (FAT formatted) where the program can run, but since all my hard disks are NTFS formatted, the program can't see anything on them. In this matter, can I use a USB stick as a FAT formatted c:\? I'm not sure what I'm talking about, just trying to find the best way.

Reply 18 of 83, by mrau

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afaik you can use the rawrite program on windows nt;
under linux this should be pretty straightforward, i wonder why microsoft still does not help their paying customers, what a weird business model;

Reply 19 of 83, by Jorpho

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plamy1969 wrote:

I will try to install Win98 on VirtualBox since the program I need to run and work successfully with is for Win98.

Why didn't you say so in the first place!? If that's the case, then DOSBox was probably never a good idea.

BUT: once I run a guest Win98 and suppose that it will see my floppy drive, then how to transfer (copy/paste) the files from my host Win7 x64 to the guest Win98? What have I to do?

Most virtual machines have some means of setting up a "shared folder" that can be accessed by both the host and the virtual machine (usually by using the virtual machine's network interface). Otherwise, you can always use a FAT-formatted USB stick, as you suggest.

P.S.: I also tried with win98bootdisk which includes the program I need.

I have no idea what you are referring to. Is that some means of booting Windows 98 off of a CD?

In this matter, can I use a USB stick as a FAT formatted c:\? I'm not sure what I'm talking about

You're not the only one.

mrau wrote:

i wonder why microsoft still does not help their paying customers, what a weird business model;

WTF? The overwhelming majority of their paying customers no longer deals with floppy disks at all.