VOGONS


First post, by CatherineMcClarey

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I recently purchased a CD-ROM copy of Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan from Flying Buffalo (to whom the rights apparently reverted when New World Computing was acquired by 3D0). I kept my original manual, map, cluebook & installation sheet from my old floppy disk copy, but am having difficulty interpreting the installation sheet's instructions for installing this game to my hard drive. (I have both my CD-ROM drive and my DOSGAMES directory mounted within DOSBox for this.) Is there a specific directory on the CD-ROM I need to be in, in order to install this game to my hard drive? 😅

Reply 1 of 19, by ripsaw8080

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Some games are desgined to be run directly off a CD, creating config and save files in a directory on the hard disk. Don't know if that's the case with this particular game, though.

Anyway, please post a directory listing of the root directory of the CD. I think you'll get more help that way than hoping someone has the game or remembers if/how it's installed.

Reply 2 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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As requested, the directory listing for the root directory on the CD-ROM:
Volume in drive E is Tunnels & Trolls
Volume Serial Number is B86C-CF85

Directory of E:\

02/04/2011 12:25 PM <DIR> Make TNT CD
0 File(s) 0 bytes
1 Dir(s) 0 bytes free
Upon opening the "Make TNT CD" directory, one gets a list of 73 files, as follows:
Volume in drive E is Tunnels & Trolls
Volume Serial Number is B86C-CF85

Directory of e:\

02/04/2011 12:25 PM <DIR> Make TNT CD
0 File(s) 0 bytes

Directory of e:\Make TNT CD

02/04/2011 12:25 PM <DIR> .
02/04/2011 12:25 PM <DIR> ..
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 7,408 C.T
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 2,304 CGABBACK.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 4,896 CGABOBJ.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 27,120 CGACHR.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 2,696 CGACOM.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 57,453 CGAEVE.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 2,944 CGAFL2.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 1,516 CGAINPIC.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 4,608 CGAMN2.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 60,385 CGAMON1.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 20,214 CGAMON2.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 1,668 CGAOUTPI.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 2,488 CHARDISK.BAT
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 Copy of ID1
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 Copy of ID2
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 Copy of ID3
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 Copy of ID4
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 Copy of ID5
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 6,912 EGABBACK.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 9,792 EGABOBJ.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 86,664 EGACHR.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 7,513 EGACOM.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 189,536 EGAEVE.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8,832 EGAFL2.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 2,649 EGAINPIC.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 9,216 EGAMN2.PIX
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 105,933 EGAMON1.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 34,847 EGAMON2.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 2,803 EGAOUTPI.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 230,073 EVEDI.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 191,970 EVEDO.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 GCON.DAT
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 ID1
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 ID2
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 ID3
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 ID4
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 ID5
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 8 ID6
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 3,579 INSTALL.BAT
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 10,800 MNS
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 4,459 OUTMAP.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 3,712 PCS
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 25,163 PGMCOM.CC
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 7,701 TNT.EXE
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 238,635 TNTCGA.EXE
10/05/1990 06:01 PM 238,833 TNTEGA.EXE
05/18/2004 01:38 PM 13,246,110 TT_map_bottom.jpg
05/18/2004 01:09 PM 12,646,286 TT_map_top.jpg
05/18/2004 01:46 PM 3,838,291 cover.jpg
08/30/2005 02:43 PM 4,672,334 crusaders_of_khazan.pdf
05/18/2004 01:49 PM 2,723,512 interior_cover.jpg
05/18/2004 02:12 PM 2,564,749 p11.jpg
05/18/2004 01:52 PM 2,359,706 pg1.jpg
05/18/2004 02:10 PM 3,540,299 pg10.jpg
05/18/2004 02:14 PM 2,795,472 pg12.jpg
05/18/2004 02:16 PM 2,734,464 pg13.jpg
05/18/2004 02:18 PM 2,891,732 pg14.jpg
05/18/2004 02:19 PM 3,062,140 pg15.jpg
05/18/2004 02:21 PM 3,690,480 pg16.jpg
05/18/2004 02:23 PM 3,897,002 pg17.jpg
05/18/2004 02:25 PM 3,060,546 pg18.jpg
05/18/2004 02:27 PM 3,076,878 pg19.jpg
05/18/2004 01:53 PM 2,244,534 pg2.jpg
05/18/2004 02:28 PM 3,123,979 pg20.jpg
05/18/2004 02:30 PM 3,144,249 pg21.jpg
05/18/2004 02:32 PM 2,984,917 pg22.jpg
05/18/2004 01:55 PM 2,229,061 pg3.jpg
05/18/2004 01:58 PM 2,643,074 pg4.jpg
05/18/2004 02:00 PM 3,352,179 pg5.jpg
05/18/2004 02:02 PM 2,794,309 pg6.jpg
05/18/2004 02:04 PM 2,817,944 pg7.jpg
05/18/2004 02:06 PM 2,414,332 pg8.jpg
05/18/2004 02:09 PM 2,434,995 pg9.jpg
73 File(s) 102,598,992 bytes

