When its done.

Icemann, you're too kind.

My response, if you want it so badly, code it your own damn self. 😀
Jesus, I'm turning into Harekiet.

icemann wrote:

When its done.

or WID.

Much quicker response. 😀

Originally posted by JACOBKELL When will be games with protection workt?

With the latest CVS release, some do already. Don't expect it run ALL protected-mode games for a long, long time (if ever).

I have games acid tetris,trilian and death rally and they dont wanna work. And i badly want that game working.

Yes, and everyone else has their favorite and they want their favorite to run badly. And getting your favorite to run may detract the programmers finding a way of getting their favorite to run.

So, in the end, the programmers need to do what they are doing already. Concentrate on the emulation in general, and not on getting specific games to run.

BTW, why would you need DosBox for "Death Rally"? You should be able to run it natively. If not, check it's entry the Problem Children thread.

Nicht:

Don't expect it run ALL protected-mode games for a long, long time (if ever).

Damn, why so negative, even for you?? I predict that within 1 or 2 years, DOSbox will be a fast, damn stable, very good 486 w/ DOS emulator, at least on a machine over 2ghz.

I`d agree with that considering how much dosbox has been improving over time.

Oneday I hope to play 7th Guest through it (I wouldn`t even try at the moment). Never tested it, but I have a pretty damn strong feeling that it doesn`t work in dosbox. I know I could just play the win98 version (trilobyte released a win98 executable file for it just before they went bankrupt) but still :p.

Originally posted by jez Nicht:
Damn, why so negative, even for you??

*heh*
Seriously, no PC exists that can run every title out there. Some games (*shock,horror*) don't even run properly when every possible requirement is met. It's unfair to expect DosBox to be a magic pill that will fix all problems

I predict that within 1 or 2 years, DOSbox will be a fast, damn stable, very good 486 w/ DOS emulator, at least on a machine over 2ghz.

Me, too. That still leaves hi-res SVGA Pentium titles out...

no PC exists that can run every title out there.

Ah, but that's the beauty of an emulator; you can effectively change your 'PC' with config settings until it does run $title.

Some games (*shock,horror*) don't even run properly when every possible requirement is met.

Huh? You mean, even on the developer's computer, it didn't work? Doesn't sound much like a game worth playing 😀

Originally posted by jez Ah, but that's the beauty of an emulator; you can effectively change your 'PC' with config settings until it does run $title.

*heh*
There's always one that just won't work. Hopefully, there'll be another emulator or tool to fix it.

Huh? You mean, even on the developer's computer, it didn't work?

Yep. Some are riddled by bugs. Others have faulty game logic or design or are missing pieces.

"I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" for example...Has multiple characters you control. The Gorrister character however can't be saved (literally and figuratively). Attempting to load a saved game with that character will retrieve the scene he was in...but not the character. That makes it impossible to proceed. The only way to continue the game is to play that character from his start to his finish in one sitting. The end game sequence can be played by any character but apparently can only be solved by one (and there's no hint for the player as to who that is).

Mind my french but thats pretty fucked up for a game to do that. I mean some adventure games use weird enough logic as it is, but that takes the cake.

Yep. Some are riddled by bugs. Others have faulty game logic or design or are missing pieces.

Well, then... correct emulation would include emualting those bugs. What you're basically saying is 'don't expect DOSbox to correctly emulate the PC, video and sound cards AND fix/patch any inherent bugs that may be in any given DOS game'. I don't think most people's expectations will stretch to that; just the first part 😀

And I'd say that probably 98% of DOS games will work just fine, given exactly the right system to run on.

In fact, I think that'd be a handy mission statement for DOSbox. "To provide the ability to experience all DOS software as it would have been experienced on the developer's computer."

Or something 😀

Originally posted by icemann thats pretty f**ked up for a game to do that. I mean some adventure games use weird enough logic as it is, but that takes the cake.

*heh*
These kinds of things are worth a Millyways discussion of their own. I'm willing to bet the programmers just ran out of time and were told "release it now or you're all fired". Funny part is that it's a bug within the game logic, not the engine (or is that the other way around...hrmm)...anyway the Mac version has the exact same bug. I still have a great fondness for it. Rather unique in the sense that none of the characters can really have a "happy ending" (except death).

Sometimes these things just slip through and are discovered too late. Like the people behind "Sanity: Aiken's Artifact". Did they not think that having the main character being attacked repeatedly by bad-guys off-screen would hack people off?

Still, the old text adventures (Interactive Fiction) usually are the champions for logic flaws. Still can't remember that 8-bit Adventure (wanna say "Asylum"...but that name's been used a lot) where the only way to open the door was to type CLIMB DOOR.

Originally posted by jez Well, then... correct emulation would include emualting those bugs.

*Argh*

What you're basically saying is 'don't expect DOSbox to correctly emulate the PC, video and sound cards AND fix/patch any inherent bugs that may be in any given DOS game'.

