hmm yeah just looked at the specs and the mame emulation a bit, same register layout and functions. Haven't spent any other time on the emulation, might just as well use the mame emulation and get that perfected too.

Remember reading the cms used sinewave though, the mame version uses squarewaves and it has more registers that the cms didn't have for volume envelope support. So might be a somewhat changed version.

I had a MediaVision Pro Audio Spectrum... it was the first sound card I ever had. What a piece of shit! Wow!

In any case, Sound Blaster 32 == AWE32. 😀

Snover wrote:

In any case, Sound Blaster 32 == AWE32. 😀

You may be right as far as the card goes, I'm not sure what the difference is. But it was surely sold as two separate things, at the same time, too.

See?

Okay, maybe that isn't the best example. But I'm sure it was sold as two different cards. Still, it could have been the same card. *shrug*
Will have to look into it later. Maybe they're compatible.

Harekiet wrote:

hmm yeah just looked at the specs and the mame emulation a bit, same register layout and functions. Haven't spent any other time on the emulation, might just as well use the mame emulation and get that perfected too.

Remember reading the cms used sinewave though, the mame version uses squarewaves and it has more registers that the cms didn't have for volume envelope support. So might be a somewhat changed version.

Okay, I'd read rumors about it being one and the same on Google Groups.
http://google.com/groups?q=(%22C/MS%22+OR+CMS)+(SAA1099+OR+%22SAA-1099%22)&scoring=d&filter=0&num=100
http://google.com/groups?q=%22CMS+301%22&scor … ilter=0&num=100

They're saying it used square waves... and they date from the time the card was out?

Here's some CMS docs:
http://64.91.238.78/Books-Technical/win/GameB … ound%20Card.htm

Used to know a site with CMS docs to download, now I can't find it. Vlad? 😀

Ah, well, I'm still interested in these other cards, and seeing emulation of them in VDMSound or DOSBOX. For instance, the Adlib Gold used a YMF262 (OPL3). C'mon, Jarek! 😀

Stiletto wrote:

You may be right as far as the card goes, I'm not sure what the difference is. But it was surely sold as two separate things, at […]
Show full quote

You may be right as far as the card goes, I'm not sure what the difference is. But it was surely sold as two separate things, at the same time, too.

See?

.../snip/...

Okay, maybe that isn't the best example. But I'm sure it was sold as two different cards. Still, it could have been the same card. *shrug*
Will have to look into it later. Maybe they're compatible.

I have an ISA SB32 pnp, it is very similar to the SB AWE32, but it lacks a ship. I don't remember which, and I never came to know what it was doing. It was listed in the tech specs of the card, 2 years ago on Creative's Website, but I think that they got rid of the info. Anyway, I've always set SB AWE32 in my DOS games, and never had troubles/bad sound.

All of the soundcards you listed fall into one or more of the following categories:
- digital sound -> SB compatible (emulated)
- digital sound -> LPT-based (emulated)
- music -> some sort of MIDI (emulated)
- music -> OPL2/3 (partially emulated)
- music -> CMS/Tandy (more or less emulated)
- music -> GUS (already emulated)

So we're pretty much covered.

Cheers,
V.

I think the Creative SB32PnP was just an updated version of the AWE32 for PCI slots. (The AWE32 was an ISA card.)

vladr wrote:

All of the soundcards you listed fall into one or more of the following categories: - digital sound -> SB compatible (emulated) […]
Show full quote

All of the soundcards you listed fall into one or more of the following categories:
- digital sound -> SB compatible (emulated)
- digital sound -> LPT-based (emulated)
- music -> some sort of MIDI (emulated)
- music -> OPL2/3 (partially emulated)

I was going to say this, but you said it better.

- music -> CMS/Tandy (more or less emulated)

Here's where I disagree. The Tandy emulation really isn't "available". It's best application would be DosBox where it would also take care of speed issues for games from that time.

- music -> GUS (already emulated)
So we're pretty much covered.

Definitely have to disagree here as I've yet to hear of a single GUS game that will work with present emulation, just hacker-demos.

Zorbid wrote:

I have an ISA SB32 pnp...

I think that the main difference is the "pnp" drivers, ctcm and ctcu. But it's kinda pointless 😉

Don't forget that there is a Creative SB AWE 64 (in various layouts) that is Dos compatible as well. I own one and I used to get Ultima 7 to play with this card. Though I think the difference between the AWE32 and AWE64 is the same as between Audigy I/II 😀
Anyway is there one PCI card that is fully Dos compatible (e.g. without the need for EMS)?

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

I was going to say this, but you said it better.
Here's where I disagree. The Tandy emulation really isn't "available". It's best application would be DosBox where it would also take care of speed issues for games from that time.
Definitely have to disagree here as I've yet to hear of a single GUS game that will work with present emulation, just hacker-demos.