Total Files Listed:
73 File(s) 102,598,992 bytes
3 Dir(s) 0 bytes free
Per the installation instructions from the floppy-disc version, one was to insert Disk 1 into drive A, and type INSTALL A: C: (enter). One can navigate to where the old installer program is on the CD and get it started; however, the old installer program expects you to be inserting floppy disks when prompted, and doesn't seem to understand that the complete contents of all the floppies are on the CD-ROM which Flying Buffalo burned/produced.
I have emailed Flying Buffalo about this, and expect them to get back to me sometime tomorrow.

Reply 3 of 19, by ripsaw8080

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I guess you can make a TNT folder off your DOSGAMES folder and copy the files manually, as it appears they are already in an installed form. You will only need the 1990 files on your emulated DOSBox C: drive, the more recent stuff looks like documentation. Then you can run the game like:

mount c c:\dosgames
c:
cd tnt
tnt

Reply 5 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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Sorry about not starting this thread in the right forum to start with! (It's the first time I've started a totally new thread here.)
Ripsaw8080, I might try your suggestion. I was also wondering if, since the 1990 installation program is looking for a floppy drive, if mounting the CD-ROM drive as a virtual A: drive within DOSBox would fool the installer into thinking the CD-ROM was a set of the old floppies?
(And remember, folks, this CD-ROM is indeed a legal copy, made by the company (Flying Buffalo) to whom the copyright reverted when the original publisher (New World Computing) was bought out by 3D0.)

Reply 6 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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I just tried mounting the CD-ROM drive within DOSBox as a virtual A: drive. Apparently the installer had created a TNT folder within my DOSGAMES directory when I first tried running it yesterday. However, just mounting the CD-ROM drive as a virtual A: drive within DOSBox wasn't enough to "fool" the installer, as it still kept prompting me to "insert Disk 1 and press any key." 😅

Reply 7 of 19, by ripsaw8080

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It seems likely that the install batch file uses the six ID files to know if the correct floppy is inserted. How are you mounting the CD as the A: drive? Based on what you posted for the folder name on the CD, you'd mount like:

mount a "e:\Make TNT CD" -t floppy

because the folder containing the files should be the root of the emulated A: drive. The "-t floppy" is probably not important in this case, but it's not a bad thing to get in the habit of using it when mounting an A: or B: drive.

Reply 8 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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Yes, I used:
mount a e:\ -t floppy
right after mounting my DOSGAMES directory as the C: drive within DOSBox.
I don't believe I specified the "make tnt cd" directory, because of the spaces within the directory name. However, when I changed to A: within DOSBox and then entered DIR, it showed a version of the directory name without any spaces, and I did a "change directory" to that version of the directory name.
You may well be right about the install batch file using the 6 ID files to determine if the correct floppy is inserted. I'm currently still waiting to hear from Flying Buffalo on how they recommend I proceed (since they presumably would know how to get their own computer game to run).

Reply 9 of 19, by ripsaw8080

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Why did you describe how you had (incorrectly) mounted the A: drive instead of going ahead and mounting the way I said you should? You've also ignored my suggestion to simply copy the files. I guess I was confused into thinking that you wanted help because you asked for it.

Reply 10 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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I described what I had done before seeing your advice. As to just copying the files per your other suggestion, if that is what Flying Buffalo also advises me to do, then I will do it. I regret that my not following your original suggestion immediately appears to have upset you. I'm not in a huge rush to play this game, and I'm willing to tinker a bit to find a solution that works & makes sense. If that solution is the one you've already offered, then that's what I'll use.