Pretty close. We also need to stipulate that it's only going to emulate a finite amount of hardware. For example the S3 Trio seems to be a good choice for video. Easily available drivers, works with UniVBE, etc... But there's always the possibility of a title just not liking the S3. As an example, Skynet hates my GeForce.

I don't think most people's expectations will stretch to that; just the first part

*heh*
Think again. We have loads of people who's DOS experiences can be summed up as "clicked on GAME.EXE in Windows 9x and it worked fine. Now I've got XP and it doesn't work anymore. why is that?"

And more will be arriving as older machines die and/are replaced/upgraded with WinXP models. Most don't understand DOS and have no desire to learn. They just want their games to work right, and if your explanation is anything but short and sweet they're going to lose patience. They want a big blue button that you can press that fixes all their problems (*heh* we all want that). We've got to be clear though...no blue button, no magic fix, no panacea is available...

And I'd say that probably 98% of DOS games will work just fine, given exactly the right system to run on.

Yeah. *heh* I need to get me one of them "exactly the right systems".

In fact, I think that'd be a handy mission statement for DOSbox. "To provide the ability to experience all DOS software as it would have been experienced on the developer's computer."

Or something

I go for the "or something".

Yeah. *heh* I need to get me one of them "exactly the right systems"

It's called 'DOSbox'!

Nicht Sehr Gut: Having used computers personally since the late 80s. I know exactly what your on about. The best you can do is emulate dos + the most widely used hardware that was out there at the time of the games release.

Getting 100% of all dos games to work would be pretty much impossible. I`d put the percentage at more around the 65-70% mark, but thats a total guess.

The only way I can think of (as I strain my memory to think back to the old 486 days where boot disks were the main way developers got their games working alot of the time) would be to possibly have a batch files directory within dosbox for the specific games which require different settings (like what the boot disks did). This would save the need for doing big changes when its just for one specific game that a quick batch file setup could fix just as easily (if thats possible?).

Originally posted by jez It's called 'DOSbox'!

Jez, your enthusiasm is overriding your logic. Try Ultima8 in DosBox, then get back with me.

Originally posted by icemann Getting 100% of all dos games to work would be pretty much impossible. I`d put the percentage at more around the 65-70% mark, but thats a total guess.

I'm thinking 85-90%, but that's also a guess.

would be to possibly have a batch files directory within dosbox for the specific games which require different settings (like what the boot disks did). This would save the need for doing big changes when its just for one specific game that a quick batch file setup could fix just as easily (if thats possible?).

Actually, that's kind of in-place already. You can set up custom configuration files and tell DosBox to use whichever one suits the game best. Type a few lines more and you can have the game starting up automatically after DosBox starts...al from a batch file.

The only way I can think of (as I strain my memory to think back to the old 486 days where boot disks were the main way developers got their games working alot of the time)

Is it any wonder that when I managed to scrounge up $500, I got an Amiga 500 instead of a PC? That very day I was listening to theme music from "Return to Atlantis" in stereo (where available...as it said on-screen). The PC didn't start to get my attention until about '92, even then I waited until late '95 to get one. Unlike what all my PC-lovin' friends had told me, it wasn't a euphoric experience.

I immediately ran into IRQ conflicts DMA mis-matches, etc... The excuse always given to me was that I had gotten the "wrong" hardware. Silly me. I had this notion that if I bought something, that it should work. Anyway, all it really did was confirm all my negative pre-conceptions about the PC. I learned because I had to learn if anything was going to work. It was the most complex, least-friendly, problem-ridden computer I ever worked with...but it was like the VHS VCR: all that mattered was that it was what someone else had at the office or home. *gah*

I still remember my first ever phone call to Tech Support at Gravis. I couldn't get any sound in DOS from my UltrasSound PnP card...at all. After two hours of busy signals, I dialed again (technically, 15 minutes after support hours were over) and finally got a technician (who had apparently answered the call out of reflex). He informed that support hours were over and asked me to call tomorrow. I was exasperated and blurted out that all I wanted was DOS audio from my sound card but I couldn't get it working...

Imagine my shock when he blurted back, "Neither can I!!". We both calmed down after that and he gave me an debug parameter that did allow for audio to work properly, but it meant always inserting this parameter for any DOS audio support.

Ok, I didn't mean to get into storytime there, but the point is that the PC is basically a huge kludge of technology, most of which originated in the 70's...and everything that came afterwards was forced to work around this architecture in order to maintain compatibility. I'm still stunned that MSoft managed to keep DOS in place all the way up to WinME. I still remember the early days of anarchy when a PC that was 60% compatible was a sellable machine. *gah*

must...stop...remembering...

Gravis Ultrasound? Hahahahah.

Maybe you should have done some research before buying a PC. Too many consomers expect stuff to 'just work', ya know. I started out with an Amstrad PC (CGA, no digital sound) then we worked up to a 486. Very rarely did I have a problem getting a game to work. Maybe that was because we had *very standard hardware*. GUS wasn't SoundBlaster-compatible, and so inevitably had problems. Glad I didn't have one.

*Kaminari hugs his monstrum Amiga 1200*