I think Tandy emulation is available in DosBox (to a certain degree) as well as (fully) in older Tandy-computer emulators.

As for the GUS emulation: when you tried them have you run the GUS TSRs and so on, and how many of these games are DOS4GW games as opposed to "regular" real-mode games?

Also, I have just updated the GUSEmu versions available in the compat DB, in case someone wants to use it for Gusemu.

V.

vladr wrote:

I think Tandy emulation is available in DosBox (to a certain degree) as well as (fully) in older Tandy-computer emulators.

I have to amend my earlier statement to use the word "useful" in it's place. The DosBox emulation does indeed work, but it really needs a Tandy video mode to go with it. Most games that use Tandy audio, want Tandy video as well.

The Tandy emulators I've come across are absolute pigs, with all the user-friendliness of the old "Bochs" emulators. Never got them to work properly.

In any case, it doesn't need to be in VDMSound.

As for the GUS emulation: when you tried them have you run the GUS TSRs and so on, and how many of these games are DOS4GW games as opposed to "regular" real-mode games?

My memory on this is somewhat blurry, but I remember doing this testing under Win98, and since I already knew how starting up a GUS game was different, I'm certain I covered all the variables. I also ran the games that supported GUS natively (no special "add-on" MIDI drivers or such) and I never got any of the setup programs to acknowledge the existence of a GUS card.

Also, the email I got back from the programmer seemed to imply that he didn't expect there to be any compatibility with GusEMU.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

In any case, it doesn't need to be in VDMSound.
My memory on this is somewhat blurry, but I remember doing this testing under Win98, and since I already knew how starting up a GUS game was different, I'm certain I covered all the variables. I also ran the games that supported GUS natively (no special "add-on" MIDI drivers or such) and I never got any of the setup programs to acknowledge the existence of a GUS card.

Also, the email I got back from the programmer seemed to imply that he didn't expect there to be any compatibility with GusEMU.

That's really too bad. Once Vlad has MT32 done, if he's not bored with VDMSound, maybe he can look into it. 😀

I still say you're wrong, though, Vlad... on some of it... I will try to take the time to report on it later, though.

Here's my first question, though: Out of that list, of all the different DAC devices (there's several), do they ALL work with your emulation? I doubt that your emulation would SOUND like them all...

Do you see what I'm saying?

Stiletto wrote:

... of all the different DAC devices (there's several), do they ALL work with your emulation? I doubt that your emulation would SOUND like them all...

I think Vlad's point on those was that it would be a lot of effort with little-to-no difference in the results. The standard rule of "diminishing returns" applies there. I'm for the GUS emulation specifically because I know there's a big difference in quality (especially music) even when not using the special "Gus MIDI" type music. I still remember how dramatically worse all my game audio became when I went from a GUS PnP to a SB Live! card.

All DAC devices AFAIK function on the same principle (digital-to-analogue converter hooked up on theparallel port). Disney SoundSource, Covox Speech Thing, etc.

V.

Stiletto wrote:

Here's my first question, though: Out of that list, of all the different DAC devices (there's several), do they ALL work with your emulation? I doubt that your emulation would SOUND like them all...

Do you see what I'm saying?

Take, for example, the MSound:

From MobyGames:
"Sound Devices Supported : MSound

The MSound was an external device that attached to the parallel port. It was more than a simple DAC, however; a DSP contained within the box could be programmed to emulate mono, stereo, or quad stereo output, up to 48KHz."

Anyhow, Nicht's right, diminishing returns. Perhaps I should prioritize that list by the number of games supported as listed by MobyGames. Not accurate, but better than nothing.

The question is, say, once OPL3 is emulated - that will give SB16 and Adlib Gold support, if you can emulate the rest of the card. But if you get ONE working, it does not follow that the other will.

Besides, there's always gonna be someone who claims his PAS16 rocked the world, or something strange. It's not up to you to code the emulation, Vlad, but emu-ALL-soundcards would be nice to see to take care of that particular situation. Besides, if it's an easy code-and-dropin, who better to write it, eh? 😉

But MT32 and GUS emulation seem high on the list...

CMS docs upload. Harekiet, take note. 😀

Wish I could remember where I found this.

Already working on changing the mame version a bit, seems to be the right thing. Can't find any information on the actual author of this specific chip emulator, but mame seems to be GPL now so should be okay to use.

GUS Emulation would be nice in dosbox too though, should look into that a bit too sometime 😀

Harekiet wrote:

GUS Emulation would be nice in dosbox too though, should look into that a bit too sometime

Oooo, that would be nice. How hard would it be to add Disney "Sound Source" emulation? Have some old titles that only have decent audio if you use the "Sound Source", but are also horribly speed-sensitive.