Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 07:28

Wonderful! I look forward to trying the dx driver.

There is a fix for the dos box problem, I believe this may help - http://www.bttr-software.de/products/fix8x14/. I guess it could be loaded in config.sys (fix8x14.sys). Otherwise, it could be run manually in the 95 dos box.

Edit: btw, is it possible to turn off autorun for d-tools and then start it manually in 95? Just seeing if this is another avenue for d-tools startup.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 07:47

I switched to all-directx drivers for sb16, s3, voodoo with no new problems.
My sound corruption issue with dxdiag remains though.
dxdiag also still crashes dosbox when I close it.

BTW1, if you are occasionally getting a "while initializing ios device: windows protection fault" when rebooting windows, this will fix it:
http://www.md4pc.com/questions/41.htm

BTW2, in Win95C I never had to do any editing of resources for any devices, it was already defaulted to working settings...

-Update-
Maybe a better/safer alternative to dd from sysinternals, the makers of filemon/regmon:
http://web.archive.org/web/200010270201 ... delete.htm
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-24 @ 10:32

Since D-Tools requires IE4 (and a few other files) only for installing, then why not extract the files from the D-Tools installer and copy them to their respective directories in 95. The missing registry settings, where necessary, could be found by a comparison of the exported registries from 95 with and without D-Tools installed. This would remove nearly all requirements from a D-Tools install, given this was possible.

We should also test these abbreviated installations of D-Tools against CDs with audio (and possible those with CD copy protection); confirming whether the requirements play any role in the other functions of D-Tools.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby DosFreak » 2013-12-24 @ 11:37

Even if DOSBox supports complete CD emulation in 9x we would still have the copy protection issue to worry about which Daemon Tools fixes unless somehow support for all those copy protection emulations were added which isn't likely.

We could use an install monitor on the Daemon Tools install to track what changes it makes.

Any thoughts on VFW/WING? Quicktime as well but that may be best to leave out until it's needed whereas VFW/WING was used much more often.

IIRC VFW should be in Windows 95 by default.

"WinG DLLs were sometimes distributed with an application, at which point it merely became a matter of copying the files wing.dll, wing32.dll, wingde.dll, wingdib.drv and wngpal.wnd to the system32 directory to regain system-wide support."
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 12:37

Is there some list of games that use wing? I don't remember ever using it past win 3.x
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby DosFreak » 2013-12-24 @ 14:44

Yeah alot of 3.1x games use it. As for a list....closest would probably be my PC Game Compatibility list but I don't have a category for it. I just list the games as having an issue and then list the WING requirement in the comments field. It's significant enough to think about.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-24 @ 15:11

Better off playing 3.x games in 3.x though
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-25 @ 03:42

I tested the DX6.1 audio/video drivers in 95b and also D-tools without the USB supplement.

The DX6.1 drivers are (nearly) as good as the recommended ones. However, this is for running directx games at 640 horizontal resolution (3dfx games are unaffected). At smaller resolutions, the aspect ratio is distorted. With the recommended drivers this is not the case. Perhaps the DX6.1 drivers are better for new users as it is simple to install. Then, the other drivers could be offered as an alternative. For gaming, this should be fine in 95b.

I removed the USB supplement update in 95b and confirmed it is necessary for the installed d-tools; removing it caused an error about the virtual SCSI device. I then reinstalled the USB supplement update, uninstalled/installed d-tools, and then d-tools worked as before. However, it wasn't necessary to reinstall IE4. The "abbreviated d-tools installation" procedure saves the install/uninstall of IE4; however, the USB supplement update (and possibly Installer update) are required for 95b, at least as far as I've tested it. The abbreviated procedure (extracting CABs instead of IE4 install/uninstall) is certainly ideal in creating a minimal image size, but I wonder whether typical users would navigate the added steps.

Edit: I included a 95b installation guide at a web site shown in my signature.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby DarkTemplar » 2013-12-25 @ 11:38

Jorpho wrote:
DarkTemplar wrote:Is anyone willed to share an "ready to use" package of this?
That would be illegal.