Reply 12 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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Who said anything about "only?" This forum is one source of advice on getting old DOS games to run; the original publishers/distributors, in those cases where they are still supporting their old games, is another. I see no problem with seeking advice from both sources, where both sources are available. I am thankful that you have been so quick to suggest a possible solution to my problem; however, my day job and other "real world" responsibilities have not yet provided me with the time to implement it yet. I will report back with the results when I've had the time to try your suggestion.

Reply 13 of 19, by wd

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"Waiting to hear from distributor" while ripsaw provided you with the relevant information reads
as if you're ignoring him, so either stick to the distributor and don't post here or stick to what
ripsaw is telling you and pos the results. Mixing things makes everything much more complicated
than necessary.

Reply 14 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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I'm sorry that you, WD, as well as RipSaw8080 seem to insist on an "either/or", single-provider method of seeking help with installing DOSBox games. I truly do not see why a "both/and" approach is not equally valid, where it is possible. As previously stated, I simply have not had the time to attempt Ripsaw8080's suggested solution yet.

I have sought help with other DOSBox games on the VOGONS forums in the past, and have hitherto found those who have responded to my questions to have been uniformly patient and gracious. As previously stated on this thread, I do appreciate and am thankful for the helpful advice I have been offered here; however, I am startled that those who have offered advice on this particular thread have been so "prickly" with those they are attempting to help.

Reply 16 of 19, by VileR

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Catherine -

the thing is that Flying Buffalo aren't even the original developers or publishers - they were handed distribution rights a decade or more down the line, but in most cases like that you shouldn't expect much in the way of technical know-how.
obviously, this varies on a case-by-case basis (for all I know, they could be writing you personalized instructions autographed by the entire original dev team as we speak). But the look of those CD contents suggest a lack of care towards the product, which is sort of typical.

Most of the active, long-running members on these forums can be trusted to be knowledgeable - i'd personally trust advice from someone like ripsaw before going to some current-rights-holder that doesn't seem to care much about the game.
Don't take this post the wrong way; this is just a bit of insight. I don't think anyone is really being prickly - it's simply the nature of the internet, since pure text communication falls short in conveying tone and intent.

[ WEB ] - [ BLOG ] - [ TUBE ] - [ CODE ]

Reply 17 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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Perhaps you're right, VileRancour; since my "day job" is in debt collection, I get way too much "prickly" from debtors (and occasionally from clients!) at work, so I'm perhaps a bit quick to perceive a less-than-gracious attitude when such was not intended.
You may or may not also be right about the Flying Buffalo people's tech support -- I have no way of knowing yet, since I have not yet heard back from them. I've enjoyed playing the pen & paper version of their FRPG quite often over the years, and some of their staff at the time (1990) did assist in developing the computer version -- but they are not a computer game company themselves, and so who knows what their tech support will be like? (When I find out, I'll report back. Just please don't bite my head off, people, for not installing TNT right this minute, when I'm at work (on my "tea break") and away from my gaming computer at home! 😅 )

Reply 18 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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Well, RipSaw8080, the Flying Buffalo staff didn't get back to me before the weekend, so I finally did as you had originally suggested and just copy/pasted all the 1990 files from the T&T CD-ROM into a TNT folder (which the vintage installer program had succeeded in creating before it hung) within my DOSGAMES folder -- and it worked! The prologue ran just fine (a very long one, with EGA graphics and no sound -- but I don't recall the game having sound back in 1990 anyway); I answered a copy protection question from the manual (if I didn't still have my paper manual from the original floppy version, I would have needed the documentation files from the CD-ROM then - but would probably have printed them out from outside DOSBOX before doing the copy/paste bit with the game proper); and was then in the start/load game screen, followed by the start of the character creation process.
Your advice once you saw the directory list from my CD-ROM was totally spot-on accurate (now that I've had the time to implement it). Perhaps the Flying Buffalo people would have eventually told me the same thing - but VOGONS was a lot quicker. Thanks so much! 😊

Reply 19 of 19, by CatherineMcClarey

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(PS for anyone else who bought a CD-ROM of T&T from Flying Buffalo: )
The copy/paste procedure RipSaw8080 recommended & I implemented was done within Windows (just have the contents of the CD-ROM open in 1 window, and an empty TNT folder within whichever folder you keep your DOS games in, in a separate window) -- so there's no need to mount the CD-ROM within DOSBox or create a virtual A: drive within DOSBox for this game. (Those are still useful things to learn how to do for other DOSBox games, of course -- just not required for this particular one.)
Thank goodness that's taken care of now!