Even though I have a legal copy of Win95 and Win98 around?
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Dominus » 2013-12-25 @ 11:59

Yes, the forum owner shouldn't come into legal hassle over something like that. If you follow the steps you can do all that yourself.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jorpho » 2013-12-26 @ 00:33

To be fair, it should be possible to write a .bat file that will assemble the package automagically starting with an install CD and a particular set of downloads.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-26 @ 01:05

Installing Win9x is not a simple matter of copying files to the correct locations (there is a lot of registry & .ini generation).
Doing everything could be written into a set of .inf files you drop into /WIN95/ along with the needed addon files...
Why reinvent the wheel (re-implement setup.exe in batch)? Some prep before setup.exe could be automated though.

That said, I think truth's guide on his site at present is a little hard to follow, at least without pictures. Using diffs instead of just outright providing infs I think doesn't improve the legality of anything, since the diffs essentially contain a large portion of the content of the source files anyways. Using extra software to mount the hdd image in the host OS is also redundant. I just did this in dosbox (~/misc contains my edited inf files):

Code: Select all
imgmount a ~/bootable_1.44m.img
imgmount c ~/hdd-2gb.img
imgmount d ~/win95c.iso -t iso
mount u ~/misc
mkdir c:\win95
a:\xcopy /e d:\win95 c:\win95
copy u:\*.inf c:\win95
mount -u d
boot -l a
<wait for boot>
c:\win95\setup
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-26 @ 03:22

That is a very insightful post on use of the dosbox commandline to install 95, especially on copying files to the disk image. I have become too reliant on osfmount and it is not ideal for a guide. I also agree that pictures are required for a proper installation guide -- my goal is less, more to record an installation procedure for further development (and for others to expand on). We also don't have much feedback yet, and this would be helpful in providing installation steps and how others are using 95 in dosbox. If we knew the games in demand, it would be simpler to tailor a guide; such as single CD games versus many CDs and ATAPI emulation versus D-tools, where the trade-off is difficulty of installation.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jorpho » 2013-12-26 @ 21:49

Jarvik7 wrote:Installing Win9x is not a simple matter of copying files to the correct locations (there is a lot of registry & .ini generation).
But as per the posts on the first page of this thread, it can be done.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-27 @ 01:59

Whose posts? The links?
I think they are doing a regular install and then deleting stuff by hand.
I tried out one of them (the smallest) but it instantly broke, as it says to delete the registry completely. It may be possible to do that, but it requires configuration, not a simple file list.

Also, you will need to be editing the MBR of the disk etc. You can't do that from a batch file in dosbox (maybe you can using DEBUG in msdos, but the dosbox command line is very primitive). Setup.exe is here to stay. Better to work within those parameters by modifying infs and maybe trying to configure a batch install.

On that note, here's the info for slipstreaming other software packages into install and automating the install:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 51402.aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 51318.aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/libr ... 51083.aspx
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby truth_deleted » 2013-12-27 @ 04:14

Modified the guide according to your batch commands. Also, found a file named "automate.inf" on the 95b cdrom, it appears very similar to the msbatch.inf. These may automate the installation process, although it would be ideal if we could also automatically select the S3 driver during setup.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-27 @ 05:47

I'll take a jab at automating it using the resource kit etc. at some point, but today is my last day of work before holidays and I'll probably be relatively busy when I get back.

I did throw my hdd image up on Google drive in case I get the urge to hack on it from home, but I'd rather be snowboarding :P.
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby DarkTemplar » 2013-12-27 @ 14:38

What about preparing a setup package then where people only need to add their Windows 95 iso to?
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jorpho » 2013-12-27 @ 20:12

Jarvik7 wrote:Also, you will need to be editing the MBR of the disk etc. You can't do that from a batch file in dosbox (maybe you can using DEBUG in msdos, but the dosbox command line is very primitive).
SYS, FORMAT, and even FDISK will get the job done.

Considering the emulated machine environment is the same in all cases, it should be possible to generate the relevant registry and .ini bits once and then do away with setup.exe, right?
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Re: Minimal install for DOSBox/95 gaming

Postby Jarvik7 » 2013-12-28 @ 01:28

Oh yeah, I guess those are on the boot disk.
As for the registry, it'll take a lot of work to make it by hand. I don't know how much of it is pregenerated on the cd.

I'll leave it up to someone else.
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